Biden backs letting soldiers arrest civilians

Washington Times ^ | 7/22/02 | Joyce Howard Price

[kattracks]

Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr., Delaware Democrat, yesterday strongly endorsed giving soldiers the power to arrest American civilians.

Interviewed yesterday on "Fox News Sunday," Mr. Biden, a member of the Judiciary Committee, said the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, which prevents the military from exercising police powers in this country, should be re-examined and "has to be amended."

[hoosierham]

DANGER!

When the Army gains arrest powers in peacetime , this nation ceases to be a fre country.

History is full of examples.

[nunya bidness]

The Biden proposal and the Ridge "knockdown" — not necessarily a "knockout" — may have been coordinated and calculated to measure public reaction. Mr. Ridge grew more emphatic later in the day in his view that military authorities should not have such powers of arrest over civilians.

I'll be sending my resume to The Washington Times in the morning. Right after I make one up.

[Texasforever]

I'll be sending my resume to The Washington Times in the morning. Right after I make one up.

LOL

[BADROTOFINGER]

What an a$$. Its not ok for military to arrest illegals crossing the borders, no, it is WRONG, but citizens? Screw 'em, lock em up. Amazing...JFK

[Vidalia]

Whoa, Trigger!

Joe Biden actually has a thought in his newly arranged top-soiled head that may help?

Whoa, Trigger!

The doors must be slowly closing, and the cleaning of the house is in preparatory staging...?

Dare those of us who have been saying so for years wish?

[Brush_Your_Teeth]

We do not need an army on the border or within to police our nation. The problem with the INS is that it is underfunded and is doing all it can to help illegals get into the country not keep them out.

Give the INS 10,000 more officers and they can deal with the problem themselfs if they have the correct leadership that stopped putting water tanks in deserts.

Let the brave americans in our armed forces do their job of blowing things up and killing without useing them as a quick answer to our ills.

[Vidalia]

The INS hasn't a clue about what is going on.

It is like the Environmental Protection Agency a few years ago having to evacuate their own building, from toxic fume buildup in their own building for several years.

The E.P.A. still will not release publically the information on how many people died from that incident.

[BADROTOFINGER]

We do not need an army on the border or within to police our nation. The problem with the INS is that it is underfunded and is doing all it can to help illegals get into the country not keep them out.

Give the INS 10,000 more officers and they can deal with the problem themselfs if they have the correct leadership that stopped putting water tanks in deserts.

Let the brave americans in our armed forces do their job of blowing things up and killing without useing them as a quick answer to our ills.

For the record, I dont think that it is the military's job to arrest citizens, I thought I made that clear but maybe I didnt. It is our military's job to defend our borders.

As far as the INS getting better leadership, dont hold your breath. As is obvious, our military is not 'blowing things up and killing' right now, a great deal of them are standing between warring factions and essentially being human targets for foreigners who are embittered by our interference. Obviously, we need better leadership all the way around. Bring them home. Put them on our borders. Let the Euroweenies solve their own problems...JFK

[Yehuda]

How do we arrest Biden?

[AD from SpringBay]

This is what the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution is all about.

[Texasforever]

Give the INS 10,000 more officers and they can deal with the problem themselfs if they have the correct leadership that stopped putting water tanks in deserts.

Yeah lets create another army. LMAO

[Sir Gawain]

±

[cva66snipe]

How do we arrest Biden?

Why that's easy. Hum let's see the military arresting corrupt politicans or ones proposing questionable new leglislation, the military detaining corrupt politicans till trial, the military punishing corrupt politicans in federal stockades. Did I miss anything? Every elected offical needs to be overseen by a member of the armed forces. /sarcasm off Absolutely no change should be made involving the military in civilian matters unless these mentioned items come with it also.

[weikel]

Military rule in this country, since the military's almost entirely composed of conservatives, would eventually mean a right wing dictatorship( or monarchy).

Historically the states of right wing dictators and monarchs tend to be smaller and less intrusive then those of Republics or Democracies.

In fact the entry of the military into politics would probably save freedom in this country in the long term rather than destroy it as we are rapidly heading towards a police state now( with this TIPs gestapo crap). Its not like Russia during WWI when the military was subverted by Bolsheviks. The army is conservative here if they end up ruling the government will become smaller and more conservative as well.

