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Could Mr. Right be white? [Black women choosing white men]
Atlanta Journal-Constitution ^ | 7/13/2

Posted on 07/13/2002 4:41:51 PM PDT by NativeNewYorker

"No, she didn't. . . ."

Natasha Bailey hears the whispered scorn. She spots the dirty looks on the streets. She listens to the lectures from her friends.

The 23-year-old Bailey is an ebony-hued woman with dreads, a baby doll voice and a love of African culture so strong that she joined a West African rites of passage society.

But she's a traitor to some because she's dating Jason Walker, a 22-year-old white man. How could she, her friends ask, given how white men have treated black people.

"I'm the first one to say, OK, let's look at the history," the Atlanta resident says. "But to take that and put that on a person that's right here and now, I can't do that. That's unfair to that person. I judge them as they come."

Bailey represents a quiet revolution taking place among some black women. For years, they've complained about the shortage of eligible black men. Now they're no longer content to vent on "Oprah." If Mr. Right happens to be white, more are willing to cross the color line.

"I'm not going to sit on a porch in a rocking chair, all alone at 80 years old because of color," says Wanda Dunn, a 37-year-old Stone Mountain Web designer. "I don't see it as a turning away from black men but as expanding my options."

When it comes to interracial dating, people have traditionally focused on the taboo nature of black men dating white women. Yet statistics show that more black women are becoming involved with white men.

According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the number of black female/white male marriages remained relatively static between 1960 and 1980, increasing from 26,000 to 27,000. But by 2000, the number had jumped to 80,000.

Images of black women pairing with white men are now common in popular culture as well. Commercials and music videos are full of such couples. Halle Berry recently won an Oscar for her controversial role in "Monster's Ball," a film in which she plays a waitress who becomes involved with a white man. Berry also played the girlfriend of a white man in another film, "Swordfish." And Angela Basset played the girlfriend of Robert De Niro in "The Score."

Changing the script

The reasons driving black women to flip the dating script are varied. Some of it is simple exposure. Social divisions along color lines remain, but they aren't as rigid. Black women find themselves more in contact with white men in school, at the office and in social settings.

Janice Flowers is the Atlanta coordinator with Pre-Dating Events, a national company that schedules mixers for professionals. She says more black women are telling her that they're willing to date white men.

"Because we're so used to seeing them in social situations, it's becoming less of a taboo," she says.

The reason most often cited, though, for the change in dating attitudes is demographics. A disproportionate number of black men are in jail, or are murder victims. One in every 20 black men older than 18 is in prison, the 2000 Human Rights Watch report concluded. Black teenage males are seven times more likely to be murdered than white teenage males, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported.

The result is that black women face a marriage squeeze. According to the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies in Washington, the percentage of black women who are married declined from 62 percent in 1950 to 36 percent in 2000.

Melanie Robinson, 29, says many black men know the numbers favor them so they have less incentive to treat a black woman well.

"They have their options, so they can pick and choose," the Marietta resident says. "I've just found that there is a lack of appreciation of black women in Atlanta. We come a dime a dozen here."

Robinson, who has dated three white men, says they're more romantic and willing to go on dates like walking in the park or visiting a museum.

"I haven't found any black men trying to take me to the museum," she says. "I wish they would make an effort other than, 'Let's go and have a drink' or 'Let's go to the Red Lobster for all-you-can-eat crab legs on Monday.' "

Another complaint about black men involves insecurity. Black beauty-shop conversations ring with the same complaints from black women who say many black men can't handle an independent, professional black woman who often has more formal education than they do.

At least 60 percent of blacks who get awarded college degrees are women, according to the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education.

Flowers, the Atlanta coordinator with Pre-Dating Events, says a black man backed out of a relationship with her after she purchased a home and he learned that she had a college degree, something he had not earned.

"He said I didn't need him," she says. "It blew me away. I never could get him to see that [his lack of a college degree] was not a hindrance to me."

Black men have traditionally shrugged off these criticisms from black women, saying they are too demanding or obsessed with status and money.

"Even though the numbers may be in Atlanta men's favor, that doesn't make black women in Atlanta any less choosy," says Keith Aikens, a 36-year-old single black man. "Men still have to do a lot to prove themselves worthy."

Aikens, of College Park, says he sympathizes with black women who complain black men don't take them on cultural outings, such as to a museum.

"On the other hand," he says, "how many women are suggesting a museum instead of simply giving in and moving on to the next guy?"

Not an easy road

Once black women begin dating white men, though, hurdles remain. Many of them are internal.

Some wonder if a white man can really understand them, and the effects of racism. Will they draw a blank stare at the first mention of P-funk, nappy hair and playing the dozens?

Bailey has sifted through those fears with Walker and concluded they're overrated. She's had in-depth discussions about slavery, the light skin vs. dark skin caste system among blacks -- all with Walker, a white man.

"I've dated a lot of black men and they don't understand me, either," says Bailey, who is a published writer and a temp worker. "It's all about what you've read, what you've studied. I've dated people who have no understanding of the Middle Passage, colorism, any sort of understanding of the black experience. And they were black."

