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IRAQ REBUILDS SITES THAT MAKE NERVE-GAS INGREDIENTS
New York Post ^
| NILES LATHEM
Posted on 08/19/2002 1:35:04 AM PDT by kattracks
Edited on 05/26/2004 5:08:12 PM PDT by Jim Robinson.
Satellite pix show that three chemical facilities in Iraq - Fullujah I, II and III - wrecked in the 1991 Gulf War are back in business.
August 19, 2002 -- WASHINGTON - These mysterious chemical factories northwest of Baghdad are a major reason the Bush administration thinks war with Iraq is inevitable.
(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...
TOPICS: Breaking News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: almuthanna; chemicalplant; explosives; falluja; fallujah; faluja; falujah; fulluja; fullujah; fullujahi; fullujahii; fullujahiii; hmx; nervegas; rdx; wmd
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posted on 08/19/2002 1:35:04 AM PDT
Iraqi Military Industry
||Aerial bombs, artillery pieces, and machine tool bits
||Explosives, TNT, propellants, and vehicles
||Aerial bombs, TNT, and solid rocket propellants
|April 7 (Narawan Fuse) Factory
||Proximity fuses for 155 mm and cluster munitions
|Base West World
||Major armor refitting center
||Software, controllers, and plastic castings
||HMX and RDX explosives
||Ethylene oxide for fuel-air explosives
|Sa'ad 5 (Sa'ad Engineering Complex
||122mm howitzers, Ababil rockets, tank optics and mortar sights
||Salah al Din - Ad Dawr
||Defense electronics, radars, and frequency-hopping radios
||Non-ferrous ammunition cases
||Aircraft assembly and manufacturing [under construction]
||Small naval boats
|SEHEE heavy engineering complex
||Artillery, vehicle parts, and cannon barrels
||Liquid nitrogen production
||Wheeled APCs [East European license], armor, and artillery
||Tank assembly plant [under Polish and Czech licenses]
||Cluster bombs and fuel-air explosives
nuke them till they glow.
posted on 08/19/2002 1:58:13 AM PDT
nuke them till they glow
They can kiss my American "fullujah"!
..and for the last four years, no one knows what kind of witches' brews are being concocted at the Fullujah facilities...
If 'no one knows', why is the Post declaring "IRAQ REBUILDS SITES THAT MAKE NERVE-GAS INGREDIENTS"?
I wish some of the lying journalists in their newsroom were to be leading a platoon, through the snipers of downtown Baghdad, during the war they're working so hard to promote.
Surely there are intelligence operatives in Iraq that know what is produced at these sites. Why haven't they been the target of attacks by our planes that overfly Iraq constantly?
posted on 08/19/2002 3:19:08 AM PDT
Because we are not (yet) in the business of bombing Iraqi cities.
posted on 08/19/2002 4:26:28 AM PDT
Key parts must be underground. Still, or bunker busters and earth-penetrator bombs can render them inoperable. And bury alive thier techs and scientests
posted on 08/19/2002 4:29:08 AM PDT
Surely there are intelligence operatives in Iraq that know what is produced at these sites.
posted on 08/19/2002 4:47:13 AM PDT
..surely there are intelligence operatives in Iraq that know what is produced at these sites...
You're right, Meenie.
It's the most spied upon place on earth, with a mass of intelligence available from deserters, prisoners, satellites, overflights, SIGINT, you name it. This Administration (or any other) could have taken out Saddam at will. But with the economy tanking, Mr Bush is counting on the Iraqi campaign to keep his poll figures in the green zone. It's a high-risk strategy which I think will be a disaster for his presidency, with the only winners being the Dems, the Euro-Left, and China.
"....nuke them till they glow...."
They may very well have to be nuked, no matter what they naysayers do or say.
If we bomb with conventional bombs, this stuff will spread out and go to God knows where. Nuking it, however, would alter it substantially. The heat and power of a nuke would have the best chance of destroying Sarin (or whatever), IMHO.
posted on 08/19/2002 5:19:16 AM PDT
U.S. military and intelligence officials say there is similar activity taking place at scores of other suspected chemical and biological weapons facilities throughout Iraq.
Well, how about that. Not that I sympathize with So Damn Insane or agree with his choice of weapons, but what the heck do you expect him to do - sit back and do nothing while the world holds a debate about tossing him out?