[Thumper1960]

Scarey.

How long before the Bidenites decide that quartering soldiers in civilian homes is OK?

Bring it on, Herr Biden. Reveal the wisdom of Jefferson's dictum: "The tree of Liberty needs to be fed with the blood of tyrants".

[philman_36]

Interviewed yesterday on "Fox News Sunday," Mr. Biden, a member of the Judiciary Committee, said the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, which prevents the military from exercising police powers in this country, should be re-examined and "has to be amended."
Such a change will happen soon, he said.

Straight from the horse's mouth. I'm sure the paperwork is already made up and just waiting for "just the right moment" to be presented, much like the case with the PATRIOT Act. Ready and waiting in the warm up circle.
There isn't any conspiracy, it's all out in the open. They even holler what is going to happen right from the rooftops.

Batter up!

[Jeff Chandler]

I remember an incident about 20 years ago, when I went to pay for the fuel I put in my truck at a local gas station. A farm bus had just pulled up, so I found myself in line at the cash register with about 25 Mexican nationals.

An INS agent walked inside, and immediately confronted the only white-skinned person in the line-me! He spoke to me in Spanish, and I answered him in English. He wanted to know where I was born. I told him "Montebello, CA", and he left the building.

I figured he was either new on the job, or too lazy to actually risk having to arrest anyone.

[John Locke]

Just to mention the most famous historical example: the crossing of the Rubicon in 49BC by Julius Caesar. The beginning of the transition of Rome from a Republic into an Empire.

Today, we stand at the same watershed. And since so few of us remember history, I fear we are bound to repeat it.

[Night Hides Not]

The army is conservative here if they end up ruling the government will become smaller and more conservative as well.

I have to disagree with you on this! Based on my experience of 8 years active duty, and living in a military town for 20 years (Fort Bliss/El Paso), the vast majority of military members are quite liberal when it comes to big government, particularly when it comes to the defense budget as a whole.

Eisenhower warned us about the military-industrial complex, which is alive and well today. Rumsfeld's drive to revamp and organize our military is being fought tooth and nail by those whose power and incomes depend on the size of their budgets. The battle over the Crusader system is a case in point.

The posse comitatus statutes have served our country well for decades. Let's keep them intact.

[steve50]

Just a terrorist attack or two after we hit Iraq. I'm sure the paperwork is done, they just need an emergency to implement it. Market in the tank, war in Iraq, a few domestic terrorist acts and we'll be begging them to make us a police state.

"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar."
--Julius Caesar

[Tench_Coxe]

Well, technically the transition to Empire was a bit longer. All one has to do is look at Sulla. But Caesar finally committed and that is typically seen as the last nail in the coffin.

Another poster on this thread actually seemed rather cheery at the prospect. Caesar sought to save Rome by his actions, much like the rationale put forth by the poster.

Seems there's a lot of folks on this forum that are excited. I might remind them that for every Marcus Aurelius, there are three or four Caligulas or Neros waiting in the wings.

[jordan8]

I was stopped by a soldier
says he "You are a swine"
He hit me with his rifle
And kicked me in the groin
I begged and I pleaded,
Oh, my manners were polite
But sure, all the time I'm thinking
Of my little Armalite

[steamroller]

I have to wonder how the military was legally utilized to put down riots in Detroit and LA(twice).These were federal troops,not national guardsmen.I know the 82nd Airborne was sent into Detroit in 1967.What was the legal basis for this?I am not asking a trick question-I really don't know.

[steamroller]

He was probably working under intimidation from some crappy federal court injunction.You wouldn't believe the obstacles that the courts and bureaucrats put in the way of INS agents doing their jobs.I always managed to make plenty of arrests in spite of the commie infestation of the agency.The only times I was threatened with disciplinary action was for doing my job.Since I knew I was on solid ground,I never backed down and never got actually suspended,reprimanded,etc.I never got more than one promotion and I spent my whole career on the bricks where I have to say I was happiest.Picturing myself as a pencil pushing admin turd doesn't compute.I am sorry that you had such an Alice-in-Wonderland experience.

