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Bill would close gun law holes (Gun Control)
UPI ^ | 07/30/02 | Nicholas M. Horrock

Posted on 07/30/2002 8:07:38 PM PDT by USA21

Edited on 07/12/2004 3:56:00 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

WASHINGTON, July 30 (UPI) -- Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., introduced legislation Tuesday to close major gaps in the federal firearms background check system that in a 30-month period allowed some 10,000 felons and others prohibited from gun ownership to obtain weapons.


(Excerpt) Read more at washtimes.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: banglist; guncontrol
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1 posted on 07/30/2002 8:07:38 PM PDT by USA21
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To: USA21
July 30, 2002

Guns and violence

Paul Craig Roberts

Blaming violence on guns and fanning hysteria over accidental deaths to children from firearms are staples of antigun propaganda. Media help gun-control zealots spread false information that gun ownership and self-defense are certain paths to injury and death. Handgun Control Inc., gives erroneous advice that if you are attacked, the best way to avoid injury "is to put up no defense." Anti-gun zealots blame the actions of criminals on guns and argue that disarming law-abiding gun owners is the best way to reduce the crime rate.

Scholars such as Gary Kleck, Don Kates and John Lott have demonstrated the falsity of these claims. Now comes an important new book from Harvard University Press. "Guns and Violence" by Bentley College history professor Joyce Lee Malcolm brings new evidence that guns reduce violence.

Professor Malcolm's carefully researched book is a study of guns and violence in England from the Middle Ages through the present day. When the English were armed to the teeth, violent crime was rare. Now that the English are disarmed, violent crime has exploded. Indeed, crime in England is out of control.

Offering instruction for the U.S., the English experience will be covered in a subsequent column. Professor Malcolm presents many facts about guns and violence in America, and it is to these we turn first. Did you know that water is 19 times more dangerous to a child than a firearm? In 1996, 805 children died from accidental drownings and 42 died from firearm accidents. (Gun control zealots inflate "child" firearm deaths by including teenage drug gang members killed in turf battles.)

Bathtubs are twice as dangerous to children as guns. Fire is 18 times more dangerous to children than guns. Cars are 57 times more dangerous. Household cleaners and poisons are twice as dangerous.</>

Did you know defensive gun use prevents far more crimes than the police? National polls of defensive gun use by private citizens indicate that as many as 3.6 million crimes annually are prevented by armed individuals. In 98 percent of the cases, the armed citizen merely has to brandish his weapon.

As many as 400,000 people each year believe they saved a life by being armed. Contrary to Handgun Control's propaganda, in less than 1 percent of confrontations do criminals succeed in taking the gun from the intended victim.

Did you know that the testimony of incarcerated felons supports the large number of defensive gun uses? Thirty-four percent of felons said they were scared off, wounded or captured by victims who turned out to be armed.

Convicted felons say they are more deterred by armed victims than by the police. In the U.S. where roughly 50 percent of households are armed, only 13 percent of burglaries occur with residents at home. In contrast, in Britain, where homeowners are disarmed, 50 percent of home burglaries take place with the residents present.

Gun control zealots claim that the availability of guns is the primary cause of homicides. Between 1973 and 1994, the number of guns in private ownership in the U.S. rose by 87 million. During this period, both the homicide rate and the percent of homicides committed with firearms dropped.

Another test of the relationship between guns and violence is provided by the concealed-carry laws now in force in 33 states. Gun control zealots predicted that traffic accidents and other altercations combined with an armed public would result in a bloodbath. Professor Malcolm confronts this false prediction with empirical evidence:

"In all the decades of experience with concealed-carry laws in an increasing number of states, there is only one recorded incident of the use of a permitted handgun in a shooting following a traffic accident, and that was determined to be a case of self-defense."

The 17 states and the District of Columbia without concealed-carry permits enjoy an 81 percent higher rate of violent crime. Their restrictive gun laws produced 1,400 more murders, 4,200 more rapes, 12,000 more robberies, and 60,000 more aggravated assaults.

Professor Malcolm disproves the claim that family members are the main victims of gun ownership. This myth results from FBI reports that most victims are "known" to the murderer. In the category of "known to the murderer," the FBI includes members of rival drug gangs, prostitutes and their pimps, and even cabdrivers killed in robberies by "customers."

Far from the picture of hot-tempered spouses turning the family firearm upon one another in moments of rage, it turns out that 90 percent of adult murderers have prior criminal records involving major felonies. Three-quarters of juvenile murderers and their victims have an average of 10 prior criminal arraignments.