Why in the hell are you so afraid of fighting Iraq?
posted on 08/19/2002 6:28:53 AM PDT
That is baloney. To think that the only reason the President wants to go after Iraq is to boost his poll numbers is beyond ludicrous. What are you going to tell us next...that 9/11 was a terrible plot of the Jews and the CIA.
posted on 08/19/2002 6:31:09 AM PDT
..why in the hell are you so afraid of fighting Iraq?..
Lots of reasons.
*I don't want to see Mr Bush hand the Left the issue they've been waiting to coalesce around;
*I don't want to see America throw away its traditional position of being on the side of what's right, just, and good, in this cynical fashion;
*I don't want the US to become an international pariah, and;
*I don't think Iraq is worth one dead American, Brit, or Aussie boy.
WHY ARE WE WAITING? BOMBS AWAY....
You will if Iraq is left alone.
In 1994, Iraq sought permission from U.N. inspectors to get the plants up and running again, promising that only nonlethal civilian-use chemical agents would be produced at the plants.
Hmmm. Somebody's lying and I believe Saadam before I believe Bush frankly.....
posted on 08/19/2002 8:32:18 AM PDT
I haven't checked a map, but I assume it's obviously outside of the no-fly zones.
posted on 08/19/2002 9:06:56 AM PDT
what the heck do you expect him to do - sit back and do nothing while the world holds a debate about tossing him out?
What do we expect of him? He's been given every opportunity to join the civilized world--even the UN condemns him. So why the sympathy for this bad actor?
If he showed clean hands, the world would leave him alone. He's making his own fate everyday. Wouldn't be a problem except that he's got the ability to take so many with him.
posted on 08/19/2002 9:15:52 AM PDT
Do you think we like destruction and war??? ( okay maybe a bit) But you could have stood up on the streets of manhatten and said " Hey I don't want those planes to fly into those towers" and it would have had the same effect as your moronic childish statement. That has been the problem in the " international Community" Everyone stands around and says the U.S.A is a bunch of cowboys showing off. Meanwhile they allow the blood of innocents to pour down th street in the name of their god "peace" Then hitler, Mao, Stalin or whatever tyrant is up that day, starts to drag them out of their homes by their hair and raping their children, then they scream... " The United states needs to use their leadership and strength to save us.... "
Listen all you French and ( aussie) pansys, you CAN'T have it both ways. Yea it might be a B*tch to be another country and have to have the USA be the dominate culture. But you should be grateful we don't RAM it down your throats like other countries would.
"Key parts must be underground ...."
I heard a broadcast this week by an investigator familiar with HAARP ..... He said we have ability using sound waves to map every underground facility in Iraq in great detail. We did not have that capability in 1991.
We also have the ability to cook Sadaam and his army like Chistmas geese with Micrwaves and sonic pulse weapons)....
I say let's cook Saddam .... !!! .
posted on 08/19/2002 9:44:16 AM PDT
posted on 08/19/2002 10:06:23 AM PDT
Comment #24 Removed by Moderator
*I don't want to see America>>>>>>>SNIP
That's right! and you won't either until Iraq unless the threat that Saddam poses to the free world is taken out.Get real and step off the fantasy train. The quickest way to lose a war is wait for the first punch then fight. No sir. I am all for an offensive here.
So why the sympathy for this bad actor?
I have no sympathy for him, as I said in my original post. And being that he's unwilling to cooperate with the UN (for what that's worth) and the US, I expect nothing less than what he's now doing. So, if we can show good cause to attack Iraq, the rest of the world should expect nothing less - and they can sit back and watch us annihilate him.
Well, the question of "good cause" is important and worthy of debate. This is, after all, a democratic republic.
Seems to me Saddam poses a new and difficult problem. The American people don't seek war. The United States has never sought to be an aggressor nation. Good people, with all-in-all a good history to their credit.
Back in the day when we worried about the Soviet Union, we had mutually assured destruction as a deterrent. Reagan managed to dissassemble the SU by hoisting them on their own petards.
Stalin was responsible for the deaths of millions, but even he sent them to death in war or prison. Saddam Hussein, in gassing Kurds, didn't even bother to declare them enemy and give them the chance to side-up. In that case, he's even more sadistically covert than Stalin. We've seen these characters before.
