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Freeper Reading Club Discussion: Shane
Self | August 12, 2002 | PJ-Comix

Posted on 08/12/2002 5:19:09 AM PDT by PJ-Comix

Okay, today is the due date for the first book discussion of the Freeper Reading Club: Shane. I picked this book as the leadoff book for several reasons. One is that it is a great short novel. I also picked it because it was a quick easy read and would be an easy way for folks out there to get used to reading book assignments for the reading club.

The next book is longer at 400 pages, The Electric Acid Kool-Aid Test by Tom Wolfe, although it is a VERY ENTERTAINING read. Remember, The Electric Acid Kool-Aid Test discussion is due September 9.

If you want to become a member of the Freeper Reading Club, just Freepmail me or post your request here and I'll put you on the Freeper Reading Club Ping List.


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KEYWORDS: shane
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I have several observations about Shane which I'll make later. Mainly I want to read your observations about this book.

I'll lead off with a brief observation. The one thing that got to me when reading this book is whether the character of Shane is entirely mythological or if there was anyone in real life like Shane. My thought is that there was in the character of Robert E. Lee. Like Shane, Lee was tortured by the violence he saw. Following the Civil War, Lee (unlike most other generals), NEVER wrote or talked about his military participation in that War. My guess is that, as Shane was a great gunfighter and Lee was a great general, Lee was ultimately repulsed by the violence. We can perhaps understand Shane's reluctance to engage in violent gunfighting again in much the same way that Lee would have reacted if he had been called to arms again. Also, although Shane was vague about his background, it was significant that he came originally from a Southern background and may even have been something of an aristocrat like Lee.

OK, maybe this Shane/Lee comparison is a stretch but for some reason the similarity in character struck me.

1 posted on 08/12/2002 5:19:10 AM PDT by PJ-Comix
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To: Bahbah; contessa machiaveli; BADJOE; Mr.Clark; Betty Jane; Orblivion; Non-Sequitur; dixie sass; ...
Time for your observations and discussions. POST AWAY!
2 posted on 08/12/2002 5:20:15 AM PDT by PJ-Comix
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To: PJ-Comix
I read the book (1st time) and then read it to the kids.

I was drawn to the description of the different farms and their prosperity level. The most prosperous small farmer becomes the leader while the others are followers. Strong work ethic, intelligence and planning, a refusal to quit, reliability and honesty were characteristics that made Dad a true man.

3 posted on 08/12/2002 6:23:40 AM PDT by Geoffrey
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To: PJ-Comix
Good book. Any idea of where it was set. I don't believe it said, but my guess is Wyoming.
4 posted on 08/12/2002 6:27:10 AM PDT by ForOurFuture
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To: PJ-Comix
Morning all!

First of all, I want to thank PJ for putting Shane on the list for the first book; it was a great read. I have never been big into Western novels, but as PJ stated before, this is much more than a tale of the old West.

What I got out of the book was this message: Everyone has the potental in their lives to improve and/or redeem themselves. This was shown evident clearest in Shane himself. Though everyone in the family looked up to Shane for the qualities he posessed that they wished they could have, Shane himself, tried to redeem his shady past, and though he failed at his redeemption by "playing farmer" as he put it, he eventually did redeem himself by being the one to take out the villian.

Shane was not the only one to find an epiphaniy, so to speak; Joe, the farmer realized how to be a better man/leader/. Bob knew enough to "grow up straight" after having watched Shane. And even Chris, knew that even though he was a lesser man, had a chance to do the right thing, and offer himself to Joe after Shane left. There are other examples, but these are the ones that stuck with me the most.
again, this was a great (and surprisingly quick) read, that touched on the topics of triumph and redeemption. This is what I took away from the book.

Just my 1/50th of a dollar...
order_of_reason

5 posted on 08/12/2002 6:37:15 AM PDT by order_of_reason
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To: PJ-Comix
Yeah, put me on the ping list. I'll try to find the Kool-aid Test in time for the next discussion.
6 posted on 08/12/2002 6:47:28 AM PDT by Dales
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To: PJ-Comix
I was quite surprised at how much I enjoyed this book. Westerns are one of the last books I would choose to read. It was well written and I completely forgot I was reading a western.

