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AIR TRAVELER ID REQUIREMENT CHALLENGED
CRYPTOME.org ^ | July 18, 2002 | Gilmore vs. Ashcroft

Posted on 07/18/2002 2:36:22 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum

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Freedom?! We don't need no steenking freedom!
1 posted on 07/18/2002 2:36:22 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
It looks like you approve of what this lawsuit happy moron is doing.
2 posted on 07/18/2002 2:38:51 PM PDT by dennisw
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To: dennisw
It looks like you approve of what this lawsuit happy moron is doing.

It looks like you approve of targeting 90-yeard old grandmas instead of the people who are actually likely to be terrorists.

3 posted on 07/18/2002 2:40:05 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Oh say does that star-spangled banner yet wave, o'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?
4 posted on 07/18/2002 2:47:24 PM PDT by gunshy
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
I never thoiught about it quite this way.
I had in mind that they were wanting to make sure that someone else wasn't taking your ticket.
If it IS the fedgov that's requiring this I might have to look at it in a different way.
5 posted on 07/18/2002 2:52:50 PM PDT by Just another Joe
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
It looks like you approve of targeting 90-yeard old grandmas instead of the people who are actually likely to be terrorists.

------> Not quite. This idiot wants no one to have show ID at the airport. Such ego tripping libertarian losers! Nothing new here.
6 posted on 07/18/2002 2:56:31 PM PDT by dennisw
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To: *AirSec_List
Index Bump
7 posted on 07/18/2002 3:00:00 PM PDT by Free the USA
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To: Free the USA
bump for later reading
8 posted on 07/18/2002 3:01:52 PM PDT by ldakers
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: E. Pluribus Unum
What a was of money. FAA Regulations the not 191's or so-called secret directives, they are however classified or law enforcement sensitive directives, requires only Photo Identification. Not Government Identification. As along as you have some form of ID that has a photo on it that is all that FAA requires. Everything else is an airline policy. That is it.
10 posted on 07/18/2002 3:12:36 PM PDT by habaes corpussel
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To: zhabotinsky
"This is probably the stupdiest lawsuit in American judicial history not filed by Michael Newdow."

Nope, sorry. Wrong.

"There had been a problem with people buying tickets under one name and showing up under another. They were doing this to avoid prosecution for crimes committed or to perhaps commit a crime on the plane itself. In order to solve the problem, the government developed a minimally invasive process. The ticket-holder provides Photo ID matching the ticket."

So, then if the problem and solution are so simple, WHY ISN'T THE REGULATION POSTED IN THE FEDERAL REGISTER?? There is no place in the U.S. for SECRET REGULATIONS--that is the kind of thing that goes on under tyrannical governments--you know, like Nazi Germany, Communist East Germany, Soviet Russia, King George's England. This is one of the reasons we had that little shindig in 1776 and years following.

ANY rule of this sort should be PUBLISHED, IN FULL, in the Federal Register AND ONLINE. "Secret" laws, trials in "Secret" courts, etc. are anathema to American citizens.

11 posted on 07/18/2002 3:14:08 PM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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To: zhabotinsky
You can use any form of Picture ID you wish

Abdul can even use the one he made on his computer this morning (says John Smith).
12 posted on 07/18/2002 3:15:26 PM PDT by itzmygun
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Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

To: zhabotinsky
"What precisely is the injury to the plaintiff sufficient to get him into Court?"

What part of "show me your papers" don't you understand?

14 posted on 07/18/2002 3:41:15 PM PDT by Badray
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To: dennisw
Hello again Dennis!

Sorry to disrupt your disruption, but where this lawsuit says "...every secret regulation that demands identification from innocent citizens, or restricts their domestic travel. Such regulations are unconstitutional because they are unpublished; require government agents to search and seize citizens who are not suspected of crimes; burden the rights to travel, associate, and petition the government; and discriminate against those who choose anonymity. ", They are absolutely correct.

Either we live in a constitutional republic which respects the rule of law and the limits our constitution places on our goverment, or...

or we have neither a constitutional republic nor respect for the limits our constitution places on our government.

From this and other postings, I would have to assume you must prefer the latter. Please say it ain't so.

15 posted on 07/18/2002 3:43:01 PM PDT by Lloyd227
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To: Badray
Some will laugh off any infringement on their rights. They're "too cool" to think it will ever have any consequence...
16 posted on 07/18/2002 3:44:40 PM PDT by motzman
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To: zhabotinsky

There had been a problem with people buying tickets under one name and showing up under another. They were doing this to avoid prosecution for crimes committed or to perhaps commit a crime on the plane itself.

Actually, they were doing this because they had a friend who wasn't able to take the flight, or their company didn't know which employee was going to be able to fly at the time the ticket was purchased, etc.

The airlines hated this because they wanted to be able to charge extra for last-minute bookings, etc.

In order to solve the problem, the government developed a minimally invasive process. The ticket-holder provides Photo ID matching the ticket.

Nope. The requirement for photo IDs was adopted by the airlines on their own, without a government mandate.

17 posted on 07/18/2002 3:48:35 PM PDT by jdege
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To: zhabotinsky
"The government is not forbidding you to travel. It is not licensing you to travel anywhere. "

Sorry to disagree, but this is exactly what the requirement does. Try traveling without ID, and see how far you get.

18 posted on 07/18/2002 3:49:21 PM PDT by Lloyd227
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To: Lloyd227
You really need to be catapulted into a 3rd world pesthole where you can find out what 'statism' is all about. Even Europe would do. 

This lawsuit is all about a loudmouth Losertarian getting to strut his stuff. Just like godless Michael Newdow. For most Losertarians their god is their self.

19 posted on 07/18/2002 4:00:48 PM PDT by dennisw
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
From Black's Law Dictionary, Fourth Edition, at page 1064:

THE BASIC LIBERTIES

The word "liberty" includes and comprehends all personal rights and their enjoyment.

It embraces freedom from duress,

freedom from governmental interference in exercise of intellect,

in formation of opinions,

in the expression of them,

and in action or inaction dictated by judgment,

freedom from servitude, imprisonment or restraint,

freedom in enjoyment and use of all of one's powers, faculties and property,

freedom of assembly,

freedom of citizen from banishment,

freedom of conscience,

freedom of contract,

freedom of locomotion or movement,

freedom of occupation,

freedom of press,

freedom of religion,

and freedom of speech.

It also embraces right of self-defense against unlawful violence,

right to acquire and enjoy property,

right to acquire useful knowledge,

right to carry on business,

right to earn livelihood in any lawful calling,

right to emigrate, and if a citizen, to return,

right to engage in a lawful business, to determine the price of one's labor, and to fix the hours when one's place of business shall be kept open,

right to enjoy to the fullest extent the privileges and immunities given or assured by law to people living within the country,

right to forswear allegiance and expatriate oneself,

right to freely buy and sell as others may,

right to labor,

right to live and work where one will,

right to marry and have a family,

right to pursue a chosen calling,

and, the right to use property according owner's will.


20 posted on 07/18/2002 4:01:47 PM PDT by handk
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