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Are Dr. Judith Reisman's claims about homosexuals and pedophilia phony?
Springfield(MO) News-Leader ^ | 08/25/02 - 08/30/02 | Haven Howard - Lisa Tinker

Posted on 08/30/2002 3:58:34 AM PDT by JCG

Edited on 05/07/2004 7:30:50 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

The recent decision of Big Brothers-Big Sisters of America making it mandatory for local chapters to accept homosexual volunteers makes no sense to any thinking adult or concerned parent. I am also very disturbed the Springfield News-Leader is endorsing this decision.

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bigbrothers; bigsisters; cameron; gays; homosexualagenda; homosexuals; pedophiles; reisman; sasu
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These two letters were published in our local paper (on August 25th and 30th respectively) regarding a recent decision by the Big Brothers, Big Sisters organization to allow avowed homosexuals to participate in their program as child mentors.

Can anyone verify or refute the claims made about Dr. Reisman and Paul Cameron in the second ("Volunteerism") letter?

America's Fifth Column ... watch PBS documentary JIHAD! In America
New Link: Download 8 Mb zip file here (60 minute video)

1 posted on 08/30/2002 3:58:34 AM PDT by JCG
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I can't say anything about Cameron or Reisman, but if the letter writer is deluded enough to say this:

Next is her statement that ?innocent boys, not girls? have been molested by clergy. It is disconcerting that lack of personal research and continued media sensationalism have led her to believe this.

you really can't trust anything she writes.

2 posted on 08/30/2002 4:10:40 AM PDT by TomB
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To: TomB
Yeah, I caught that, too. I assume it is her contention that more girls than boys have been molested by priests. Like to see her source, but of course we won't.
3 posted on 08/30/2002 4:22:10 AM PDT by Skooz
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To: Skooz
Paul Cameron resigned from the American Psychological Association Rebuttal and for good reasons if one bothers to look at his letter in the link.

The APA tried unsucessfully to pull the licenses of reparative therapists awhile back and they are saturated with so-called political correctness.

It is well known that homosexual pederastic assaults are covered up by our liberal media. Does anyone remember the ad nauseum coverage that was given to Matthew Sheppard (who propositioned straight men for sex) versus the utter silence regarding the toture sex/murder of young Jesse Dirkhising? Even worse, the attempted sodomization and murder of 10 year old Jeffrey Curley got even less play by our culturally Communist media.

Fox news ran stories about the trial of Jesse Dirkhising's killers, Brown and Carpenter, and the popularity of Fox news these days proves the newsworthiness of those stories.

4 posted on 08/30/2002 4:30:55 AM PDT by UbIwerks
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Finally, her statement that homosexuality leads to disease, dysfunction and death can be attributed only to ignorance and a paucity of factual information.

I think Lisa needs a bit of 'factual information' about a little epidemic called AIDS, and how Homosexual behavior is by far the #1 factor in its spread in our country.

5 posted on 08/30/2002 4:36:49 AM PDT by Always Right
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Howard refers to her as a “leading expert,” when in fact much of her “research” is merely recycled conjecture obtained from Paul Cameron. Cameron was dropped from membership in the American Psychological Association in 1984 for ethical violations concerning his biased and fraudulent research.

Cameron's numbers were like gays were 3 times more likely to be pedophiles than straight males. Dr. Judith Reisman 40% higher number is actually very conservative. The gay researchers have their numbers too, but their numbers are meaningless since they don't consider men who molest boys as gay, so by creative definition gays aren't likely to be pedophiles. Go figure.

6 posted on 08/30/2002 4:45:34 AM PDT by Always Right
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To: UbIwerks
You are right. Matthew Shepherd suffered a horrible death he in no way deserved and his murderers are rightly in prison. But the media's deification of him is disgusting. Meanwhile, no one knows who Jesse Dirkhising was.

Someone ran a Nexus search of the two stories just before Jesse's killers went to trial. I wish I could remember the numbers, but it was stunning. They found thousands of articles on the Shepherd murder, only a dozen or so on the Jesse Dirkhising torture/murder.

If Jesse Dirkhising had been gay, and the exact thing had happened at the hands of straight guys, he would be on Mt. Olympus with Matthew Shepherd. But because he was murdered by gays, he is forgotten.


7 posted on 08/30/2002 4:47:00 AM PDT by Skooz
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Lisa Tinker is wrong.

