Posted on 08/25/2002 11:12:24 AM PDT by Fethiye
DALLAS -- On a sweltering midsummer's Sunday in Dallas, the cavernous Cathedral of Hope is packed with hundreds of congregants. Lively choral music sets toes tapping, and the sermon, about observing the Sabbath, is delivered with warmth and humor.
"Six days shall you shop, but on the seventh day you shall cease from all shopping," Mona West, the pastor, says from the pulpit, her eyes twinkling. "And that includes Home Depot. Or at least two out of four Sundays."
It's a scene straight from Middle America: There is laughter all around and hugs and kisses, too, and after the offertory and communion and much greeting and good cheer, the faithful file happily out of church -- men holding hands with men and women holding hands with women.
"Dallas is changing," said Tim Hurst, a gay 47-year-old real estate agent who attends the Cathedral of Hope with his partner, Jay, 44, a hotel owner. "We've been together four years last month, and this church has been very important to our relationship."
As the largest predominantly gay church in the United States, and possibly the world, the Cathedral of Hope in Dallas is thriving. In doing so, it is challenging old stereotypes about conservatism and intolerance in the nation's ninth-largest city.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
Since when is homosexuality acceptable? Since when is an abomination acceptable before the altar of the Lord?
When homosexual men no longer consider it a right to be in close and intimate contact with my teenage sons in the Boy Scouts, in the Catholic Church and in the schools, then I'll consider what you have to say. But I would guess that that day is far, far away.
"I don't BELIEVE that GOD would reject a homosexual if his heart was right......"
NIV Hebrews 3:18-19
18. And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed ?
19. So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.
NIV Revelation 21:27
27. Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.
Grlfrnd, we may disagree on whether my marriage deserves legal recognition (and whether I deserve to be able to call it a marriage). Fine. But you're out of line when you disparage the sincerity of the relationship by labeling it "tres hip." Really, you know next to nothing about me, as I of you. But I would not think of being so presumptuous as to slight your feelings for those you love.
I would expect you to apologize if you have any common courtesy.
Well, Fethiye, what's the sticky with the wicket? Inquiring minds and all...you know how it is.
Since you asked, I'm a man.
You know, being disqualified from marriage has one (and only one) upside -- it reminds you that marriage is a precious thing, not to be toyed with.
This is a misrepresentation. I have not made any claims about how Christians should view homosexuality. At most I have been critical of others who argued that all "true" Christians must adopt their own particular church's position on the subject.
Instead, my consistent subject has been increasing church-going by open gays, and the vociferous opposition that phenomenon inspires among some conservatives.
Conservatives who, one might hope (naively, I guess) would be supportive of that and similar trends toward traditional values among gays.
With all due respect this is PC mumbo jumbo.
You claim to have no position on "how Christians should view homosexuality", yet you oppose all those who suscribe to the Biblical position on homosexuality.
Like gay Christians, you take a position opposing the Bible (and don't even try the "interpretation" argument..the Bible is clear) on homosexuality and demand every Christian be neutral on the subject and allow Christinity be defined however anybody chooses.
This is nonsense.
Conservatives who, one might hope (naively, I guess) would be supportive of that and similar trends toward traditional values among gays.
Perhaps you don't understand. I don't know how we can make it much clearer. My actual thought, after a dozen different people have given you the "no possible chance for misunderstanding" assistance in this thread, is that you DO INDEED understand that homosexuality is not compatible with eternal life under the rules given to us by our creator, yet wish to alienate and divide Christians instead.
That, Fethiye, is wicked. We have put on the armor of God, and the sword of the spirit, recognizing that the battle we face is not against flesh and blood, but against evil spirits. You have one in you now, though you may deny it.
It is impossible for "gays to have a trend toward traditional values." By the very definition of choosing to participate in a homosexual lifestyle, they deny not only traditional values, but the Will of God.
If you truly want to learn, to have a chance at salvation and eternal life in Heaven, you will have to store your treasures in heaven while still on earth. By trying to mislead and divide Christians and steer them away from the TRUTH, you are storing up eternal punishment.
You never know how much time you have, Fethiye.
Jesus told us not to cast our pearls before swine -- the meaning fitting this exact situation. If you truly wish to learn where you err, I will help. If you continue on your current path, I'll tell the Lord that I have done what I could, and move on.
Ask yourself this, before posting your next reply: "What am I really trying to accomplish here? Is it my idea, or am I being lead? Where does this desire to do this come from?"
I suspect you'll find that you don't really know why you've chosen to do this. Sleep on it, and pray to Jesus Christ to help you. You'd be amazed.
I should resist, but I can't help but point out that opinions on interracial marriage were (quite recently) nearly universal among conservatives and were backed up with -- you guessed it -- citations to the Bible.
Yes. They were.
And to anticipate the obvious (and I'm sure outraged!) question: Yes, that is a comparison between racism and discrimination against gays.
And the sight of gay, self-professed Christian church-goers is going to change opinions, whether you deign to recognize them as true Christians or not.
Maybe among those who think being a Christian involves no repentance, no laying down of sin, no spiritual rebirth, no transformed lives.
Those who don't have a clue as to what the Bible teaches or what the Gospel of Christ stands for.
Excuse me if I'm mistaken, but did you just call me "swine"? Oh, well, I've been called worse.
Anyway, as to your kind offer of "help," thanks but no thanks.
I feel, to be polite, that I should offer to reciprocate and "help" you convert, but we gays don't really go in for that kind of thing.
Mind you now, I don't despise you, I despise your actions, much as I do a murderer's or a thief's.
I believe you can rise above such degenerate acts.
Right! And We'd better be looking for a good cave or bunker to hide in when we go through the inevitable repeat of what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah.
The Dallas Morning News is going to become as rare as the Sodom Gazette or the Gomorrah Tribune!
When my brother was in college, he used to clean apts after the tenants moved out. One day he found a flyer for the local "gay church". It was a one hour service followed by an hour and a half of coffee and "fellowship".
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