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Defects in NYPD handguns [Glocks jamming]
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS ^ | Tuesday, August 20th, 2002 | BOB KAPPSTATTER and ALICE McQUILLAN

Posted on 08/23/2002 2:24:12 PM PDT by archy

Defects in NYPD handguns

Half subject to jamming

By BOB KAPPSTATTER and ALICE McQUILLAN
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS

Tuesday, August 20th, 2002

More than half of the Police Department's handguns are subject to jam without warning, a potentially dangerous flaw that can leave the weapons as "useless as paperweights," police sources said. Although the jamming is rare, the NYPD has been concerned enough to order a recall of 24,000 semiautomatic Glock handguns so they can be refitted.

This problem affects the Glock Model 19S - the gun carried by about 60% of the department's 39,000 officers. The flaw, in which the shell casing fails to eject, has only arisen during practice and tests at the NYPD firing range, police officials say.

"Our studies have shown this to be a rare occurrence," said police spokesman Chief Michael Collins. "In the worst-case scenario...we estimated that this has happened only once in 450,000 times when fired."

However, during an actual gun battle in Brooklyn, two Emergency Service Unit officers reported that their Glocks failed. Collins said that after an investigation of the October 2000 incident, ballistics experts said whatever problem those guns had, it was not the jamming malfunction that is the subject of the current recall.

To correct the problem, the Austrian-based Glock company has sent engineers to the NYPD's firing range at Rodmans Neck in the Bronx. Since June, they have repaired 3,200 weapons in a procedure that takes about an hour. Immediately afterward, officers tested the refitted weapons at the range, where the results have been excellent, Collins said. The process will continue until all 24,000 Glocks are fixed, he said.

There is a delay in fixing all the weapons, sources said, because cutbacks and the redeployment of officers to special details have made it difficult for cops to schedule time to have their guns repaired.

Sources also said that some of the Glocks have a different problem - locking. When a gun locks, a user can get it functioning again by removing the clip holding the ammunition and manually moving the slide to eject the stuck shell casing.

In that scenario, the source said, "You can be back in the gun battle in a matter of seconds, as opposed to the total jam where the guns become [as] useless as paperweights."


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; US: Georgia; US: New York
KEYWORDS: banglist; cops; donutwatch; glock; jam; malfunction; nypd; phasethree; rhodesia
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see info *here* for additional Glock *Phase three malfunction* info.
1 posted on 08/23/2002 2:24:13 PM PDT by archy
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To: archy
we estimated that this has happened only once in 450,000 times when fired.
2 posted on 08/23/2002 2:25:56 PM PDT by ibbryn
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To: archy
Judging from the shooting ability that NY cops have demonstrated the guns may be more lethal as clubs. Besides pistols are illegal for anyone but cops to own therefore the police really don't need guns! ( There is no gun crime . . . . . right?)
3 posted on 08/23/2002 2:27:25 PM PDT by Nov3
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To: jdogbearhunter; alieno nomine; Xphantasos
Ping
4 posted on 08/23/2002 2:29:51 PM PDT by phasma proeliator
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To: *bang_list
Here we go again! ;)
5 posted on 08/23/2002 2:32:29 PM PDT by Shooter 2.5
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To: ibbryn
we estimated that this has happened only once in 450,000 times when fired.

From link above:


Retired NYPD MOS Pat Rogers reports upon personal observation that Glock, Inc. has set-up a mini-CAD CAM machine shop with technicians supplied by Glock in a rented trailer at Rodman's Neck where it will be on station for at least one year, and possibly longer.

A milling machine capable of handling eight (8) slides at a time, is performing two cuts, one on the breach face, and another at the ejection port. Some of the newest Models 19 already have one of those cuts done at the factory, and unconfirmed information suggests that Glock, Inc. will be incorporating these changes across their entire product line.

Glock has acknowledged that these cuts are not so much to prevent the malfunction as they are to make it easier for the operator to clear them when they occur. That seems to be barely one step beyond Glock's offer when the Phase Three problems first surfaced, to produce an instructional video on P3 clearances.

While the Glock 19 has been purchased in higher numbers (25,000 units) than either the S&W 5946 or Sig-Sauer P226 DAO variant, approximately two-thirds of NYPD's last academy class chose a handgun other than the Glocks as their duty weapon. DS

6 posted on 08/23/2002 2:33:30 PM PDT by archy
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Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: em23
...something about an eight or ten pound trigger pull, I heard.
8 posted on 08/23/2002 2:46:05 PM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: archy
GOT COLT?
9 posted on 08/23/2002 2:50:30 PM PDT by elbucko
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To: archy
I dont like the trigger/safety mechanism on a glock.

That said, I have NEVER seen one jam.

10 posted on 08/23/2002 2:51:21 PM PDT by Ford Fairlane
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To: archy
And people wonder why I love 1911's and revolvers :)
11 posted on 08/23/2002 2:51:34 PM PDT by Centurion2000
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To: archy
"In the worst-case scenario...we estimated that this has happened only once in 450,000 times when fired."

I thought needed to be repeated.

12 posted on 08/23/2002 2:58:37 PM PDT by cruiserman
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To: Ford Fairlane
. . . . I have NEVER seen one jam.

OK, let's look at reality. Glocks are purchased by police departments because they are low-cost weapons, not for any other reason. Would you want to trust your life to the lowest bidder?

13 posted on 08/23/2002 2:59:20 PM PDT by toddst
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To: toddst
Sounds to me like they're "limp wristing". This allows the recoil to be absorbed by the arm and elbow(instead of functioning the action).You can do this with a 1911 or any other semi-auto handgun if you try hard enough. Maybe the NYPD should get more training for the sissies amoung 'em.
14 posted on 08/23/2002 3:03:54 PM PDT by chadwimc
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To: archy
For the record, IMHO, Chief Michael Collins of the NYPD is a moron and should be relieved. Any auto loading pistol that operates properly 449,999 out of 450,000 times is 99.9998% effective, about as close to perfection as is humanly possible. The members of the NYPD should be on their knees every night, thanking God, that they have Glocks. Chief Collins should spend some time improving the shooting skills of his officers, that might actually be of some use.
15 posted on 08/23/2002 3:13:51 PM PDT by Agent Smith
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To: Marine Inspector
Ping.
16 posted on 08/23/2002 3:30:30 PM PDT by PsyOp
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To: chadwimc
Sounds to me like they're "limp wristing".

Based on all the testing they've done on the range I don't believe limp-wristing is the problem. There's a problem in the engineering itself and Glock isn't addressing it. Mr. Glock tends to discourage criticism of his guns, is what I hear. Glock better get on with serious work IMO.

17 posted on 08/23/2002 3:44:39 PM PDT by toddst
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To: Ford Fairlane
Yes... I don't have much interest in a Glock myself. They just don't fit my hand right. I prefer the 1911 style single-stack magazine. But: everyone I know that owns a Glock raves about it. Particularly: reliability. Sounds like maybe Glock had a bad batch or a late-model tweak to the engineering that isn't working out.
18 posted on 08/23/2002 4:19:54 PM PDT by Ramius
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To: archy
"Our studies have shown this to be a rare occurrence," said police spokesman Chief Michael Collins. "In the worst-case scenario...we estimated that this has happened only once in 450,000 times when fired."

If this is true, the New York Police Department may have the world's most reliable pistol.

19 posted on 08/23/2002 4:21:58 PM PDT by J Jay
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To: chadwimc
Bingo!
20 posted on 08/23/2002 4:23:52 PM PDT by joesnuffy
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