I, too, wondered while reading this book if Shane could be a real person. The story was more real to me believing that he was.

One thing I couldn't quite figure out was what Shane might be still be running from. Does anyone have any ideas on this? If he had felt he redeemed himself, it seems as though he would stop running. But the way he left I had the impression he was still running.
7 posted on 08/12/2002 6:50:31 AM PDT by luv2lurkhere
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To: ForOurFuture
Any idea of where it was set. I don't believe it said, but my guess is Wyoming.

It was Wyoming and the year was 1889 which I think is VERY SIGNIFANT. The reason is that the census of 1890 showed that the Frontier was officially closed. Shane represented an end of an era. Ironically, his heart was really with the cattlemen. If you note at the beginning of the story that Shane could have rode towards the farm or towards the cattle ranch. He chose the farm, much to his later bemusement.

True, the cattle baron was portrayed as the bad guy but you can tell that the author had a note of sympathy for the cattlemen's life. Even Joe worked as a cowboy but, as "civilization" intruded, chose farming. So this book is also interesting on the level of the farmers vs the cattle ranchers which was actually was a big point of contention back in Wyoming of that time. I think there were some elements of an ethnic conflict (not mentioned in Shane) as well. Most of the farmer settlers were German or Scandinavian while the cattlemen were mostly Scotch-Irish or English background. The latter looked down on farming but the former thought of the cattlemen as wasteful of resources. I sort of know about this because I once wrote a paper on immigration trends in the Old West. Also I worked on a ranch (actually a farm) in Montana once and I noticed that this divide still exists on a lesser scale to this day.

p.s. One little known fact of the Old West. Many of the cattle barons were actually British aristocrats looking for an exciting investment. This was especially true in Wyoming and Montana.

8 posted on 08/12/2002 6:53:21 AM PDT by PJ-Comix
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To: luv2lurkhere
Westerns are one of the last books I would choose to read. It was well written and I completely forgot I was reading a western.

That's why I chose Shane. Also it is a quick book to read and I figure it would be an easy way to ease folks into the Reading Club.

One thing I couldn't quite figure out was what Shane might be still be running from.

Unlike the movies, being a gunfighter wasn't very glamous. Most, like Wild Bill Hickock, ended up in a bad way. Wyatt Earp was perhaps an exception but he ended up marrying well so that saved him from the usual gunfighter's fate which his other brothers met.

9 posted on 08/12/2002 6:57:59 AM PDT by PJ-Comix
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To: luv2lurkhere
If he had felt he redeemed himself, it seems as though he would stop running.

But again, Shane knew throughout his time with the family that he was only 'playing farmer' as he put it. Part of his redeemption may have been doing that one good thing, that would put his sins behind him, and then moving on with his life.

I am not arguing your poing (a good one too!), just bringing up a possibliity

10 posted on 08/12/2002 7:12:48 AM PDT by order_of_reason
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To: order_of_reason
I like your point about doing the one good thing to put his sins behind, but I can't help but think that there may be more. I don't think it is really important to the point of the book though, it is just a question I had in the back of mind as I was reading. There were definitely positive lessons to take from the book.
11 posted on 08/12/2002 7:55:01 AM PDT by luv2lurkhere
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To: PJ-Comix
I'd like to comment, even though I'm not quite finished with the book (right now Shane is on his way to town with his gun strapped to his hip).

This good vs. evil story is about appearances, strength, character, sacrifice, friendship, goodness, a man's nature ("It is not in the nature of a mother's back, to let the baby fall" -- African proverb), and love. When Shane rides into the Skerrit's farm, Joe Skerrit sees past the appearance of a dangerous man and inside, deep to his soul and recognizes a purity and goodness that is familiar, because he, too, has these qualities and his friends and neighbors, although good people, do not have this strength of character. He wants this man to stay, perhaps because his presence makes him a better person.

As the story progresses the characters are called upon to sacrifice for each other and for their friendship. Shane gives the ultimate sacrifice by going back to his violent roots, something he has been running away from, to save his friend and coincidentally, all the neighboring farmers.