Judith Reisman's footnotes should provide the material you are looking for.

8 posted on 08/30/2002 4:47:37 AM PDT by Tom Bombadil
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homosexual men are 40 percent more likely to molest boys than heterosexual men are to molest girls

And common sense dictates that there are NO Big Brothers for Girls or Big Sisters for Boys or at least it should so why allow Homosexsuals that type of privledge. ( hunting ground )
9 posted on 08/30/2002 5:07:15 AM PDT by uncbob
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To: Skooz
Someone ran a Nexus search of the two stories just before Jesse's killers went to trial. I wish I could remember the numbers, but it was stunning. They found thousands of articles on the Shepherd murder, only a dozen or so on the Jesse Dirkhising torture/murder.

You're quite right. Matthew Sheppard did not deserve what happened to him, but you state scenario most eloquently.

Fox News is the only station that ran the Brown and Carpenter trial for the sodomization/murder of Jesse Dirkhising and people were interested, discounting arrogant liberal pronoucements that the story was not newsworthy: Click here for Fox's real icon to Dirkhising case

10 posted on 08/30/2002 5:15:43 AM PDT by UbIwerks
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To: UbIwerks
It is well known that homosexual pederastic assaults are covered up by our liberal media. Does anyone remember the ad nauseum coverage that was given to Matthew Sheppard (who propositioned straight men for sex) versus the utter silence regarding the toture sex/murder of young Jesse Dirkhising? Even worse, the attempted sodomization and murder of 10 year old Jeffrey Curley got even less play by our culturally Communist media.

The Bureau of Justice Statistics proves year after year that 90% of all interracial violent crime involves a white victim and a non-white criminal, and that non-whites are at least twice as likely as whites to commit racially motivated hate crimes.

But what is, far and away, the most well-known interracial hate crime in recent memory? The death of James Byrd. And how did it become the most well-known? According to Michael Kelly, the story is a perfect fit in one of the liberal media's favorite story templates.

Compare the media's coverage of the killing of Kevin Shifflet to their coverage of the killing of Robert Byrd. Byrd, of course, was dragged on a chain behind a pickup truck by three white racists until he was dismembered. There's no way you missed that story unless you were raised in a barrel and just let out.

Kevin Shifflet? Who's Kevin Shifflet? You never heard of him. That's because he was white, and a black man killed him simply because he was white. Here is a more comprenhesive listing of hate crimes that you never heard about, because the killers were black and their victims were white:

There is no better example of left-wing media bias than a comparison between the stories of Matthew Shepard and Jesse Dirkhising.

* * * * * * *

Wrapping up the Dirkhising story

By Brent Bozell April 2, 2001

You could call it a forgotten ending to a forgotten story. On March 22, a jury in Bentonville, Ark., convicted 23-year-old Joshua Brown of first-degree murder in the death of 13-year-old Jesse Dirkhising. On Sept. 26, 1999, Brown and his lover, Davis Don Carpenter, 39, bound, gagged and drugged the skinny, long-haired boy and raped him with objects until he died of "positional asphyxiation."

Let the record show this is a story the national press has deliberately chosen to spike. The national media's ongoing, see-no-evil campaign of calculated ignorance on the Dirkhising story stands in stark contrast to both its perpetual exploitation of crimes against children and its campaign to smear the religious right as the killers of Wyoming college student Matthew Shepard.

Iconoclastic gay journalist Andrew Sullivan recently arrived at the scene of the discrepancy in the New Republic: "In the month after Shepard's murder, Nexis recorded 3,007 stories about his death. In the month after Dirkhising's murder, Nexis recorded 46 stories about his.

In all of last year, only one article about Dirkhising appeared in a major mainstream newspaper, the Boston Globe. The New York Times and the Los Angeles Times ignored the incident completely. In the same period, the New York Times published 45 stories about Shepard and the Washington Post published 28. This discrepancy isn't just real. It's staggering."

It's beyond staggering. It is nauseating.

Washington Times reporter Robert Stacy McCain tried to discern why not one network (with the typical exception being Fox News) has covered the story. A spokesman for ABC said that the network had been "watching the trial and will continue to monitor it." A CNN flack assured the world that, at her network, "we've been monitoring the trial." How comforting. CBS had the best excuse: "Every day we have 22 minutes to fill ... (and during the trial) the overall editorial judgment was that it couldn't fit into the broadcast that day."

