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This is a couple of days old, but it didn't come up in my search.
1 posted on 08/09/2002 8:27:43 AM PDT by gubamyster
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To: gubamyster
I'd like for John See to point us to the whereabouts in the U.S. Constitution where it says all citizens have a right to a public education. He's nuts!!
2 posted on 08/09/2002 8:37:21 AM PDT by hsmomx3
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To: gubamyster
Interesting concept. I'd be interested to see a list of a group of influential Americans, including governors, representatives, CEOs, etc., with each of them identified according to the type of education they had (public, private, religious, home, etc.). I have no idea if this is true, but I'd venture to guess that the percentage of these who come from private/religious/home schools far exceeds the general proportion of the enrollment of these schools in general.

If you could make a statement along these lines: "Private and religious schools make up 5% of the nation's student enrollment but 30% of the nation's CEOs," you can bet that some people who might otherwise be public school supporters are going to start to open their eyes.

3 posted on 08/09/2002 8:39:42 AM PDT by Alberta's Child
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To: gubamyster
Excellent post! But this author is a little ignorant on what homeschoolers and voucher conservatives want in regards to a public school exodus. And of course the NEA is nervously twittering "it's all right..it's just a few nuts who are advocating this...it will never happen...your jobs are secure.."
Public education has become an ugly social experiment with our children as pawns.
6 posted on 08/09/2002 8:53:48 AM PDT by goodieD
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To: *Education News; *Homeschool_list; *Ron Paul List; madfly
Index Bump
8 posted on 08/09/2002 10:52:13 AM PDT by Free the USA
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To: Fish out of Water; AAABEST; A. Pole; Agrarian; Alamo-Girl; Anthem; asneditor; ATOMIC_PUNK; ...
ping
9 posted on 08/09/2002 11:40:05 AM PDT by madfly
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To: ppaul
ping
11 posted on 08/09/2002 11:42:56 AM PDT by madfly
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To: gubamyster
To be fair, not everyone homeschools because they are a "culture warrior." We have been on the outs with "fellow" homeschoolers because our kids watch anime, play video games, wear jeans and don't dress in prairie jumpers. In general, while we are conservative politically and socially, we are not culturally isolationist. It bothers me when these types of groups try to speak for all homeschoolers and assume we all share their views on culture, etc.
13 posted on 08/09/2002 11:47:45 AM PDT by valkyrieanne
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To: gubamyster
"A lot of conservatives are realizing they don't care much for the effect. It's time to end all government involvement with the schools, at the state and local and federal levels."

an idea whose time has come!

15 posted on 08/09/2002 12:19:34 PM PDT by christine
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Here's the opening of John Taylor Gatto's speech The Paradox of Extended Childhood [15 minutes, available in Real and MP3 format]:

To begin to grasp the extent of the social experiment standing behind the visible structures of mass compulsion schooling, it isn't necessary to conjure up conspiracies of the classical variety, but only to look at child-rearing from an engineering point of view, as animal training beyond the reach of the animal to fully comprehend. As when a falconer shrouds his bird to prevent it from obeying its nature, or when a horse-racing association dictates that lead be attached to a fast horse's saddle to bring its performance in line with the rest of the pack.

In both cases, bird and horse are less than they would have been, having been reduced to instruments of another species' design. With schooling, too, it shouldn't be difficult to understand that from certain perspectives it might also be desirable to alter the behavior of human children negatively, in the interests of some managerial goal. Whether a thing is good or bad depends on someone's value system; we all understand that. How otherwise could we begin to understand the bald statement made by the famous Dean of Teacher Education at Stanford in 1919 that the term of childhood had been deliberately extended for four years, because important people wanted it that way? What could the dean, that's Elwood Cubberly, have meant? He didn't bother to elaborate. You seldom get to hear the problem of modern schooling framed as a conflict between the purposes of social managers and the purposes of individuals, families, and communities, because the 23 global corporations which control most of the flow of ideas, news, and information worldwide seldom find it convenient to encourage such speculation. Nor do academics in general, because it's a very bad way to get tenure. But nonetheless, this is the thesis that I'll be pursuing tonight: THAT ENORMOUS NUMBERS OF AMERICAN CHILDREN HAVE BEEN DUMBED DOWN AND MADE MORALLY INCOMPLETE IN THE INTERESTS OF A COMPLEX THEORY OF SOCIAL MANAGEMENT, ONE WHICH EMERGED FULL-BLOWN AMONG CORPORATE PLAYERS SOMEWHAT OVER A CENTURY AGO.

School is the principle forge for handicapping mutilations. I'm using that term as you'd use it with a horse race. You handicap it by hanging lead weights on it. School is the central mechanism of its effectiveness. The central mechanism of its effectiveness lies in its ability to extend childhood far beyond natural bounds. Extending childhood was not originally the American way -- just the reverse. Back in 1839, Alexis de Tocqueville, author of "Democracy in America," and if you haven't read it, read it, it will be in every library in Boston and in every library in the United States, Tocqueville tried to put his finger on a fantastic difference he had discerned between American young people and the European variety. "In America," he said, I'm quoting now, "there is strictly speaking no adolescence. At the close of boyhood, the man appears," and by inference, at the close of girlhood, the woman. That early responsibility, according to Tocqueville, imparted such a great a figure to our society that other nations could not compete, and he predicted it would be progressive, and the gulf would enlarge between American power and the power of other nations, which of course it has. Where Europed inhibited the range of the young and rendered them incomplete by imposing an intricate class consciousness, age consciousness, gender consciousness, whatever, America was jettisoning such handicaps to productivity, and it roared into global prominence as a result of the advantage this conferred. Tocqueville's analysis at the beginning of the 21st century has the quaint ring of something like Alice in Wonderland, doesn't it? Could.. could some...ah you see him up there.

American young people are unrecognizable from Tocqueville's description. Childhood here has been artificially extended, well into the 20's and beyond. That picture behind me I assume was a 13-year-old boy, because I taught 8th grade for 30 years, but someone in the hall tonight said, "No, I think it's 17." But whether that's a 13-year-old boy, a 14, a 15, a 16, or a 17, no one in the audience, nor myself, finds that anything out of the norm. American teenage boys are, if they're well-behaved, are goofy, daffy, they put funny things in their ears, and we all assume that this is natural, a natural stage in child development.

....


I can't recommend his newest book highly enough:

There's a perfectly good reason why kids are kept ignorant and immature: it makes for easily-controlled adults. Ignorance means Dependency means Control. Christians putting their kids under the control of the National Center for Education and the Economy, the Ford Foundation, and their anti-American, anti-intellectual comrades, will not win. You can't compete. Get your kids out.


17 posted on 08/09/2002 12:53:19 PM PDT by toenail
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To: gubamyster
Dobson had previously been holding on to the belief that the public schools could be salvaged by witnessing to them...

Oh brother. Maybe next he can try to salvage Congress by witnessing to them. I mean, Congress opens every day with a prayer. And just look at all the good it has done.

18 posted on 08/09/2002 2:46:44 PM PDT by Alan Chapman
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To: gubamyster
"If even 20 percent of Americans pull their kids out of public schools, we'll be a step closer to establishing a new model in this country," he said.

For those who still will have their children in public domain - a good resource:
Choice for Truth!

"All it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing". (Edmund Burke)

19 posted on 08/09/2002 7:53:30 PM PDT by A. Pole
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To: gubamyster
The Libertarian Party has long advocated seperation of education and state.
21 posted on 08/09/2002 11:07:24 PM PDT by Commie Basher
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