[PJ-Comix]

I have several observations about Shane which I'll make later. Mainly I want to read your observations about this book.

I'll lead off with a brief observation. The one thing that got to me when reading this book is whether the character of Shane is entirely mythological or if there was anyone in real life like Shane. My thought is that there was in the character of Robert E. Lee. Like Shane, Lee was tortured by the violence he saw. Following the Civil War, Lee (unlike most other generals), NEVER wrote or talked about his military participation in that War. My guess is that, as Shane was a great gunfighter and Lee was a great general, Lee was ultimately repulsed by the violence. We can perhaps understand Shane's reluctance to engage in violent gunfighting again in much the same way that Lee would have reacted if he had been called to arms again. Also, although Shane was vague about his background, it was significant that he came originally from a Southern background and may even have been something of an aristocrat like Lee.

OK, maybe this Shane/Lee comparison is a stretch but for some reason the similarity in character struck me.

[PJ-Comix]

Time for your observations and discussions. POST AWAY!

[Geoffrey]

I read the book (1st time) and then read it to the kids.

I was drawn to the description of the different farms and their prosperity level. The most prosperous small farmer becomes the leader while the others are followers. Strong work ethic, intelligence and planning, a refusal to quit, reliability and honesty were characteristics that made Dad a true man.

[Dales]

Yeah, put me on the ping list. I'll try to find the Kool-aid Test in time for the next discussion.

[Auntie Mame]

I'd like to comment, even though I'm not quite finished with the book (right now Shane is on his way to town with his gun strapped to his hip).

This good vs. evil story is about appearances, strength, character, sacrifice, friendship, goodness, a man's nature ("It is not in the nature of a mother's back, to let the baby fall" -- African proverb), and love. When Shane rides into the Skerrit's farm, Joe Skerrit sees past the appearance of a dangerous man and inside, deep to his soul and recognizes a purity and goodness that is familiar, because he, too, has these qualities and his friends and neighbors, although good people, do not have this strength of character. He wants this man to stay, perhaps because his presence makes him a better person.

As the story progresses the characters are called upon to sacrifice for each other and for their friendship. Shane gives the ultimate sacrifice by going back to his violent roots, something he has been running away from, to save his friend and coincidentally, all the neighboring farmers.

I was struck and somewhat puzzled at times by the characters in the book who would become enraged to the point of giving up their lives because of words, one farmer being shot just because he let a gunfighter's taunts get him so worked up that he suicidally tried to outdraw this professional gunfighter. I thought of hubby, who if someone said things similar (i.e., in the story the rancher's men said the farmers stank and called them "pig farmers") would have made a joke and laughed it off.

Very good read (so far) and interesting. I should finish the book today and may have further comments.

Very good idea PJ, thanks. I enjoy very much reading everyone's comments.

[SamAdams76]

I'm taking my lunch break at work right now so I'll quickly post some thoughts on Shane and then perhaps extend my remarks later on tonight and join the discussion.

First of all, thank you for turning me on to this book. This is a book that I never would have discovered if not for your recommendation (which is what reading clubs is all about). After all, the book was in the "teen" section at Barnes & Noble and even the cover art of the book itself suggested that it was a book for kids. But there is some fine writing here and I think the average teenager would find this rather challenging. More so than your typical Louis L'Amour book (which are found in the adult section).

There are some important themes running through this book that have application in today's world. The first theme is that one must face up to and confront danger. The danger is not going to "go away" simply because you wish to adopt a live and let live approach to life, as Shane wanted to start doing. It is better to face danger and risk death then to run from it, as you would be broken and unable to live with yourself afterwards.

Another theme is that pacifism only ensures your own destruction. You must be prepared to defend yourself against your adversaries. You cannot expect to get along with them or allow them to "buy you off." For once you allow them to, you will have sold your soul to them.

In the book, Shane "swears" off gun-fighting and refuses to carry his gun or even use it. As a result, when the time comes that he is forced to use his gun again, he is "rusty" and it results in his injury and perhaps death, but we will never know that as he rode out of town. Even if you do not plan to be the aggressor, it is important that you "keep your swords sharp" or you will be made to pay the price.

The real hero in the book for me is Joe Starrett. He has courage, wisdom, judgment, strength and perseverance. All traits that made America great. And in her own way, Joe's wife is just as strong. After all, it was Mrs. Starrett that convinced Shane to stay and fight the ranchers. I detected something going on between Shane and Mrs. Starrett as well. Not anything overtly sexual, but it is clear that had Mrs. Starrett not been spoken for, Shane would have had an interest.

I was struck by the "tree trump" scene in the book in which Joe Starrett and Shane wordlessly chopped up the huge tree stump that was in the yard. The stump evidently wasn't hurting anything but it was THERE and the farm wouldn't be perfect until it was removed. Removing that stump represented Joe's desire to completely dominate his environment and that NOTHING was going to stand in his way. As well, Mrs. Starrett has the same determination to master her environment. When her "perfect pie" was burnt due to her watching Shane and Joe work, she insisted upon making another one while Shane and Joe ate and would not move from the stove (or eat herself) until it was done. This sheer determination to overcome obstacles and achieve the goal at hand is also what makes America great.