These are the same networks that also monitored yet somehow found the time to report literally hundreds of stories on Jon Benet Ramsey.

Sullivan agreed that this discrepancy is a result of the media's sensitivity to gay-left politics. The Shepard murder was the hook for selling a raft of "hate crime" and other legislation, while the Dirkhising murder would only "feed anti-gay prejudice." Gay-left activists didn't just promote Shepard and ignore Dirkhising. They have urged their followers to shut this "insensitive" story down in the press.

In 1999, the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation advised action against Boston Globe columnist Jeff Jacoby's Shepard-Dirkhising comparison: "Jacoby uses his voice at the Globe to inappropriately contrast them and manufacture a notion of media bias. Please tell the Globe that this type of insensitivity does not belong in a newspaper that has a record of treating lesbian and gay issues in a fair and accurate way."

For the rest of the story, click on the link:

Copyright © 2001 Creators Syndicate, Inc. All rights reserved.

This excerpt is posted under the fair use exception for education and discussion purposes only. Not for commercial use.

* * * * * * *

Here's an article by David Horowitz, touching on both the Shifflet/Byrd disparity in media coverage and the Shepard/Dirkhising disparity:

11 posted on 08/30/2002 5:17:52 AM PDT by Bryan
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The Truth About Homosexuals

Warning: Contains Graphic Language -- Not For the Faint of Heart

* * * * * * * * *

I. The Pro-Homosexual Agenda of the APA

The American Psychiatric Association is a leading private, clinical professional organization. Over the years, the APA increasingly has promoted greater acceptance of homosexuality. And now, some APA members are trying to outlaw counseling to homosexuals who desire to change their orientation. The APA’s pro-homosexual position is not shared by a large minority of its own members, and it offends many people of faith.

For example, APA member Dr. Roy H. Hart writes from a Jewish perspective that organized psychiatry does not choose to understand religion’s aversion to homosexuality: ‘‘Americans have the highest rate of church attendance and membership in the Christian world, but psychiatrists contribute little to those statistics. What is ego-alien for the psychiatrist -- religion -- is the center of existence for a vast segment of the population.’’ APA President John McIntyre tried to bridge the chasm with religion when, after a pilgrimage to the epicenter of Mormonism, Salt Lake City, he commented on the ‘‘improved dialogue between religion and psychiatry.’’ (Hart RH. ‘‘Psychiatry and Religion.’’ Psychiatric News, May 20, 1994, p. 16.)

The bridge McIntyre began to build in 1994 promptly began to crumble with the circulation of the January 1995 issue of the American Journal of Psychiatry, the APA’s official publication. That issue contains an article which adds salt to an old wound. (Jones FD & Koshes RJ. ‘‘Homosexuality and the Military.’’ American Journal of Psychiatry 1995, 152: 16-21.) The article is noteworthy for its poor review of research. Its quick initial turn-around, along with its array of revisions, suggests that the AJP editorial staff ignored normal review procedures in order to publish a politicized article.

The AJP article, ‘‘Homosexuality and the Military’’:

• Underwent an unusually rapid review process with multiple revisions.

• Misrepresents the history of the military's homosexual policy.

• Misrepresents the homosexual discharge history.

• Relies on debunked research.

• Relies on outdated polls.

• Ignores the law and favors Clinton's inconsistent policy.

• Distorts facts about allied military experiences.

• Falsely claims that most societies approve of homosexuality.

• Misrepresents the pathological implications of homosexuality.

• Claims that the presence of homosexuals in the military would not contribute to poor morale.

• Contends that homosexuals are not a security risk.

• Contends that homosexuals are not a special health risk.

• Claims that the public will soon favor homosexual military service.

• Contends that the ban is based solely on bad attitudes.

The authors take issue with an estimate that 4% of the population is exclusively homosexual and state, ‘‘Most authors feel this is too conservative and that about 7% to 10% are primarily homosexual in orientation. Kinsey et al. also found that 37% of males between childhood and old age had experienced homoerotic orgasm, and another 13% claimed to have had homoerotic stimulation without overt contact. If these epidemiological data are reliable, the policy of the Department of Defense would severely limit the induction and retention of service members ... strict adherence to the Kinsey data and the policy of the Department of Defense would result in the elimination of every other soldier (37% plus 13%) in today's military.’’ (Jones & Koshes, 1995, supra.)