I was struck and somewhat puzzled at times by the characters in the book who would become enraged to the point of giving up their lives because of words, one farmer being shot just because he let a gunfighter's taunts get him so worked up that he suicidally tried to outdraw this professional gunfighter. I thought of hubby, who if someone said things similar (i.e., in the story the rancher's men said the farmers stank and called them "pig farmers") would have made a joke and laughed it off.

Very good read (so far) and interesting. I should finish the book today and may have further comments.

Very good idea PJ, thanks. I enjoy very much reading everyone's comments.
12 posted on 08/12/2002 7:56:35 AM PDT by Auntie Mame
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To: Auntie Mame
I was struck and somewhat puzzled at times by the characters in the book who would become enraged to the point of giving up their lives because of words, one farmer being shot just because he let a gunfighter's taunts get him so worked up that he suicidally tried to outdraw this professional gunfighter.

Actually this was a very common reason for gun duels back then. Honor was involved.

BTW, the classic movie type gun duels in the Old West were very rare. The reason being that the big gun showdown was almost always limited to gentlemen gun duels over honor which were sort of formal affairs attended by seconds. Usually the parties were given an easy out by the seconds so they could preserve their honor but not actually have to shoot it out (or they would just shoot straight into the air). However, often neither side would back down so the gun duel would go on. The most famous such gun duel was when Vice President Aaron Burr gunned down former Treasury Secretary Alexander Hamilton. So in a way, the classic gun duel of the old West was played out by these two gentlemen---only it was in the "effete" East.

13 posted on 08/12/2002 8:05:12 AM PDT by PJ-Comix
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To: luv2lurkhere
One interesting thing here not in the movie. The gunfighter Wilson was just a shade too fast. He was able to draw quickly enougn to wound Shane. In the movie, Wilson was unable to hit Shane who was wounded by someone using a rifle from above. I think there is significance in the fact that Wilson was able to draw fast enough to wound Shane. Notice how Bobby made Shane say that Wilson couldn't have drawn fast enough to hit him if Shane had been in practice. Shane knows this wasn't really the case but agrees with Bobby to humor him.
14 posted on 08/12/2002 8:15:51 AM PDT by PJ-Comix
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To: order_of_reason
I liked the way everything was told through the eyes of young Bobby. I don't think the story would have worked well otherwise.

One other note. Although Alan Ladd did a good job portraying Shane, I thought the PERFECT Shane would have been another actor in the same movie---Ben Johnson. To me, he is more like the Shane character in the book. In the movie he portrayed Chris.

15 posted on 08/12/2002 9:50:19 AM PDT by PJ-Comix
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To: PJ-Comix
I'm taking my lunch break at work right now so I'll quickly post some thoughts on Shane and then perhaps extend my remarks later on tonight and join the discussion.

First of all, thank you for turning me on to this book. This is a book that I never would have discovered if not for your recommendation (which is what reading clubs is all about). After all, the book was in the "teen" section at Barnes & Noble and even the cover art of the book itself suggested that it was a book for kids. But there is some fine writing here and I think the average teenager would find this rather challenging. More so than your typical Louis L'Amour book (which are found in the adult section).

There are some important themes running through this book that have application in today's world. The first theme is that one must face up to and confront danger. The danger is not going to "go away" simply because you wish to adopt a live and let live approach to life, as Shane wanted to start doing. It is better to face danger and risk death then to run from it, as you would be broken and unable to live with yourself afterwards.

Another theme is that pacifism only ensures your own destruction. You must be prepared to defend yourself against your adversaries. You cannot expect to get along with them or allow them to "buy you off." For once you allow them to, you will have sold your soul to them.

In the book, Shane "swears" off gun-fighting and refuses to carry his gun or even use it. As a result, when the time comes that he is forced to use his gun again, he is "rusty" and it results in his injury and perhaps death, but we will never know that as he rode out of town. Even if you do not plan to be the aggressor, it is important that you "keep your swords sharp" or you will be made to pay the price.

The real hero in the book for me is Joe Starrett. He has courage, wisdom, judgment, strength and perseverance. All traits that made America great. And in her own way, Joe's wife is just as strong. After all, it was Mrs. Starrett that convinced Shane to stay and fight the ranchers. I detected something going on between Shane and Mrs. Starrett as well. Not anything overtly sexual, but it is clear that had Mrs. Starrett not been spoken for, Shane would have had an interest.