I also have comments about the boy but I'll save them for tonight. Time to get back to work!

[SamAdams76]

I also meant to comment on the redemption of Chris, which is another key theme in the story. Chris was on the side of the ranchers and would taunt and insult the farmers. He was clearly an enemy. But Shane recognized that there were good qualities in Chris and that he only had the misfortune to pick the wrong crowd to hang with. However, Chris continued to provoke Shane until they had to fight. Even after having beat Chris to a pulp, Shane was the only one in the room who bothered to help Chris off the floor and nurse his wounds.

I think that many people in the world are like Chris. They are not bad people but they fall in with the wrong sort of people. Turning enemies into friends is another virtue that made America what it is. Look at the relationship we managed to build with post-war Germany and Japan for example! No other nation in the history of the world has had such a history of turning bitter enemies into allies. Nations and peoples have been fighting each other for hundreds and even thousands of years in other parts of the world. Not so with America. We fight like hell and then we make up afterwards (once the "bad" element has been vanquished). Will we one day be allies with countries like Iraq and Iran after the coming war is over and the evil tyrants have been deposed? Time will tell but I'm not ruling it out.

Okay, back to work or else I'll find myself writing reviews full-time!

[Dianna]

Thanks for recommending this book! I started out reading it aloud with my 10 year old son, then I got busy and stopped. He continued reading it on his own.

It's like pulling teeth to get him to read something new! He really enjoyed it.

[shetlan]

"...(Shane) lead the horse over to the trough. He pumped it almost full and let the horse sink its nose in the cool water before he picked up the dipper for himself."

I loved Shane from the first chapter. The only thing better than the barroom brawl was the gunfight. Whoa.

[Antoninus]

Well I ended up reading Shane in two nights, then rented the movie.

In terms of the history of the Western, I'm not sure where Shane fits in. It certainly felt like an archetype of the Clint Eastwood movies many of us love so well. The mysterious stranger rides into town with a clouded past and a good heart. He takes up with little folks who are being abused by the bigger interests and helps even the playing field a bit. This type of story is very attractive and it certainly worked on me. I enjoyed reading it a great deal.

A couple of themes I really appreciated:

• The notion that hard work is a virtue and that hard workers appreciate the efforts of others of the same stripe on some kind of innate level. For anyone having worked in a modern office environment, this sort of camaraderie is often non-existent, particularly where unionization is heavy. Work is considered a vice and only suckers work their guts out.

• The idea that you shouldn't tread on a man just because he appears smaller or outnumbered. It could come back to bite you. While not unique to American Lit, it's certainly an attractive notion.

• The idea that men respect a fighter. I loved the scene where Chris, whom Shane had absolutely stomped earlier, came to respect and understand where Shane and Joe were coming from even to the point where he signed on as Joe's hired man at the end.

• The notion that one should have excellent fighting skills and do all in your power to avoid using them. Of course, this idea is also not uniquely American (as anyone trained in martial arts knows), it is a good, solid lesson based on the ancient maxim, "If you wish for peace, prepare for war."
The movie also had an interesting scene that was not present in the book where Shane was explaining to Bobby that a gun is no better or worse than the man using it -- that a gun is a tool. This is a sentiment that I've heard many times on FR and have made myself on occasion.

On the negative side, I thought the implied "sexual tension" between Shane and Mrs. Starret was unnecessary and added little to the story. I'm still trying to figure out why the author bothered injecting it in there. Any ideas?

Overall, though, I thoroughly enjoyed reading Shane. Great pick.

[JulieRNR21]

This book discussion is a great idea...thanks for creating this thread.

The most moving part for me was when the boy, Bob encountered Shane just before the gunfight at the saloon.
Shane talks to him about the beauty & importance of the land.

IMHO there was a longing in Shane to be part of that 'land' and this added to his desire to help Starrette & his family keep the farm.

He also wanted Bob to have a chance to grow up in a stable family and make roots in the community. One thing that surprised me was Starrette's suggestion that the family take off for another place. It seemed 'out of character'.

'Shane' was so beautifully written. I loved the simplicity and honesty. I wondered if the author, Schaefer had any other successful books?

I wish there would be a remake of the film Shane but the message it contains is not PC.....the 'government' isn't always there to protect you from evil men and therefore 'good men' need to be self-reliant and have 'good tools'.

I saw this first hand in the LA riots when the Korean shopkeepers stood on the roofs of their businesses with their rifles locked & loaded. The rioters bypassed those streets.

[RightWhale]

Shane and Electric Kool-Aid are great. By all means, add me to your ping list.

[RightWhale]

it was significant that he came originally from a Southern background

After the War, many young men left the Old South. Some went to Texas, some farther West. Doc Holiday was one of those. Military experience, but had enough of war. Still could act in a deadly manner if required. Shane may have been one of those. If so, possibly from Georgia.