So what to do with this guy? Seems to me it comes down to motive. Why does a nation like Iraq spend money on development of weapons of mass destruction? Because of Iran? National pride? i.e. They can build a bomb and play with the big boys?
No. Chemical and biological weapons are used against civilian populations. The concept of engaging in this kind of warfare is repugnant to the civilized world. Saddam Hussein knows this. It's a world he doesn't want to join. God knows, he's been given his chances.
He has the capability and he has the will to use WMD. He's proven it. So do we sit by and wait for a tyrant and merchant of fear to do something really bad? We'd be playing his game and the game of anyone who follows in his path, while the world suffers with threats. If we allowed ourselves to be lulled into complacency, how many of these monsters could we breed?
As an American, I don't like being put in this position. I don't like war. But I don't want my children and grandchildren living in fear either. So I've taken sides. Let's do God's work and get the job done.
posted on 08/19/2002 12:13:19 PM PDT
Why you're nothin but a damn appeaser. A yellow-belly. What you people don't seem to get is that if we let him go it doesn't get any easier later on. How old are you anyway? Under 21 I'm guessing because you're obviously too young to remember what was going on in the world 12 years ago. This isn't about a guy that doesn't want inspectors sniffing around in his shorts. This is about a guy that had no problem raping and pillaging a small neighbor and then setting the desert on fire when things stopped going his way -- because of the US and because he miscalculated our resolve to stop his ilk from succeeding. What did the aussies send... a platoon or two?
He made a typical muslim agreement to get us to stop shooting, never kept any part of the bargain he made, and just because it's 12 years later does NOT mean he gets a free pass, though thats the way the liberal press makes it sound.
You are a moron, and a coward, you need to STFU and read and maybe learn something on here, son. I'm breaking my own rule by going off on you because I don't have time to debate with people who wouldn't know the devil if they'd died and gone to hell, but I couldn't resist. You can shoot back but I've said my piece... Later, traitor.
posted on 08/19/2002 12:36:45 PM PDT
Precisely the response one would expect from a Libertarian. In 1921 guys like you were out in force in the Munich beerhalls.
posted on 08/19/2002 4:54:39 PM PDT
I heard a broadcast this week by an investigator familiar with HAARP
HAARP is a research facility, mainly an antenna farm to probe the ionosphere, including aurural phenomena. There isn't enough power available in Alaska to do much more than warm the ionosphere measurably over the antenna. Some imaging may be possible, but of continent-sized objects. Looking into underground facilities on the other side of the planet is nothing more than hype.
posted on 08/19/2002 5:15:55 PM PDT
You know the only ones who are going to blown to hell in this war is the Republican Guard. Why don't we just offer one of the Generals say $100 million dollars US to blown the Saddams head off. Let the Iraqies clean up their own kittey litter box.
sorry folks. My bad. I just saw the little statement about "No violence in posts" sorry about that one.
Precisely the response one would expect from a Libertarian.
Bush and his administration have been playing loose with the facts. It would be absurd to take what they have to say at face value given other readily available information including testimony by Iraq's head of nuclear weapons programs (who defected and told the story) and UN weapons inspectors who were quite candid.
posted on 08/19/2002 8:42:57 PM PDT
testimony by Iraq's head of nuclear weapons programs (who defected and told the story)
I just saw this man on TV last week and he insisted that there had been no cessation in Saddam's weapons build-up. That they were inconvenienced by the UN inspector's but in the last four years had made-up for lost time with chemical and biologicals, that Saddam has dirty bombs and was doggedly persuing long-range nuclear weapons capability.
posted on 08/19/2002 10:25:55 PM PDT
I strongly believe the best way to keep from being sniped at from buildings inside of Bagdad is to do what Julius Ceasar would do, 1)encircle the city 2)cut off it's power and water 3)cut off all transportation and food distribution 4)lay siege to it until it breaks. Surely within 3-4 mns. we could again look at options concerning surrender or complete desruction of the site. We have lost some good tools of war becoming so civilized.
During WW2 in the pacific we did just this very thing to many of the islands in the Solomons to cut down on loses and to break the enemies will, we starved many islands during those campaigns, this is no different.
..nuke them till they glow...