I was struck by the "tree trump" scene in the book in which Joe Starrett and Shane wordlessly chopped up the huge tree stump that was in the yard. The stump evidently wasn't hurting anything but it was THERE and the farm wouldn't be perfect until it was removed. Removing that stump represented Joe's desire to completely dominate his environment and that NOTHING was going to stand in his way. As well, Mrs. Starrett has the same determination to master her environment. When her "perfect pie" was burnt due to her watching Shane and Joe work, she insisted upon making another one while Shane and Joe ate and would not move from the stove (or eat herself) until it was done. This sheer determination to overcome obstacles and achieve the goal at hand is also what makes America great.

I also have comments about the boy but I'll save them for tonight. Time to get back to work!

16 posted on 08/12/2002 10:18:40 AM PDT by SamAdams76
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To: luv2lurkhere
One thing I couldn't quite figure out was what Shane might be still be running from.

What?
A guilty conscience.

17 posted on 08/12/2002 10:30:49 AM PDT by ppaul
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To: PJ-Comix
I also meant to comment on the redemption of Chris, which is another key theme in the story. Chris was on the side of the ranchers and would taunt and insult the farmers. He was clearly an enemy. But Shane recognized that there were good qualities in Chris and that he only had the misfortune to pick the wrong crowd to hang with. However, Chris continued to provoke Shane until they had to fight. Even after having beat Chris to a pulp, Shane was the only one in the room who bothered to help Chris off the floor and nurse his wounds.

I think that many people in the world are like Chris. They are not bad people but they fall in with the wrong sort of people. Turning enemies into friends is another virtue that made America what it is. Look at the relationship we managed to build with post-war Germany and Japan for example! No other nation in the history of the world has had such a history of turning bitter enemies into allies. Nations and peoples have been fighting each other for hundreds and even thousands of years in other parts of the world. Not so with America. We fight like hell and then we make up afterwards (once the "bad" element has been vanquished). Will we one day be allies with countries like Iraq and Iran after the coming war is over and the evil tyrants have been deposed? Time will tell but I'm not ruling it out.

Okay, back to work or else I'll find myself writing reviews full-time!

18 posted on 08/12/2002 10:33:20 AM PDT by SamAdams76
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To: ppaul
A guilty conscience.

I didn't see Shane quite that way. Not being familiar with gunfighters (LOL!) I assume that Shane would be seen as a challenge. Sure, many would be afraid of his skill, but there would be others who would want to prove themselves.

Shane knew he could be deadly. And if pushed he would have to be. So he tried to avoid it, kind of in the same way a full grown man would avoid a fist fight with a young hotheaded kid. That kind of skill brings a responsibility and I saw Shane as always weighing his honor and the honor of those he loved against the responsibility he felt to use his skills in a moral way.

19 posted on 08/12/2002 11:18:48 AM PDT by Dianna
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To: PJ-Comix
Thanks for recommending this book! I started out reading it aloud with my 10 year old son, then I got busy and stopped. He continued reading it on his own.

It's like pulling teeth to get him to read something new! He really enjoyed it.

20 posted on 08/12/2002 11:21:27 AM PDT by Dianna
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To: PJ-Comix
Definitely a book about character. A key line, as I recall,
"It's not what a man knows that's important, it's who he is..."
21 posted on 08/12/2002 12:30:47 PM PDT by Dusty Rose
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To: PJ-Comix
"...(Shane) lead the horse over to the trough. He pumped it almost full and let the horse sink its nose in the cool water before he picked up the dipper for himself."

I loved Shane from the first chapter. The only thing better than the barroom brawl was the gunfight. Whoa.

22 posted on 08/12/2002 1:16:55 PM PDT by shetlan
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To: PJ-Comix
Well I ended up reading Shane in two nights, then rented the movie.

In terms of the history of the Western, I'm not sure where Shane fits in. It certainly felt like an archetype of the Clint Eastwood movies many of us love so well. The mysterious stranger rides into town with a clouded past and a good heart. He takes up with little folks who are being abused by the bigger interests and helps even the playing field a bit. This type of story is very attractive and it certainly worked on me. I enjoyed reading it a great deal.