Zane Gray also wrote a biographical novel of George Washington as a young man, and put a lot of the old frontier ethics into George, even though the frontier was a lot closer to the east coast then.

[parsifal]

I was taken with the sexual undertones of the novel. I suspect a menage a trois was going on between the Starretts and Shane. Note all the latent showing out between Joe and Shane "pulling the stump." ( I am serious, here!)

Or this tidbit from page 80 of my book: "Did ever a
woman have have two such men?" The two men stared at her and then at each other in that adult knowledge beyond my understanding.Shane rose and stepped over by my mother. He put a hand gently on her head and I felt his fingers in my hair and the affection flooding through me. He walked quietly out the door and into the night.

skip skip skip.

"Do you think I don't know, Marian?" [Joe Starrett]

"Don't fret yourself Marian. I'm man enough to know a better when his trail meets mine. Whatever happens will be all right."[Joe Starrett]

Another possibility is that Shane is Bobby's father. This would mean that Marian and Shane knew each other in the past. This would explain the time and attention that Shane lavished with Bobby.

All in all, a darn good read. parsy.

[Travis McGee]

Please add me to your ping list.

[parsifal]

Another interesting thing: I was trying to search the 'net and see if anybody else thought there was a lot more sex than met the eye to Shane. I found this link between Shane and AYN RAND:

BIOGRAPHY

Novelist Erika Holzer hails from a long line of lawyers in upstate New York. She received a B.S. degree from Cornell University and a Juris Doctor degree from the New York University School of Law. After practicing labor law with the Madison Avenue firm of Battle, Fowler, Stokes & Kheel and teaching Labor Relations at Fairleigh Dickinson University in New Jersey, for a number of years she practiced constitutional, administrative and appellate law with her husband, Henry Mark Holzer.

She and her husband devoted part of their law practice to human rights cases, such as: their pro bono representation in 1980 of Walter Polovchak, the 12-year-old "littlest defector" whose 6-year battle against being forced to leave Chicago and return to the Soviet Union ended in his attaining American citizenship; their pro bono representation in l991 of Desert Storm Army reservist Jacqueline Ortiz, whose sexual assault by her First Sergeant led to his discharge from the Army.

In the 60s, Ms. Holzer and her husband also represented novelist/philosopher Ayn Rand and, on Ms. Rand's behalf, recovered her lost film classic, the 1941 Italian-made "Noi Vivi," based on Ms. Rand's first novel WE THE LIVING. Together with Duncan Scott Productions, the Holzers restored "Noi Vivi" and in l988 co-produced a widely acclaimed art film version, with a subtitled script by Erika Holzer and Duncan Scott.

Leaving law for full time fiction and non-fiction writing, Ms. Holzer authored numerous articles, syndicated columns, book and movie reviews, educational film scripts, and several short stories. Her anaylsis of the classic Western SHANE by Jack Schaefer was reprinted as a study guide in the HEATH GUIDE TO COLLEGE WRITING. She is currently co-author with her husband "Aid and Comfort: Jane Fonda in North Vietnam" (McFarlandpub.com). (see website www.hanoijane.net).

Erika Holzer's first novel DOUBLE CROSSING (Putnam, hard; Tor/St. Martin's, soft) was a Literary Guild alternate with numerous foreign editions and a host of prominent endorsers, among them: Mary Higgins Clark, Robert Littell, Arthur Hailey, Harry Crews, Allen Drury, Phyllis A. Whitney and Barry Goldwater.

Ms. Holzer's subsequent novel EYE FOR AN EYE (Tor/St. Martin's/Forge, hard & soft) was a Brilliance uncondensed audio with foreign editions and such prominent endorsers as: Nelson DeMille, Ed McBain, Sandra Scoppettone, Barbara D'Amato, and Dorothy Salisbury Davis. Film rights were purchased by Paramount's Sherry Lansing, and the feature film "Eye For An Eye," directed by John Schlesinger and starring Sally Field and Kiefer Sutherland, was released in 1996 and is often replayed on television.

While hardcover editions of both novels are out of print, they are currently available in trade paperback as part of the New York Authors Guild back-in-print program. Both DOUBLE CROSSING, an espionage thriller with a human rights theme, and EYE FOR AN EYE, a suspense thriller with a criminal justice theme, may be purchased at Ms. Holzer's website www.erikaholzer.com, from www.iUniverse.com, or from the online "bookstores" of Barnes & Noble and Amazon.

[Leper Messiah]

Please add me as well to the list. Is there a list of future books on the list ??

[Samwise]

Please put me on your reading ping list. I probably won't get to Shane in time, but I should be able to get to speed on Electric Kool-Aid. Thanks!

[summer]

A+ for you on leading this book discussion.

[Auntie Mame]

One last comment: Looking back, the quaity of the writing was really superb at times. The fight scenes were brilliantly rendered. Better than the movies. No way could a movie convey a fight like this book did. And while the book could easily have slipped into a maudlin preachiness, and at times came perilously close, it never went too far.

[Damocles]

Looks like I missed the first assignment. Please add me to the ping list for the upcoming books.

Thanks!