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Could Mr. Right be white? [Black women choosing white men]
Atlanta Journal-Constitution ^ | 7/13/2

Posted on 07/13/2002 4:41:51 PM PDT by NativeNewYorker

"No, she didn't. . . ."

Natasha Bailey hears the whispered scorn. She spots the dirty looks on the streets. She listens to the lectures from her friends.

The 23-year-old Bailey is an ebony-hued woman with dreads, a baby doll voice and a love of African culture so strong that she joined a West African rites of passage society.

But she's a traitor to some because she's dating Jason Walker, a 22-year-old white man. How could she, her friends ask, given how white men have treated black people.

"I'm the first one to say, OK, let's look at the history," the Atlanta resident says. "But to take that and put that on a person that's right here and now, I can't do that. That's unfair to that person. I judge them as they come."

Bailey represents a quiet revolution taking place among some black women. For years, they've complained about the shortage of eligible black men. Now they're no longer content to vent on "Oprah." If Mr. Right happens to be white, more are willing to cross the color line.

"I'm not going to sit on a porch in a rocking chair, all alone at 80 years old because of color," says Wanda Dunn, a 37-year-old Stone Mountain Web designer. "I don't see it as a turning away from black men but as expanding my options."

When it comes to interracial dating, people have traditionally focused on the taboo nature of black men dating white women. Yet statistics show that more black women are becoming involved with white men.

According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the number of black female/white male marriages remained relatively static between 1960 and 1980, increasing from 26,000 to 27,000. But by 2000, the number had jumped to 80,000.

Images of black women pairing with white men are now common in popular culture as well. Commercials and music videos are full of such couples. Halle Berry recently won an Oscar for her controversial role in "Monster's Ball," a film in which she plays a waitress who becomes involved with a white man. Berry also played the girlfriend of a white man in another film, "Swordfish." And Angela Basset played the girlfriend of Robert De Niro in "The Score."

Changing the script

The reasons driving black women to flip the dating script are varied. Some of it is simple exposure. Social divisions along color lines remain, but they aren't as rigid. Black women find themselves more in contact with white men in school, at the office and in social settings.

Janice Flowers is the Atlanta coordinator with Pre-Dating Events, a national company that schedules mixers for professionals. She says more black women are telling her that they're willing to date white men.

"Because we're so used to seeing them in social situations, it's becoming less of a taboo," she says.

The reason most often cited, though, for the change in dating attitudes is demographics. A disproportionate number of black men are in jail, or are murder victims. One in every 20 black men older than 18 is in prison, the 2000 Human Rights Watch report concluded. Black teenage males are seven times more likely to be murdered than white teenage males, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported.

The result is that black women face a marriage squeeze. According to the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies in Washington, the percentage of black women who are married declined from 62 percent in 1950 to 36 percent in 2000.

Melanie Robinson, 29, says many black men know the numbers favor them so they have less incentive to treat a black woman well.

"They have their options, so they can pick and choose," the Marietta resident says. "I've just found that there is a lack of appreciation of black women in Atlanta. We come a dime a dozen here."

Robinson, who has dated three white men, says they're more romantic and willing to go on dates like walking in the park or visiting a museum.

"I haven't found any black men trying to take me to the museum," she says. "I wish they would make an effort other than, 'Let's go and have a drink' or 'Let's go to the Red Lobster for all-you-can-eat crab legs on Monday.' "

Another complaint about black men involves insecurity. Black beauty-shop conversations ring with the same complaints from black women who say many black men can't handle an independent, professional black woman who often has more formal education than they do.

At least 60 percent of blacks who get awarded college degrees are women, according to the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education.

Flowers, the Atlanta coordinator with Pre-Dating Events, says a black man backed out of a relationship with her after she purchased a home and he learned that she had a college degree, something he had not earned.

"He said I didn't need him," she says. "It blew me away. I never could get him to see that [his lack of a college degree] was not a hindrance to me."

Black men have traditionally shrugged off these criticisms from black women, saying they are too demanding or obsessed with status and money.

"Even though the numbers may be in Atlanta men's favor, that doesn't make black women in Atlanta any less choosy," says Keith Aikens, a 36-year-old single black man. "Men still have to do a lot to prove themselves worthy."

Aikens, of College Park, says he sympathizes with black women who complain black men don't take them on cultural outings, such as to a museum.