Good one, bozo. Yeah, 'nuke 'em', and make the US an international mad dog.
I wonder if Osama dreamed his attack might be that successful?
..to think that the only reason the President wants to go after Iraq is to boost his poll numbers is beyond ludicrous....
It's not the only reason. But you're very naive, if you think that consideration wouldn't be factored into Bush's decisions.
..everyone stands around and says the U.S.A is a bunch of cowboys showing off....
No, they don't. Most Australians have very positive views of the US and we consider ourselves your closest allies. I don't want to see those positive views change. Your post is typical of one narrow American attitude, thankfully a rare one- you've developed a chip on your shoulder, that the rest of the world is ungrateful for past US help and secretly envies the US and wants to see her laid low and humbled. That's all in your own mind. I write as a friend and as an admirer, and would say to this president if I had the chance, 'don't throw away the moral high ground, with this cynical attack on Iraq. You won't get it back.' I'll admit to a personal interest in this, because the Iraq campaign will be a gift to the international Left. Foreign conservatives like me are going to see many years worth of activism torn up by reinvigorated socialism. Matter of fact I think that's why the liberal papers are either quiescent or supportive on the President's Iraq plans. They can't wait to see him push one bridge too far.
To: My Favorite Headache
..the quickest way to lose a war is wait for the first punch then fight....
What 'first punch', MFH? Sheesh. Iraq can't even secure her own borders. Iraq doesn't even control her own airspace. Iraq was a military punching bag, during Desert Storm.
'First punch', for crying out loud. And from you, known here as a rational type. Fair dinkum, the most distressing aspect of this Iraq idiocy has been to observe that much of our side is just as susceptible to Bush's spin as the soccer moms were for Clinton's.
..why you're nothin but a damn appeaser. A yellow-belly...
John, I won't dignify this idiocy with a serious response. I might point out that your posts sound more than usually silly when you're watchingTrue Grit while freeping. Seeya pilgrim.
I appreciate the compliment. However I call it gut instinct this time. I am not looking forward to seeing Israeli's slaughtered in the tens of thousands. I think Saddam is going to unleash everything he can before U.S. jets pound him to kingdom come.
"Good one, bozo. Yeah, 'nuke 'em', and make the US an international mad dog.
I wonder if Osama dreamed his attack might be that successful?"
Another girlie man from OZ - when the muslims raped the Aussie women last spring, did you chalk it up "impaired cultural differences brought on by their dismay at Australia's close ties to America?"
Another international ingrate: "America's full of advernturist cowboys, don't you know, mate? But we can count on them the next time, donja know..."
Bugger off, and see if we help you out the next time you are threatened with invasion. Maybe you can ask your good friends, the Malaysians and the Indonesians, to help you when the chicoms come for you in a few years.
Stick THAT on your barbie.
posted on 08/20/2002 2:34:03 AM PDT
PS - regards your "hate to see America lose the moral high ground:"
IS THIS MORALLY HIGH ENOUGH FOR YOU?
Islamic fascism must be buried like a plague, and Iraq is simply the first pile of dirt to go on the shovel. Get with the program: your sympathy for the US as a conservative notwithstanding, your call for a stall is exactly what costs tens of millions their lives in WW2. Like Hitler, these morons have told us what they want, they have demonstrated they are not waiting to do it to us, and they must be destroyed with the FEWEST casualties on our side as possible. That means going in NOW, not later. Any delay, and THERE WILL BE MORE DEAD.
posted on 08/20/2002 2:45:12 AM PDT
To: Travis McGee
posted on 08/20/2002 2:46:38 AM PDT
Wrong movie -- Patton was my model.
I'll back off on the coward bait, but the appeasement smack I must stick with. This is stud poker and any show of weakness now will only make the Saddam problem more difficult later as well as emboldening the other Islamic power players just as the US hasty retreat from Mogadishu and the failure to finish the job in 1991 led to the situation in which we find ourselves now.
Thats all I can say on this. I really can't debate the question of whether Saddam is evil. Either this is self-evident to you or nothing I can say is going to change your mind.
posted on 08/20/2002 5:09:52 AM PDT
posted on 08/20/2002 8:18:48 AM PDT
Admit Byron....You just hate War, even justifiable war.
posted on 08/20/2002 11:50:44 AM PDT
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