Posted on 07/15/2002 7:41:40 PM PDT by american colleen
I did too. I especially appreciated the highlighting of Jesus words:
He who is not against us is with us.
The Good Lord casts a wide net, doesnt' He?
When Jesus spoke these words the "Catholic" church did not exist. I'm a bit rusty with my exact Biblical quotes, but I believe Jesus said something to the effect that "wherever two are gathered in my name, I am there."
Now as I said, I'm a bit rusty, but I don't believe he said "wherever two Catholics are gathered in my name, I am there." And to tell you the truth, I feel closer to God when I am wandering around alone in the Cedar swamps up here where I live......
Leaving our friends to work out their differences in this productive manner,LOL. Bumping, click my screen name for a description, etc.
patent +AMDG
I think the reality is that we don’t know, and each of us has a bias that determines how we interpret these phrases. As the author said, “But at the mysterious periphery of the communion of saints, it's difficult to see what God is up to, so the Church doesn't presume to judge.”He who is not against us is with us.The Good Lord casts a wide net, doesnt' He?
Dominus Vobiscum
patent +AMDG
I thought you both might like this essay after all the back and forth on the Lutheran Minister thread (which I gave up on). A little different take on the same sort of issue.
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Liturgical good news -- from the Vatican!
Despite all the bad news from the Vatican's liturgy office, there's good news down the hall. Cardinal Walter Kasper's Christian Unity office, in consultation with Ratzinger's doctrinal commission and another on Eastern Churches, recently published guidelines that allow the Chaldean Church, a church in union with Rome, to pray the Eucharistic Prayer of the Assyrian Church (not in union with Rome). This prayer does not contain the traditional narrative of the institution of the eucharist. Thus Rome has recognized that the Eucharistic Prayer can be enacted, bread and wine becoming for us the body and blood of Christ as we give God thanks, without the "words of consecration." The whole prayer is consecratory. Liturgy scholar Gabe Huck told ChurchWatch, "This is important because it tells us we must see this prayer as a whole, done by presider proclaiming and assembly acclaiming, from 'Lift up your hearts!' to the great Amen."
From http://www.cta-usa.org/watch02-02/newsbriefs.html
Kasper's article, beneath its complicated details, is animated by the desire to secure greater "pastoral flexibility" in areas where a gap seems to be widening between the Church's official positions and the actual practices of many local churches. It is a fact that the Church's official positions tend to be implemented with increasing reluctance, if not simply ignored, in many local churches throughout the world, particularly in countries such as the U.S., Canada, Australia, Japan, and the nations of western Europe. Areas of disagreement and contention with the Vatican include, according to Kasper, "ethical issues, sacramental discipline and ecumenical practices." This likely translates into the Church's widely controverted and ignored prohibitions against homosexual acts, premarital cohabitation, and "remarriage" outside the Church — and her ban prohibiting those involved in these things, or those whose affiliation is non-Catholic, from receiving Holy Communion. There is also the matter of contraception. It is widely known that there are bishops and priests who favor an open communion policy, and that few would turn away anyone approaching the altar, whatever his sexual practice, marital status, or church affiliation. Cardinal Martini of Milan has been reported as saying, for instance, that the Church has no business getting involved in the personal morals of individual Catholics. As we shall see, Kasper seems inclined to agree with this perspective.
From http://www.newoxfordreview.org/apr02/philipblosser.html
As you have seen we are willing to do battle with each other..:>)
Uh, something about that doesn't seem quite right. I am not saying the Church should supervise the personal lives of its members to the extent that, say, the Jehovah's Witnesses do but... Take a recent example. The decision by Cardinal Egan not to grant a funeral mass for John Gotti. A decision not to make the Church look ridiculous by honoring an unrepentant murderer.
But on this point of non-Christians receiving Divine Grace, I would certainly include Buddha in that category.
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