[Redbob]

I'm not sure the INS needs 10,000 more officers, so much as it needs CLEAR DIRECTION, that what we want to do is KEEP OUT illegal aliens.
A clear mission would do wonders for the INS' effectiveness.

[dmz]

please name for me the countries under a military or right wing dictatorship that you would prefer to live in (either current or historical) as compared to the present day US.

[bok]

So military rule isn't unprecedented in the united states since it was used against civilians in the former confederate states after the civil war?

[weikel]

The government in this country is getting bigger and bigger and nothing within the system is going to stop it. So eventually the government in this country will be a left wing communist dictatorship unless the government is overthrown some how. A military coup would not save the Republic true but it would change the form of the dictatorship from left wing/totalitarian/commie/police state to a more right wing one more reminscent of Pinochet in Chile. Of course I assume from your name your from the DU so you would prefer the commie dictatorship( well at least till you have to live under it).

[weikel]

The military budget would increase true( which Im in favor of btw) but the military budget is only around 16% of the Federal Budget now. If whoever the El Supremo is axes all socialist programs and the local pork of Congressman dissapear our taxes will still be much lower.

[weikel]

Well you mean what form of government I'd prefer well Pinochet of Chile's government comes to mind.

[thepitts]

How do we arrest Biden?

When you figure this out let me know.

[Noumenon]

Once the Democratic Global Socialist scum regain control of the apparatus of the state, they will not hesitate to use the this and other provisions of the Patriot Act to ruthlessly suppress dissent.

They are in fact counting on that very thing.

God help us all, because that's when the killing starts. The lessons of history are very clear on that point.

[Noumenon]

"I might remind them that for every Marcus Aurelius, there are three or four Caligulas or Neros waiting in the wings."

Or worse. Caligula and Nero were pikers and amateurs compared to the monsters of the last century and this one. If history has taught us anything at all, it that there are things worse than death, and that it is far better to go down with a rifle in your hand than to submit to the horrors of the power-lusters.

[taxcontrol]

Lets see, 10,000 more officers at $35,000 per comes to $350,000,000.

Or $500 bounty paid per illegal reported to INS by local authorities. $500 fine if the "illegal" in question is acutally here legally. INS would pay the local authorities $500 and the local authorities would pay the citizen that provided the tip $250. At that rate, you could capture about 700,000 illegals per year without the management overhead. Plus you would help out local police department budgets.

I could make quite a living "riding range" between Texas and California.

Just my .02

[VOR78]

I have no problems with putting troops on the borders to keep illegals out, but those troops should never have authority over US citizens. Bad idea. They should never have the ability to arrest US citizens, period. Such a move is extremely dangerous. That's an implementation of martial law, and will likely lead down that slippery slope to a military dictatorship.

[hoosierham]

I sure look forward to being shot or robbed by right -wing militarists; they are so much nicer than left -wing militarists.

What have you been smokin' ?

For a start, any dictatorship will clamp down on dissent (bye, bye freedom of speech (and FreeRepublic)), will confiscate arms (weapons, computers, chemicals) from those not favored by the military (our victorious and beneficient Allied armies DISARMED the partisans who were both brave enough to fight the Nazis and stupid enough to let our troops see their guns)An occupying army that did not disarm the population would be something new

[habaes corpussel]

Joe Biden! If this guy regains his senate seat this year, I am all for giving the State of Delware to a third world country.

[Fixit]

Joe Biden actually has a thought in his newly arranged top-soiled head that may help?

Since Joe obviously didn't come up with this idea himself, the real question is who planted the seed from which this idea grew in his hair-plugged head?

[Vidalia]

Maybe some of the droplets from those "mysterious concentric circles" created by the "mysterious aircraft" that fly at altitudes over 100K feet landed on Biden's baby-butt bald forhead while skiing ...

[2nd_Amendment_Defender]

However, Tom Ridge, director of the Office of Homeland Security, said in several appearances on political talk shows yesterday that the Biden proposal should be considered but that he thinks it's "very unlikely" such a change will be made.

Praise the Lord it's unlikely this act will pass. The founding fathers opposed soldiers having authority like this over United States Citizens.

[packrat01]

How is the military supposed to differentiate between U.S. Citizens, and foreign nationals; without a national I.D. card?

Your papers, please!