Sometimes, Bailey added, the fact that a white man is an outsider can be an asset. Often black men succumb to European ideas of beauty, but not her boyfriend. Once, she says, Walker turned to her while she was reading and said, "Your hair looks so beautiful."

"He pierced through my fears and my issues that have to do with blackness," she says. "From my past dealings with brothers, Jason has been more willing and open to see that I am beautiful as is."

Despite the harassment they sometimes get, Bailey says most people don't give her a problem when she accompanies her boyfriend in public.

"We'll get an occasional nasty look, but for the next two looks we get like that, we get a lot of those, 'Oh, look, a happy couple,' " Bailey says.

Yet Robinson, the Marietta resident, voices a fear that black women often have with dating white men. They wonder if white men's interest in dating is driven by sexual curiosity.

"White guys find us exotic," she says. "They want to know how we [have sex], but they aren't going to take us home."

Bailey, however, doesn't worry about those sexual stereotypes driving her relationship with Walker.

"The gist of it is, if we remove sex, we still work," she says about their relationship.

Walker, a computer programmer, says that dating a black woman has made him more sensitive. He often attends reggae clubs with Bailey where he is the only white person in the room.

"It's different being the odd man out," he says. "Actually, what goes through my mind is, I wonder if that's what it's like for her being on the other side of the table."

Even after black women have taken the big step and married a white man, some still wrestle with a residue of guilt. Nicole Smith, a Los Angeles actress, has been married to a white man since 1999. She and her husband, Geoff Cunningham, made a movie about interracial dating, "Rocky Road."

Smith says her sister threatened to never speak to her again after she heard about the marriage. Now her sister has changed after seeing how well her marriage works.

"My sister said that she dreams of having a relationship like ours," Smith says. "That was huge."

Still, Smith sometimes questions if she's being true to her black identity. "I question how much of a conscious black woman I am," she says. "I always keep that dialogue going."

Bailey doesn't appear to have those questions now. She's in love. She says she's decided that compatibility, not color, is what's ultimately important in her relationship.

"I've always understood that you can love your heritage and live your heritage," she says. "But that doesn't mean you close off the rest of the world, especially when you're dealing with matters of love."


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: darwin; race
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To: goldstategop
On the other hand, I rarely have seen black white couples in commercials. In fact, the selection process for commercials seems to be anything but color blind!
121 posted on 07/14/2002 10:27:03 AM PDT by Austin Willard Wright
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To: mafree
Thanks for your reply, mafree. It's an interesting topic.
122 posted on 07/14/2002 10:43:40 AM PDT by summer
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To: Mamzelle
I do notice a lot of guys of all races quite besotted with Asian dolls. So much so that the Asian girls have become quite the demanding, high-maintenance pricesses...I watch this at close range with great amusement...

I became "besotted" with an Asian princess about 13 years ago. Married since '91, two kids!

Maintenance-wise, let's just say... the bar is rising.

Wasn't it Yoko Ono who once said something like "the solution to racism is for everybody to make love to everybody until we're all the same color." One of those sayings of hers that had an odd ring of truth to it, even if somewhat loopy.

Amazing to me that I am personally involved in the experimental testing of her assertion.

(steely)

123 posted on 07/14/2002 11:05:41 AM PDT by Steely Tom
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To: Steely Tom
My perspective is with the cuties on campus. Their phones ring off the hook...and they've become correspondingly hard to get. So, if you've got girls, and they're svelte, they'll be chasing 'em away with a stick. Or not. (g)
124 posted on 07/14/2002 11:28:01 AM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: NativeNewYorker
But by 2000, the number had jumped to 80,000.

80001. The wife and I put "American" in the ethnic box on our census.

5.56mm

125 posted on 07/14/2002 11:33:47 AM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: wattsmag2
Klingon pain sticks?
126 posted on 07/14/2002 11:36:59 AM PDT by NativeNewYorker
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To: Mamzelle
If W men are commitment-terrified with W women, do you think they'll have more commitment with a black woman? I wonder if the men aren't going where they think a marriage tradition is very weak, and won't feel pressured...

Thinking Machiavellian, perhaps the white men assume black women will be LESS inclined to divorce/strip-mine them down the road.

I've talked to women, black and white, about their relationships with black men, and they are uniformly enraged by what they characterize as a soul-less, alley cat mentality.

Perhaps white men, with evidence of looting cauc women, and black women, with evidence of philandering black men, are naturally suited to be partners.

127 posted on 07/14/2002 11:43:15 AM PDT by NativeNewYorker
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To: Mamzelle
Fascinating thread. In the NY area, white women with black men, dating, as well as married, are fairly common. However, it is also true that most of these women are politically very liberal, often have been married before, and not what you would describe as attractive. I've nothing against plain women, per se, beauty comes from within, but in a competitive dating environment, it would seem that many black men are availing themselves of the financial security that these successful white women can offer...
128 posted on 07/14/2002 11:44:27 AM PDT by ken5050
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To: Mamzelle
To be honest, white and mixed race American women (on average) are the most beautiful women on the planet I think. However most guy's bottom line is a desire for a great lover which doesn't exactly fit the persona of most American females due mainly to the what they're currently being taught.