A couple of themes I really appreciated:

• The notion that hard work is a virtue and that hard workers appreciate the efforts of others of the same stripe on some kind of innate level. For anyone having worked in a modern office environment, this sort of camaraderie is often non-existent, particularly where unionization is heavy. Work is considered a vice and only suckers work their guts out.

• The idea that you shouldn't tread on a man just because he appears smaller or outnumbered. It could come back to bite you. While not unique to American Lit, it's certainly an attractive notion.

• The idea that men respect a fighter. I loved the scene where Chris, whom Shane had absolutely stomped earlier, came to respect and understand where Shane and Joe were coming from even to the point where he signed on as Joe's hired man at the end.

• The notion that one should have excellent fighting skills and do all in your power to avoid using them. Of course, this idea is also not uniquely American (as anyone trained in martial arts knows), it is a good, solid lesson based on the ancient maxim, "If you wish for peace, prepare for war."
The movie also had an interesting scene that was not present in the book where Shane was explaining to Bobby that a gun is no better or worse than the man using it -- that a gun is a tool. This is a sentiment that I've heard many times on FR and have made myself on occasion.

On the negative side, I thought the implied "sexual tension" between Shane and Mrs. Starret was unnecessary and added little to the story. I'm still trying to figure out why the author bothered injecting it in there. Any ideas?

Overall, though, I thoroughly enjoyed reading Shane. Great pick.
23 posted on 08/12/2002 1:44:24 PM PDT by Antoninus
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To: PJ-Comix
One interesting thing here not in the movie. The gunfighter Wilson was just a shade too fast. He was able to draw quickly enougn to wound Shane. In the movie, Wilson was unable to hit Shane who was wounded by someone using a rifle from above.

You know, I read and re-read that part several times and I came away thinking that Wilson actually hadn't been able to hit Shane in the book -- that it only appeared that he hit Shane, but that the bullet had actually come from the balcony. Was I wrong?
24 posted on 08/12/2002 1:49:28 PM PDT by Antoninus
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To: PJ-Comix
This book discussion is a great idea...thanks for creating this thread.

The most moving part for me was when the boy, Bob encountered Shane just before the gunfight at the saloon.
Shane talks to him about the beauty & importance of the land.

IMHO there was a longing in Shane to be part of that 'land' and this added to his desire to help Starrette & his family keep the farm.

He also wanted Bob to have a chance to grow up in a stable family and make roots in the community. One thing that surprised me was Starrette's suggestion that the family take off for another place. It seemed 'out of character'.

'Shane' was so beautifully written. I loved the simplicity and honesty. I wondered if the author, Schaefer had any other successful books?

I wish there would be a remake of the film Shane but the message it contains is not PC.....the 'government' isn't always there to protect you from evil men and therefore 'good men' need to be self-reliant and have 'good tools'.

I saw this first hand in the LA riots when the Korean shopkeepers stood on the roofs of their businesses with their rifles locked & loaded. The rioters bypassed those streets.

25 posted on 08/12/2002 1:50:00 PM PDT by JulieRNR21
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To: Dianna
It's like pulling teeth to get him to read something new! He really enjoyed it.

This is one reason why I led off the Freeper Reading Club with Shane. Many people are not used to reading whole books so I started off with an easy read to give them confidence to read the other books. The next one, Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test is a longer book but it is a fun (and funny) read. As the confidence levels build up, I will be assigning even more challenging books. Don't worry. They will ALL be interesting reads because I won't be assigning books that I didn't read before.

26 posted on 08/12/2002 3:58:17 PM PDT by PJ-Comix
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To: Antoninus
The movie also had an interesting scene that was not present in the book where Shane was explaining to Bobby that a gun is no better or worse than the man using it -- that a gun is a tool.

Maybe not in your copy of the book but in my copy on page 36 this is what Shane says:

"Listen, Bob. A gun is just a tool. No better and no worse than any other tool, a shovel--or an axe or a saddle or a stove or anything. Think of it always that way. A gun is as good--and as bad--as the man who carries it. Remember that."