"On the other hand," he says, "how many women are suggesting a museum instead of simply giving in and moving on to the next guy?"

Not an easy road

Once black women begin dating white men, though, hurdles remain. Many of them are internal.

Some wonder if a white man can really understand them, and the effects of racism. Will they draw a blank stare at the first mention of P-funk, nappy hair and playing the dozens?

Bailey has sifted through those fears with Walker and concluded they're overrated. She's had in-depth discussions about slavery, the light skin vs. dark skin caste system among blacks -- all with Walker, a white man.

"I've dated a lot of black men and they don't understand me, either," says Bailey, who is a published writer and a temp worker. "It's all about what you've read, what you've studied. I've dated people who have no understanding of the Middle Passage, colorism, any sort of understanding of the black experience. And they were black."

Sometimes, Bailey added, the fact that a white man is an outsider can be an asset. Often black men succumb to European ideas of beauty, but not her boyfriend. Once, she says, Walker turned to her while she was reading and said, "Your hair looks so beautiful."

"He pierced through my fears and my issues that have to do with blackness," she says. "From my past dealings with brothers, Jason has been more willing and open to see that I am beautiful as is."

Despite the harassment they sometimes get, Bailey says most people don't give her a problem when she accompanies her boyfriend in public.

"We'll get an occasional nasty look, but for the next two looks we get like that, we get a lot of those, 'Oh, look, a happy couple,' " Bailey says.

Yet Robinson, the Marietta resident, voices a fear that black women often have with dating white men. They wonder if white men's interest in dating is driven by sexual curiosity.

"White guys find us exotic," she says. "They want to know how we [have sex], but they aren't going to take us home."

Bailey, however, doesn't worry about those sexual stereotypes driving her relationship with Walker.

"The gist of it is, if we remove sex, we still work," she says about their relationship.

Walker, a computer programmer, says that dating a black woman has made him more sensitive. He often attends reggae clubs with Bailey where he is the only white person in the room.

"It's different being the odd man out," he says. "Actually, what goes through my mind is, I wonder if that's what it's like for her being on the other side of the table."

Even after black women have taken the big step and married a white man, some still wrestle with a residue of guilt. Nicole Smith, a Los Angeles actress, has been married to a white man since 1999. She and her husband, Geoff Cunningham, made a movie about interracial dating, "Rocky Road."

Smith says her sister threatened to never speak to her again after she heard about the marriage. Now her sister has changed after seeing how well her marriage works.

"My sister said that she dreams of having a relationship like ours," Smith says. "That was huge."

Still, Smith sometimes questions if she's being true to her black identity. "I question how much of a conscious black woman I am," she says. "I always keep that dialogue going."

Bailey doesn't appear to have those questions now. She's in love. She says she's decided that compatibility, not color, is what's ultimately important in her relationship.

"I've always understood that you can love your heritage and live your heritage," she says. "But that doesn't mean you close off the rest of the world, especially when you're dealing with matters of love."


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: darwin; race
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To: SamAdams76
the resulting hiring quotas that come with it continue to perpetuate racial tension, especially when a better qualified white person is passed over for a job in order for a hiring quota to be made
As Sowell points out, if 10 whites are passed over to give one black the job, you have ten who feel aggrieved even tho only one could have had the job.

81 posted on 07/13/2002 11:34:23 PM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion
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To: SamAdams76
We are not going to end racism in this country until we treat everybody equally

Some of the black guys I've worked with have told me about their frustration with being routinely followed around stores by security people. It's gotta suck when you are treated like a two bit shoplifter when you are actually an Army Lietenant Colonel and war veteran (as one of the guys who relayed his woes to me is).

82 posted on 07/13/2002 11:37:11 PM PDT by arm958
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To: NativeNewYorker
This is interesting when one considers that the demographic group that's historically had the greatest anger about Black men dating White women has been Black women. They were far more likely to label as a "race traitor" a Black man seeing women outside of his race.
83 posted on 07/13/2002 11:50:11 PM PDT by Redcloak
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To: EaglesUpForever
I had the experience of attending a HS reunion back in about 1960, and noticed that the sole black in attendance was alone. I asked her to dance, and felt like 100% of the eyes in the room were on us. That was then, maybe this is now. But the legacy of racism is a tough problem, no doubt.