The English Bill of Rights guarantees English citizens "arms for their defense." Politicians and bureaucrats stole this right from the people by subterfuge. In England today, only outlaws have guns. Sens. Joseph Lieberman, Connecticut Democrat, John McCain, Arizona Republican, and Charles Schumer, New York Democrat, are working to duplicate the English calamity by stealing gun rights from the American people. Do these three senators represent the criminal lobby? Are they trying to create a black market in guns?

This is the first of two parts. Paul Craig Roberts is a nationaly syndicated columnist.

http://www.washtimes.com/commentary/20020730-23396541.htm

2 posted on 07/30/2002 8:10:37 PM PDT by USA21
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To: USA21
Posted on Tue, Jul. 30, 2002

Unlikely Allies Join on Senate Gun Bill

WASHINGTON - Unlikely Senate allies on Tuesday promoted a bill designed to force states to fill in gaps about mental illness, spousal abuse and criminal convictions in background records for gun purchases.

Idaho Republican Sen. Larry Craig, one of the staunchest advocates of gun rights in the Senate, joined with Arizona Republican Sen. John McCain, who has backed some gun control legislation, and New York Democratic Sens. Charles Schumer and Edward Kennedy of Massachusetts, two fierce advocates of stricter gun regulation.

"This legislation fixes a huge hole in our system -- a hole that delays legitimate firearms purchases and allows criminals and other prohibited buyers to obtain guns," McCain said.

The legislation calls for states to improve the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, known as NICS, by requiring states and federal agencies to provide the FBI with all relevant records, including mental health records and records of domestic violence convictions.

Those records can be utilized when instant checks are done on gun purchases.

Companion legislation recently passed the House Judiciary Committee by a 30-2 vote and has a good chance of passing the House of Representatives later this year.

The bill is called "Our Lady of Peace Act," for a church in New York Democratic Rep. Carolyn McCarthy's district where a mentally ill man killed a priest and parishioner during Mass last March.

McCarthy, whose husband was killed by a deranged gunman on the Long Island Railroad in 1993, is a House sponsor of the legislation.

It would allow federal grants to states worth about $250 million for each of the next three years. The legislation does not address larger issues that have been dividing lawmakers, such as requiring background checks of up to three days at gun shows.

A summary of the bill notes that improving the NICS data base will speed up background checks, reducing delays for law-abiding gun buyers.

3 posted on 07/30/2002 8:17:00 PM PDT by USA21
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To: USA21
The only hole that needs to be plugged is the one that McCrazy talks out of.
4 posted on 07/30/2002 8:37:08 PM PDT by Astronaut
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To: USA21
There are already enough laws on the books to deny firearms to all citizens. Of course that is what triggered the Republican revolution in '94, but politicians remember only until the next election. Liberals are feeling stronger now because the electorate also doesn't remember much past the most recent sound-bite, the latest tragedy.
5 posted on 07/30/2002 8:47:13 PM PDT by RightWhale
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To: USA21
"10,000 criminals and others.."

Mcainiac learned well from der Sleekmeister...I'd like this "factoid" explained in detail.Most "felons" don't buy guns at gun stores etc.

6 posted on 07/30/2002 8:52:19 PM PDT by lawdog
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To: USA21
He cited a report issued by the Americans for Gun Safety in January that showed "millions of records are missing from NICS' database." The study showed that over a 30-month period, 10,000 criminals and others obtained a license without a full background check "because the records couldn't be checked properly within the three days allowed by federal law."

Another bullshit study by gungrabbers being elevated to revealed truth, like the "43 times" study. Soon to appear as gospel everywhere.

How many of those 10,000 were arrested? NONE! During all the klinton years, there were THREE prosecutions.

It's all part of an effort to establish the mythology that all gun sales should have gone through federal approval from day one of the founding the the republic. That, in turn, is part of the mythology that the Second Ammendment establishes RKBA as a privilege that flows solely from the federal government, a spigot to be turned off at will.

If they ever DID get private sales outlawed, would they then start arresting those 10,000 felons? Or would they just shut down all approvals, and therefore all gun sales? Past history says they have no interest in putting bad guys in jail, just gun owners.

7 posted on 07/30/2002 8:54:27 PM PDT by 300winmag
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To: *bang_list
ping
8 posted on 07/30/2002 8:59:55 PM PDT by Mr_Magoo
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To: USA21
Notice that nice wording, "10,000 criminals and others". That way you can throw in all kinds of records to inflate the findings.
9 posted on 07/30/2002 9:06:55 PM PDT by scarface367
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To: USA21
Whatever happened to the McCain recall?
He belongs in the looney bin.....................in Hanoi!
Just keep pushing you lousy socialists!
10 posted on 07/30/2002 9:14:22 PM PDT by rockfish59
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To: USA21
They mention the NICS checking licenses and registrations twice and it is designed to do neither; yet.
11 posted on 07/30/2002 9:15:12 PM PDT by TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig
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To: 300winmag
I read this a little different. I don`t want convicted felons, mental cases, illegal aliens, and people that voted for Clinton to have guns.If guys like Sen. Craig are for it, it`s OK. Please remember, every illegal act involving a gun gives the anti gun idiots more ammo.
12 posted on 07/30/2002 9:15:36 PM PDT by bybybill
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To: 300winmag
How many of those 10,000 were arrested? NONE! During all the klinton years, there were THREE prosecutions.