This is one reason why you won't be seeing Shane as a reading assignment in public schools today. BTW, for you home schoolers, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND Shane as a reading assignment.

27 posted on 08/12/2002 4:06:00 PM PDT by PJ-Comix
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To: Antoninus
You know, I read and re-read that part several times and I came away thinking that Wilson actually hadn't been able to hit Shane in the book -- that it only appeared that he hit Shane, but that the bullet had actually come from the balcony. Was I wrong?

I reread it and the wound definitely came from Wilson. It was just about his belt to one side of the buckle which means it was a much more serious wound than that in the movie which means there was a greater likelihood that Shane wouldn't survive.

28 posted on 08/12/2002 4:12:31 PM PDT by PJ-Comix
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To: Antoninus
On the negative side, I thought the implied "sexual tension" between Shane and Mrs. Starret was unnecessary and added little to the story. I'm still trying to figure out why the author bothered injecting it in there. Any ideas?

Just one. In chapter 13 Joe Starret is speaking.

“I can’t see the full finish. But I can see this. Wilson down and there’ll be an end to it. Fletcher’ll be done. The town will see to that. I can’t beat Wilson on the draw. But there’s strength enough in this clumsy body of mine to keep me on my feet till I get him, too.” Mother stirred and was still, and his voice went on. “Things could be worse. It helps a man to know that if anything happens to him, his family will be in better hands then his own."

Shane being there gave Joe the peace to do what he felt he had to do. No matter what happened he knew that Shane would look out for his family.

As for Shane it was his moment of truth. He was offered everything he wanted in that moment. Everything that was Joe's would be his. All he had to do was, nothing.

Instead he chose to take Joe's place knowing he could die and also knowing that he would lose everything even if he survived.

In a odd way the theme of this book is "Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.” Joe for the other farmers and Shane and Shane for Joe.

a.cricket

29 posted on 08/12/2002 4:37:07 PM PDT by another cricket
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To: PJ-Comix
Shane and Electric Kool-Aid are great. By all means, add me to your ping list.
30 posted on 08/12/2002 4:39:47 PM PDT by RightWhale
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To: RightWhale
Done.
31 posted on 08/12/2002 5:04:01 PM PDT by PJ-Comix
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To: PJ-Comix
Oh, my God - I just wrote a book and it didn't post. Can't believe it!!!
32 posted on 08/12/2002 5:13:08 PM PDT by WHATNEXT?
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To: PJ-Comix
Is there a way to retrieve it?
33 posted on 08/12/2002 5:17:55 PM PDT by WHATNEXT?
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To: WHATNEXT?
That happened to me a few times and I know how frustrating that can be! What I do now is when I am composing a long post, I do it in Notepad (saving regularly) and then cut and paste it here when I'm done.
34 posted on 08/12/2002 5:21:17 PM PDT by SamAdams76
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To: PJ-Comix
it was significant that he came originally from a Southern background

After the War, many young men left the Old South. Some went to Texas, some farther West. Doc Holiday was one of those. Military experience, but had enough of war. Still could act in a deadly manner if required. Shane may have been one of those. If so, possibly from Georgia.

Zane Gray also wrote a biographical novel of George Washington as a young man, and put a lot of the old frontier ethics into George, even though the frontier was a lot closer to the east coast then.

35 posted on 08/12/2002 5:25:07 PM PDT by RightWhale
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To: RightWhale
Doc Holiday was one of those.

Doc Holliday was the fiance of one of Margaret ("Gone With The WInd") Mitchell's cousins. I believe she based the character of Melanie on this cousin. He left her to go West and she never recovered. I read something about this in a biography of Margaret Mitchell.

36 posted on 08/12/2002 5:48:57 PM PDT by PJ-Comix
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To: SamAdams76
Well this one will be shorter (probably making it better)(I hope.)

Since this book was probably written in 1948, published in 1949, I see many themes of the WWII movies. Doing the right thing, fighting only when you have to, reluctant heros.

You also have a Connecticut author that is adding to the mystification of the West and its strong silent characters.

Shane's illustrations brought back my childhood moments of reading books with wonderful drawings. I would return time and again to the pictures to look for more details.

