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VOUCHERS: THE PARENT TRAP
TORCH, TEXAS EAGLE FORUM | MARCH 1999 | CATHY ADANS

Posted on 07/05/2002 6:49:32 AM PDT by capecodder

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From the back issues of FR, I thought this column deserved a re-posting.

Say "no" to vouchers!!!

They are the Trojan Horse that will bring government control into private schools.

1 posted on 07/05/2002 6:49:32 AM PDT by capecodder
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To: Twodees; mc5cents; summer; clasquith
Thought you'd be interested.
2 posted on 07/05/2002 6:58:08 AM PDT by capecodder
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Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: capecodder
I think it might be a little over-reaction. The supreme court the money was constitutional because it was ultimately the parents choice where the child was going to go to school. Private schools are going to remain exactly what they are: Private. Since private schools are doing better than public school, there is no political traction to regulate them.
5 posted on 07/05/2002 7:02:06 AM PDT by rudypoot
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To: capecodder
Absolutely correct. Along with all that lovely money comes control. Private schools in the main escaped the social chaos into which America is descending.
6 posted on 07/05/2002 7:05:03 AM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS
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To: capecodder
I share these fears, however, there is one interesting counterargument. Those who make this counterargument, such as Milton Friedman, make a comparison between vouchers and foodstamps. Now...of course, there is a very negative side to this comparison; namely that vouchers are a form of welfare.

The positive aspect is that the introduction of foodstamps did not lead to more government regulation of supermarkets. This is because, according to people who hold this view, the consumer consumer controls the spending of the foodstamp. Because the consumer will also control the spending of the voucher, they conclude that same conditions (e.g. no regulation) will apply for schools.

I haven't thought of a good response to this argument.

7 posted on 07/05/2002 7:06:55 AM PDT by Austin Willard Wright
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To: capecodder
Compliance with government policy and maintenance of the status quo will assume greater and greater importance, as more workers become dependent on government-subsidized salaries.

Vouchers go to parents. Not the schools. Therefore, there can be no government involvement - separation of church and state, remember? If parents choose religious schools, the government can't get involved in their religious choices.

vote "yes" for vouchers and school choice. Shut down the indoctrination centers ASAP.
Each year thse liberal centers create thousands of indoctrobots. Only the liberals and libertarians want public schools and the lifestyles they teach. Others want the freedom from indoctrination.

Vote for parential choice. Vote for freedom. Don't let others with political motives dictate for you.

8 posted on 07/05/2002 7:08:30 AM PDT by concerned about politics
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To: rudypoot
Don't kid yourself. Look no further than the Americans With Disabilities Act for evidence of Fedgov meddling. Under that, private companies with no government contracts, no wheelchair bound employees, and no wheelchair bound clients were forced to make their facilities wheelchar accessable. Why wouldn't the government try to dictate to private schools once they control the purse-strings?
9 posted on 07/05/2002 7:11:35 AM PDT by Dakmar
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To: capecodder
Private, religious schools are founded upon and run according to a mission. Most are doing fine, right now, without voucher students. These schools do not need a couple thousand more dollars a year from a couple voucher students. Private schools will simply not accept voucher students if the government tried in any way to control them or make them change their rules.

I firmly believe that this argument against vouchers was started and fostered by the NEA as a scare tactic. Its seems reasonable at first since government always wants control. But you must understand the nature of private schools - they are private because they do not want government control. Vouchers will not change this.

10 posted on 07/05/2002 7:12:58 AM PDT by FreeTally
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To: capecodder
The problem I have with many conservatives is their willingness to sacrifice the attainable better for some currently unreachable best. This always leaves us mired firmly in the worst, kept there by not only liberals but also our own purist members.

Say Yes to Vouchers! It is better then what we have.

a.cricket
11 posted on 07/05/2002 7:13:12 AM PDT by another cricket
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To: capecodder
Here's the choice. Public schools remain as they are and parents are held hostage, or school choice to escape the Satanic minions.
Opposition to vouchers and school choice are those who dictate the choice for you.
I feel parents should be free to choose the school they want their children to go to. Opposition denies parents their freedom via laws, propaganda, and legislation.

Choose thou, whom will you serve? Forced imprisonment by the dictators, or freedom?

12 posted on 07/05/2002 7:15:02 AM PDT by concerned about politics
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To: concerned about politics
Vouchers go to parents. Not the schools. Therefore, there can be no government involvement - separation of church and state, remember? If parents choose religious schools, the government can't get involved in their religious choices.

I'm glad to see others understand the issue. There are several reasons why vouchers will not mean government control of private schools. Like I posted above, I believe this is a NEA scare tactic.

13 posted on 07/05/2002 7:15:35 AM PDT by FreeTally
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To: capecodder
The bottom line is: Vouchers would cause the demise of private schools because they cannot compete with what some parents will perceive as "free" schools. And government regulation will force them to be like public schools.