And one of those three was a bogus sham job they did on That Maadi Griffin guy (Bob Stewart?)

13 posted on 07/30/2002 9:17:36 PM PDT by TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig
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To: bybybill
I read this a little different. I don`t want convicted felons, mental cases, illegal aliens, and people that voted for Clinton to have guns.If guys like Sen. Craig are for it, it`s OK. Please remember, every illegal act involving a gun gives the anti gun idiots more ammo.

The government has the tools needed to go after real criminals. The government does not make use of the tools it already has. It is much easier and safer for BATF agents to prosecute law-abiding citizens for 'paperwork problems' (e.g. misspelling a manufacturer name) than to go after real crooks. After all, real crooks not only are less likely to cooperate with police, but they're also likely to shoot at them.

One of the people convicted under the Brady Act was caught when he tried to redeem a handgun he'd pawned for some cash. His criminal record was clean except for a 20+ year old conviction of being an accessory to a robbery. IMHO, the government probably went after this guy because he was a 99.44% law-abiding citizen and they knew he wouldn't be dangerous. By contrast, there are places where gang bangers are well-known to be illegally armed and yet the cops do nothing about it.

Background checks are not about reducing crime. They're about giving the government a list of all the guns owned by law-abiding citizens. The government doesn't care about the guns owned by criminal gangs, since the government and the gangs are allies in the war against productive citizens.

14 posted on 07/31/2002 12:15:00 AM PDT by supercat
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To: scarface367
Notice that nice wording, "10,000 criminals and others". That way you can throw in all kinds of records to inflate the findings.

The actual number will turn out to be 1 criminal and 9,999 others.

15 posted on 07/31/2002 12:18:44 AM PDT by Lazamataz
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To: Astronaut; USA21; lawdog; 300winmag; Mr_Magoo; scarface367; rockfish59; big ern
Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., introduced legislation Tuesday to close major gaps in the federal firearms background check system that in a 30-month period allowed some 10,000 felons and others prohibited from gun ownership to obtain weapons.

A bunch of lies. Now it's the gun show loophhole, tommorrow we need a 30 day waiting period to buy guns, then the gun licenses. We are losing are 2nd Amendment rights fellow patriots. Join Frontsight Training Institute. Ignatius Piazza is going after the people in the media and educating them about what firearm freedoms really do in America. Media will make us or break us in the long run.

16 posted on 07/31/2002 12:54:09 AM PDT by 2nd_Amendment_Defender
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To: 300winmag
I think you've identified their play: wedge a records-check requirement between buyer and seller and use foot-dragging to queer the sale.

It's an iron law of salesmanship that you can't sell your customer when he's standing on a street corner downtown. It has to be here, it has to be now, or the risk that the transaction somehow won't be consummated rises exponentially. That's what the HCI types want to happen.

McCain is showing us just how badly the Feds can screw up the NICS system through bureaucratic initiative.

Klintoon was a big piece of this: the Violence Against Women Act (which is unconstitutional on its face, violative of the II, V, and XIV Amendments), by including domestic misdemeanants and parties to contested divorces, guaranteed that these records would be screwed up forever.

The II-A enthusiasts will have to get the real problem removed, which is the inclusion of non-felons on the list of people whose II-A rights are impaired by statute, in the face of the Second and Fourteenth Amendments.

The Conservatives are going to have to do 1994 all over again, and this time shove a II-A case down the Supreme Court's throat by taking them an original-jurisdiction case they can't turn down. And impeach them if they won't take it.

17 posted on 07/31/2002 12:56:19 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: lawdog
10,003.
I counted.
18 posted on 07/31/2002 2:51:51 AM PDT by metesky
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To: USA21
bump
19 posted on 07/31/2002 3:12:17 AM PDT by NY.SS-Bar9
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To: 2nd_Amendment_Defender
No offense, but Frontsight is nothing but the Amway of the gun world. It's a scam plain and simple. If you want to make a difference, join GOA, JPFO, and other real pro gun organizations. The NRA has stabbed us too many times.

If you really want to make a difference and preserve our rights, go out, volunteer to help with the campaign of a pro gun candidate. Get involved in local politics. Make your voice heard. Don't wait for anyone else to do it.

Mike

20 posted on 07/31/2002 5:18:49 AM PDT by BCR #226
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