Did you notice that most of the characters have names like, - Joe, Sam, Bob, Chris - but the two gunmen are named Shane and Stark (both start with S, same number of letters but Stark is well --- Starker).

How about that karate kick - I was truly surprised. A book from the 40's had a kick to the head.

You have to confess that some things were just too dramatically overdone. Like, ""..that he killed Wilson before they got him (Shane). I know. HE WAS SHANE." Or, "No bullet can kill that man." Hero, hero, writ very large.

I wonder if "What a Wonderful Life," lifted this from Shane "He's not gone. He's here, in this place, in this place he gave us. He's all around us and in us and he always will be."

Could those who rented the movie refresh my memory about the famous "Shane, Shane, come back." At least that's how I recall it. The closest in the book was, "Shane," I whispered desperately, loud as I dared without the men inside hearing me. "Oh, Shane!"

I don't think Shane was from a Southern aristocratic background. His family moved from Missouri to Arkansas and he left when he was 15. I think one of the most revealing lines spoken by Shane is, "A man is what he is...no breaking the mold...a real man behind him (Bob's father) the kind that could back him (Bob) for the chance another kid (Shane) never had."
37 posted on 08/12/2002 6:01:14 PM PDT by WHATNEXT?
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To: WHATNEXT?
I wonder if "What a Wonderful Life," lifted this from Shane "He's not gone. He's here, in this place, in this place he gave us. He's all around us and in us and he always will be."

Actually this sounds somewhat New Testament Biblical. I don't think I have to spell it out for you.

38 posted on 08/12/2002 6:25:02 PM PDT by PJ-Comix
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To: PJ-Comix
Well, yes one way of viewing it.
39 posted on 08/12/2002 6:33:22 PM PDT by WHATNEXT?
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To: another cricket
As for Shane it was his moment of truth. He was offered everything he wanted in that moment. Everything that was Joe's would be his. All he had to do was, nothing.

Yes, yes, yes. You hit it right on the head.

Excellent!

40 posted on 08/12/2002 6:43:30 PM PDT by Auntie Mame
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To: PJ-Comix
Did you notice on page 6 Shane's description has him with "long dark hair." Not in the illustration and not in the movie. Interesting.
41 posted on 08/12/2002 6:43:47 PM PDT by WHATNEXT?
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To: PJ-Comix
This was something I have never heard of, "It was black, almost DUE black..." Talking of Shane's gun .. what is DUE black? Looked it up and didn't find anything appropriate.
42 posted on 08/12/2002 6:52:11 PM PDT by WHATNEXT?
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To: PJ-Comix
Do you really think God=Shane? A bit more than intended I think.
43 posted on 08/12/2002 7:07:13 PM PDT by WHATNEXT?
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To: WHATNEXT?
Did you notice on page 6 Shane's description has him with "long dark hair." Not in the illustration and not in the movie. Interesting.

I didn't find that as problematic as the fact that Alan Ladd was only about five feet tall. And what was with using a golden Palomino in the movie instead of a dark horse?

44 posted on 08/12/2002 7:07:52 PM PDT by PJ-Comix
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To: PJ-Comix
I was taken with the sexual undertones of the novel. I suspect a menage a trois was going on between the Starretts and Shane. Note all the latent showing out between Joe and Shane "pulling the stump." ( I am serious, here!)

Or this tidbit from page 80 of my book: "Did ever a
woman have have two such men?" The two men stared at her and then at each other in that adult knowledge beyond my understanding.Shane rose and stepped over by my mother. He put a hand gently on her head and I felt his fingers in my hair and the affection flooding through me. He walked quietly out the door and into the night.

skip skip skip.

"Do you think I don't know, Marian?" [Joe Starrett]

"Don't fret yourself Marian. I'm man enough to know a better when his trail meets mine. Whatever happens will be all right."[Joe Starrett]

Another possibility is that Shane is Bobby's father. This would mean that Marian and Shane knew each other in the past. This would explain the time and attention that Shane lavished with Bobby.

All in all, a darn good read. parsy.
45 posted on 08/12/2002 7:08:28 PM PDT by parsifal
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To: WHATNEXT?
Do you really think God=Shane?

Well, that quote in the book about Shane always being in us sure sounded that way.