Asian women have more respect for a man and appreciate what you do for them more than American women. Most American women think you owe them something and you're lucky to even get a thank you from one.

Likewise I think Black women are tired of being used and abused. I've wondered how long it would take them to get tired of being called hoes and bitches.

Basicaly men are men and women are women no matter your race, greed or color. It has more to do with the way you're raised and a little thing called r-e-s-p-e-c-t and you're right about love conquering all!

129 posted on 07/14/2002 12:51:42 PM PDT by FireTrack
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To: Mamzelle
Mamzelle is somewhat on target. In Philly, the traditional Asian stereotype seemed to hold true--non-materialistic, family-oriented, loyal, etc.

Going to Michigan was like discovering a new world. Unless the girls were FOBs or were raised strictly by the old-world culture, the Asian girls seemed MORE materialistic than white girls. Heck, the one I'm dating now went through a similar stage awhile back, but at least she learned it was a soulless existence, being a trophy girl for some Asian dude with nice clothes, car, but no emotional attachments.

So, definitely Asian-AMERICAN girls are getting pretty bad.
130 posted on 07/14/2002 1:13:53 PM PDT by Skywalk
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To: Skywalk
The one Asian lady that I know best, has only been in America from China for 3 years now. She studied English in a Chinese university. She is the most intelligent, caring, honest, thoughtful and beautiful woman (looks and personality) that I've every had the joy of getting to know.

I don't see her ever becoming materialistic. But then again she was not raised here and bombarded constantly with commercials and etc.

131 posted on 07/14/2002 1:43:23 PM PDT by FireTrack
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To: ken5050
"...it would seem that many black men are availing themselves of the financial security that these successful white women can offer..."

That seems to be a high price for a status symbol.

132 posted on 07/14/2002 1:45:51 PM PDT by Don Myers
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To: FireTrack
I have nothing against a woman dressing well(classy not slutty) and taking pride in her appearance, but it has gotten to a point with many Asians I have seen/know that all they have is their newest cell phone/plan, car and clothes and I'm not kidding, that's it.

This isn't to say ALL, by any stretch, just that Mamzelle is telling the truth about many of the younger ones these days(though they're still more apt to be loyal than the white girls I've seen, at least they've got that)
133 posted on 07/14/2002 1:50:49 PM PDT by Skywalk
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To: Skywalk
Actually, the first thing I noticed about the lady I mentioned WAS how well she was dressed... LOL I thought she must have lot's of money and I was out of my league.

I found out later that I couldn't have been more wrong about her. She just happens to know what looks good. She does buy designer clothes and etc. however she takes very good care of them and they last her for years.

She rarely goes "shopping" and as an example, She has every watch that was ever given to her (about six) and you can't tell the old ones from the new ones.

I don't know about you, but I don't mind buying someone things who will take care of them.

I'm sure Mamzelle knows what she is talking about when it comes to the younger "Americanized" crowd though.

134 posted on 07/14/2002 2:15:23 PM PDT by FireTrack
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To: RightWhale
Yeah! I think black and white are silly distinctions, anyway. I've never seen anyone either black or white -- we're all just varying shades of brown. Heck, I myself am varying shades of brown -- pinkish brown with lots of darker brown speckles.
135 posted on 07/14/2002 3:56:39 PM PDT by ellery
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To: MinorityRepublican
There's a great book that talks about why some groups have had more luck than others in terms of long-term stability, etc. It's called Guns, Germs and Steel -- if you can get past the sometimes mind-numbing detail on early agriculture (I skimmed that part:-)), it's a great read.
136 posted on 07/14/2002 4:00:21 PM PDT by ellery
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To: arm958
Not to mention "driving while black" -- one of my friends in college was one of the most straight-arrow, ambitious and intelligent guys I've ever met. He also happened to be black, and he drove a BMW. The guy routinely got stopped several times in one drive from Cleveland to Pittsburgh. He was philosophical about it and didn't complain -- but I was FURIOUS! The widespread victim mentality we all deplore doesn't negate the discrimination people still face...
137 posted on 07/14/2002 4:06:20 PM PDT by ellery
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To: GreatOne
I dunno -- I have three, count 'em, three cousins in their late teens/early 20s who have out of wedlock children. In two cases, we're talking two kids each with two different partners. This is a pasty, Irish-Catholic family -- I think it may be (sadly) what some kids do these days, regardless of race.

138 posted on 07/14/2002 4:14:28 PM PDT by ellery
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To: NativeNewYorker
Usually fat, ugly blondes, though.
139 posted on 07/14/2002 4:56:47 PM PDT by Phillip Augustus
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To: Phillip Augustus
Defintely the second string.
140 posted on 07/14/2002 5:06:23 PM PDT by NativeNewYorker
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