Found out five years ago that 10% of our class had passed on--and that she was among them, unfortunately. They say that Social Security is an even worse deal for blacks due to lower life expectancy, and the (sparse) statistics of our class fit that pattern . . .

84 posted on 07/13/2002 11:58:12 PM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion
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To: Bear_in_RoseBear
Hmmm ... I guess we were stared at on my first visit to the U.P.?

I didn't notice ... I was preoccupied with a certain lumberjack ...

But, seriously, I don't notice most stares. I do find, though, that if we go to a restaurant twice, the wait staff remembers us the third time! And I can only remember once when black people expressed any disdain, and I turned my nose back up at them. I'm too old for that silliness.

85 posted on 07/14/2002 12:37:25 AM PDT by Rose in RoseBear
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To: the_right_way
No, not just Alabama trend at all, my friend.

No matter where I've been, the white women with black men all seem to be one of the following:

1)wanna-be gangstas/black. They get their hair done to mimic black styles, they speak "ebonics" and end up with kids out of wedlock

2)FAT FAT FAT. Sheesh, I've seen some good looking black guys with some FAT white women. Damn, find yourself a skinny Asian girl, bruh, what the hell are you doin?!

3)Myth-chasers/parent-scandalizers. So intent on proving their liberal worldview, or believing in a different level of sexuality existing in blacks, they chase melanin-abundants with gusto.

4)Some combination of two or more of these elements.

My friends and I(black, mixed in my case) are disgusted with most of these women as our individuality as intelligent, freedom-loving, hockey-playing(at least my one friend) MEN is overlooked for some stereotype. Funny how no one ever tries to act black by imitating Benjamin Banneker, Charles Drew or Morgan Freeman. And few black men-chasers date anything EXCEPT black men. With a lot of the guys I know who date interracially they keep their options OPEN, not closed like these women.

What's bizarre is my experience in Seattle. While white men/Asian women is fairly common everywhere I've lived, I have NEVER seen so many black women with white men. Granted the black population of King County is something like 5 percent, but still it's been a new sight for me. Other infrequent combinations are also more common here.
86 posted on 07/14/2002 1:25:08 AM PDT by Skywalk
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To: arm958
(somewhat off-topic)
I work in retail security, and while I feel for those who are followed simply because of race, our company absolutely stresses surveillance based on suspicious BEHAVIORS(such as quickly selecting items without checking price or specs, out of season clothing etc) I'm biracial, but I have no problem telling you that blacks make up a disproportionate number of the incidents/apprehensions in our district. Now this doesn't mean we haven't caught 15 year old white girls(actually this is something to look for, teen girls often shoplift) but that for a county where blacks make up 5 percent of the populace, they account for more than their 'fair share.'

We've also had a shoplifter(known and arrested) confront our undercover person with charges of racism. Meanwhile, he was stealing hundreds of dollars worth of stuff once a week. I find it difficult sometimes to follow a black person because of potential accusations. Not to mention the time I was merely waiting for a cashier to finish a transaction and the guy(to his credit calmly and kindly) questioned my motivation for waiting near the cashier and wondering if it was due to his race. He was actually nice, but it makes one wary of even walking down the same aisle as a black person, for fear of the accusations.
87 posted on 07/14/2002 1:36:36 AM PDT by Skywalk
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To: Skywalk
It sounds like you are very professional. I do realize that there is another side to the story. While it must be frustrating for law-abiding blacks to be followed simply for being black (by those less professional than you), the statistics don't lie. To those law-abiding blacks I say: Blame profiling if you want, but you must place equal blame on blacks who commit crimes far out of proportion to their representation in society.
88 posted on 07/14/2002 2:02:56 AM PDT by arm958
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To: Go Gordon
Well, I was taught that the world is not so 'black and white', some were sold, and some were just, ah, poached so to speak from a coastal area...
89 posted on 07/14/2002 2:19:33 AM PDT by Unassuaged
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To: NativeNewYorker
"I've dated a lot of black men and they don't understand me, either," says Bailey, who is a published writer and a temp worker. "It's all about what you've read, what you've studied. I've dated people who have no understanding of the Middle Passage, colorism, any sort of understanding of the black experience. And they were black."

If you pick at a scab every day, you will have it forever.