46 posted on 08/12/2002 7:09:11 PM PDT by PJ-Comix
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To: PJ-Comix
Please add me to your ping list.
47 posted on 08/12/2002 7:11:43 PM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: parsifal
I was taken with the sexual undertones of the novel. I suspect a menage a trois was going on between the Starretts and Shane. Note all the latent showing out between Joe and Shane "pulling the stump."

I think you are reading too much into that stump allusion. As Freud once said, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

48 posted on 08/12/2002 7:12:00 PM PDT by PJ-Comix
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To: PJ-Comix
Another interesting thing: I was trying to search the 'net and see if anybody else thought there was a lot more sex than met the eye to Shane. I found this link between Shane and AYN RAND:

BIOGRAPHY

Novelist Erika Holzer hails from a long line of lawyers in upstate New York. She received a B.S. degree from Cornell University and a Juris Doctor degree from the New York University School of Law. After practicing labor law with the Madison Avenue firm of Battle, Fowler, Stokes & Kheel and teaching Labor Relations at Fairleigh Dickinson University in New Jersey, for a number of years she practiced constitutional, administrative and appellate law with her husband, Henry Mark Holzer.

She and her husband devoted part of their law practice to human rights cases, such as: their pro bono representation in 1980 of Walter Polovchak, the 12-year-old "littlest defector" whose 6-year battle against being forced to leave Chicago and return to the Soviet Union ended in his attaining American citizenship; their pro bono representation in l991 of Desert Storm Army reservist Jacqueline Ortiz, whose sexual assault by her First Sergeant led to his discharge from the Army.

In the 60s, Ms. Holzer and her husband also represented novelist/philosopher Ayn Rand and, on Ms. Rand's behalf, recovered her lost film classic, the 1941 Italian-made "Noi Vivi," based on Ms. Rand's first novel WE THE LIVING. Together with Duncan Scott Productions, the Holzers restored "Noi Vivi" and in l988 co-produced a widely acclaimed art film version, with a subtitled script by Erika Holzer and Duncan Scott.

Leaving law for full time fiction and non-fiction writing, Ms. Holzer authored numerous articles, syndicated columns, book and movie reviews, educational film scripts, and several short stories. Her anaylsis of the classic Western SHANE by Jack Schaefer was reprinted as a study guide in the HEATH GUIDE TO COLLEGE WRITING. She is currently co-author with her husband "Aid and Comfort: Jane Fonda in North Vietnam" (McFarlandpub.com). (see website www.hanoijane.net).

Erika Holzer's first novel DOUBLE CROSSING (Putnam, hard; Tor/St. Martin's, soft) was a Literary Guild alternate with numerous foreign editions and a host of prominent endorsers, among them: Mary Higgins Clark, Robert Littell, Arthur Hailey, Harry Crews, Allen Drury, Phyllis A. Whitney and Barry Goldwater.

Ms. Holzer's subsequent novel EYE FOR AN EYE (Tor/St. Martin's/Forge, hard & soft) was a Brilliance uncondensed audio with foreign editions and such prominent endorsers as: Nelson DeMille, Ed McBain, Sandra Scoppettone, Barbara D'Amato, and Dorothy Salisbury Davis. Film rights were purchased by Paramount's Sherry Lansing, and the feature film "Eye For An Eye," directed by John Schlesinger and starring Sally Field and Kiefer Sutherland, was released in 1996 and is often replayed on television.

While hardcover editions of both novels are out of print, they are currently available in trade paperback as part of the New York Authors Guild back-in-print program. Both DOUBLE CROSSING, an espionage thriller with a human rights theme, and EYE FOR AN EYE, a suspense thriller with a criminal justice theme, may be purchased at Ms. Holzer's website www.erikaholzer.com, from www.iUniverse.com, or from the online "bookstores" of Barnes & Noble and Amazon.


49 posted on 08/12/2002 7:13:13 PM PDT by parsifal
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To: PJ-Comix
I am not so sure. Page 36: "Shane carried no gun."

A gun is a well known phallic symbol. Shane had a gun and was better with his gun than Joe Starrett. Was Shane metaphorically neutering himself? parsy.
50 posted on 08/12/2002 7:18:58 PM PDT by parsifal
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