Vouchers would grant the government the "right" to collect your money and redistribute it to the more needy or dictate where and how you spend it by granting you a voucher. Collecting taxes and redistributing them is socialism.

Vouchers will cause private school tuition to escalate as witnessed by the sharp increase in public college tuition after the GI Bill was passed in 1943. Fewer parents would be able to afford true private schools.

Vouchers would politicize private schools the same way as public schools. Dr. Gary North, president of The Institute for Christian Economics, describes how voters/parents have consented to a system that rewards educational bureaucrats rather than serving parents as consumers with legal authority over their children. The chief losers of the political scheme are the students.

Vouchers would methodically expunge religion from private school curricula. George Bernard Shaw of The Socialist Fabian Society of England frankly stated, "Nothing will more quickly destroy independent Christian schools than state aid; their freedom and independence will soon be compromised, and before long their faith."

I fail to understand how vouchers will bring this about. Perhaps someone could explain the actual mechanics by which parents using vouchers to send kids to the schools of their choice will cause the above?

14 posted on 07/05/2002 7:17:22 AM PDT by Starwind
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To: Austin Willard Wright
Supreme Court decisions carry a lot of weight, wouldn't you agree?

Regulations always follow government funding.

Here's the start of a list of likely hypothetical scenarios: How long before a civil rights suit v. private school that doesn't accept a student with a voucher?

How long before the government requires certain accrediation of schools accepting vouchers? What about teacher training? What about hiring practices and civil rights?... _________

Source: Berit Kjos

http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/Q-A/charter.htm

Vouchers & Charter Schools

Question: What do you think of vouchers and charter schools? Are you for or against them?

Answer: I can best answer your question with a quote from the glossary in Brave New Schools and the corresponding footnotes. Those who have my book can find these at the end of the footnote section in the appendix. The "strings" attached to vouchers apply all the more to charter schools, which also release the state from many laws that protect parents:

VOUCHERS: Tuition credits used by parents to pay for their child's education in a private school of their choice. The catch: any school accepting these vouchers must conform to national goals and standards. "A simple fact of political life is that public regulation follows money.... Private schools that operate with public money will be subject to public regulations...." "Changes, big changes, are needed," wrote Albert Shanker, President of the American Federation of Teachers. "...it may be that we can't get the big changes we need without choice."

In March, 1984, the U.S. Supreme court ruled that private schools are subject to government regulations even if they receive no direct federal funds. The Court ruled six to three that a private school may be held accountable for federal rules because it enrolls students who receive tuition money from the government. Even though the checks are payable to individual students, not the school, the Court said any scholarships, loans, or grants to students "constitute federal financial assistance to that entity." The opinion, written by Justice Buron R.White, found that the language of the law "contains no hint that Congress perceived a substantive difference between direct institutional assistance and aid received by a school through its student."

On March 22, 1988, P.L. 100-259 became the law of the land. "The measure would extend the reach of four civil right measures that were limited by a 1984 U.S. Supreme court ruling, Grove City College v. Bell. The ruling said that only the 'program or activity' of an entity receiving federal funds, not the entire institution, was covered by anti-discrimination laws. The legislation would reverse the ruling and make it clear that the entire institution must not discriminate if any component receives federal aid." (Congressional Quarterly Weekly, p. 774) Cited by Virginia Birt Baker, "Educational 'Choice'" Free World Research Report, March 1993.

15 posted on 07/05/2002 7:22:02 AM PDT by capecodder
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To: Starwind; FreeTally; another cricket
Please see post #15.
16 posted on 07/05/2002 7:26:10 AM PDT by capecodder
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To: another cricket
Making K-12 education payments a full tax deduction might be a better solution. Any temporary solution to end the current system works for me though.
17 posted on 07/05/2002 7:27:17 AM PDT by listenhillary
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To: Starwind
I fail to understand how vouchers will bring this about. Perhaps someone could explain the actual mechanics by which parents using vouchers to send kids to the schools of their choice will cause the above?

Talk about spin and scare tactics. There is no explanation. Propagada never has much logic.

18 posted on 07/05/2002 7:28:34 AM PDT by concerned about politics
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To: capecodder
"contains no hint that Congress perceived a substantive difference between direct institutional assistance and aid received by a school through its student."

I don't think vouchers meet this criteria:
1) voucher money is a return to the parent what the parent had been paying in taxes.
2) As someone above noted it is more like foodstamps. Grocery stores accepting food stamps are not regulated.

The key distinction is that parents are exercising there choice as to how to spend their money (rebated through vouchers), not the school or government. The student is not a conduit for government funds in this case. The funds belong to the parent, not the government.

19 posted on 07/05/2002 7:34:52 AM PDT by Starwind
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To: Austin Willard Wright
Because the consumer will also control the spending of the voucher, they conclude that same conditions (e.g. no regulation) will apply for schools.

There is one flaw in your example, the government doesn't have a monoply to protect in the grocery industry.

20 posted on 07/05/2002 7:36:02 AM PDT by c-b 1
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