90 posted on 07/14/2002 2:27:28 AM PDT by FairWitness
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To: NativeNewYorker
One thing you have to notice about black women is that they do come in these 6' sizes and can still walk and chew gum at the same time...
91 posted on 07/14/2002 2:37:03 AM PDT by medved
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To: chasio649
Chasio,

You want to know why that is? All you have to do is just turn on your TV and you will get the answer. White women and girls are getting the Nicole Brown Syndrome just by watching the crap on TV. White gals are just doing it, to stand out and black guys do it just to "Taint". That is a fact.

92 posted on 07/14/2002 2:43:21 AM PDT by rambo316
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion
I don't have the data at my fingertips (this being Sunday morning at 8:20), but anecdotally, black males' propensity for lifelong monogamous marriage has been in secular decline for generations. So asking what the impact of this is on their ability to "find wives" doesn't seem too relevant, and if anything, is backwards. Their female counterparts, long suffering their erstwhile mates' wanderlust, have decided to move on.

The social impact is seen already in ghetto neighborhoods, with unattached black men in evidence. And it is also seen on college campuses where black women are disproportionately seen, and in the census data, when they marry white guys.

Darwin would approve.

93 posted on 07/14/2002 5:27:38 AM PDT by NativeNewYorker
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To: StockAyatollah
So does this mean that white men are better endowed?

YES.

Better endowed in the sense of the complete package of attributes women seek in a mate.

94 posted on 07/14/2002 5:28:45 AM PDT by NativeNewYorker
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To: EaglesUpForever
Yes, racism is an equal opportunity affliction. :)
95 posted on 07/14/2002 5:29:53 AM PDT by NativeNewYorker
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To: one_particular_harbour
they can't date bums

I'm framing this one, for when my daughter, now 3, dates.

96 posted on 07/14/2002 5:31:10 AM PDT by NativeNewYorker
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To: MinorityRepublican
So you are proof of the robustness of hybrids! :)
97 posted on 07/14/2002 5:32:25 AM PDT by NativeNewYorker
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion
"you still haven't explained where those black men are going to find wives"

I don't think the majority of them do. I think that most of these urban-dwellers prefer to have sex with as many women as they can, which results in many out-of-wedlock births, and gives them "honor". Case in point is my sister - got mixed with up with some dirtbag who told her how wonderful she was, etc. She gets pregnant. When she arrived home, she discovered that he had been seeing other women the whole time with her. He has now fathered 5 children with 4 other women.

Also, look at professional athletes, and how many kids they have, and with how many different women. I believe that it has somehow become part of the black "culture" to just spread their seed around. Sounds stupid, but I don't see whites doing this on anywhere near their level.

98 posted on 07/14/2002 5:49:00 AM PDT by GreatOne
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To: NativeNewYorker
Will they draw a blank stare at the first mention of P-funk, nappy hair and playing the dozens?

They would from me. I get the "nappy hair", but the other two phrases mean nothing to me. Funk, I assume, is music. "The dozens?" Makes me think of welfare queens.

99 posted on 07/14/2002 5:50:37 AM PDT by Tall_Texan
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To: NativeNewYorker
re:

Most inter-race couples I see here in Sodom are black men with white women. They are fairly common, and outnumber the obverse easily 10:1. White man - oriental woman couples out number the obverse by about 5:1. Just my observations, in Manhattan.)))

Read this article, and I was interested in how they carefully left out what you and I thought was obvious--that there are many more blackM/whiteW pairings... one of the reasons that black women are taking a look at white men is likely that the black men who are on their way up the ladder so often choose white women. You don't have to hang around a high school too many days, or a hospital, or any where there are a good number of black women working or studying before you become conscious of the rage so many black women feel over this...that they are rejected for white women, and not very pretty white women at that. It's gotta hurt.

I also thought it was funny that the writer only spoke of the choices of black women...not too interested in what the white men might think. If W men are commitment-terrified with W women, do you think they'll have more commitment with a black woman? I wonder if the men aren't going where they think a marriage tradition is very weak, and won't feel pressured...

I do notice a lot of guys of all races quite besotted with Asian dolls. So much so that the Asian girls have become quite the demanding, high-maintenance pricesses...I watch this at close range with great amusement...

100 posted on 07/14/2002 6:14:53 AM PDT by Mamzelle
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