A. Kinsey’s 10% Estimate Is Far Too High

Alfred C. Kinsey, an Indiana University zoologist, based his research on 12,000 interviews. Kinsey relied heavily on data gleaned from criminals and extrapolated his findings to the general population. It is worth noting that Kinsey himself was a homosexual involved in sadomasochistic sex. Psychologist Abraham Maslow also observed that Kinsey’s work, like all sex surveys, had a high margin of ‘‘volunteer’’ error because many people are not honest or willing to talk about their most intimate sexual secrets. (Kinsey AC, Pomeroy WB & Martin CE. Sexual Behavior in the Human Male. Philadelphia: WB Saunders, 1948, pp. 157-192, 667-678.)

No reputable survey has replicated Kinsey's findings, and a number of recent studies suggest that the homosexual population is considerably less than 10% of the US population. For example, a 1991 national survey of sexually active adults done by the National Opinion Research Center shows that 98.4% of adults were exclusively heterosexual. (Smith TW. ‘‘Adult Sexual Behavior in 1989.’’ Family Planning Perspectives 1991, 23: 104.) A 1993 survey by the Battelle Human Affairs Research Centers found that only 1.1% of all Americans are exclusively homosexual. (Rensberger B. "How Many Men in US Are Gay?’’ Washington Post, April 17, 1993, p. A-1.)

A survey conducted by the Alan Guttmacher Institute in 1993 found that 1% of men consider themselves exclusively homosexual. (Barringer F. ‘‘Sex Survey of American Men Finds 1% Are Gay.’’ New York Times, April 15, 1993, p. A-1.) And a 1994 National Health and Social Life Survey at the University of Chicago found that 2.8% of men and 1.4% of women identified themselves as homosexual or bisexual. (Vobejda B. ‘‘Survey Finds Most Adults Sexually Staid.’’ Washington Post, October 7, 1994, p. A-1.)

A March 1994 article in the American Journal of Psychiatry cites several surveys of American men showing the prevalence of homosexuality. For example, the National Survey of Men found that only 1.1% of men had been exclusively homosexual during the preceding ten years. Another study found that 2.4% of men are currently homosexual. (Cited by Seidman SN & Rieder RO. ‘‘A Review of Sexual Behavior in the United States.’’ American Journal of Psychiatry 1994, 151: 339.) Thus it appears that even the 4% figure, criticized in the 1995 AJP article for being too conservative, was in fact a bit too liberal.

B. ‘‘The Politics Of Diagnosis’’

The history of the APA’s decision to change its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM) is worth examining. Homosexual activists used intimidation and deception to force the APA to remove homosexuality as a mental illness from the DSM of psychiatric disorders. For example, in 1970 homosexual activists contacted a prominent and highly-respected member of the APA Board of Trustees, and received a polite letter in return (on his letterhead and bearing his signature), declining to endorse their position. The activists then purchased the APA mailing list, used the letter as a guide to print up the board member's stationery, and forged his signature at the bottom of a letter fully endorsing the homosexual agenda, mailing it to every APA member. (Bayer R. Homosexuality and American Psychiatry: The Politics of Diagnosis. New York: Basic Books, 1981.)

‘‘The result was not a conclusion based upon an approximation of the scientific truth as dictated by reason, but was instead an action demanded by the ideological temper of the times.’’ From 1969 to 1971, homosexual activists stormed the annual meetings of the APA, demanding the normalization of homosexual behavior. Scheduling the 1971 annual meeting in San Francisco was an invitation for disaster: homosexual activists invaded the meeting, screaming and kicking, throwing chairs, seizing microphones, and denouncing psychiatry as ‘‘the enemy incarnate.’’ (Ibid.)

The DSM was challenged at the 1973 meeting of the New England Psychiatric Society by homosexual activists. They recommended that the nomenclature’s section on ‘‘sexual deviation’’ be renamed "sexual dysfunction.’’ Later that year APA Trustees ruled that homosexuality would no longer be listed as a ‘‘mental disorder’’ in its official nomenclature of mental disorders, and recommended that it be replaced by the term ‘‘sexual orientation disturbance.’’ (Kuchta JC. ‘‘Psychiatry, Amendment 2 and Homosexuality,’’ Rocky Mountain GOLD, March 1993, p. 3.) It is worth noting that the vote of the rank-and-file membership was 54% to 46%; thus it is a slender majority, and there is a substantial minority of psychiatrists who yet believe that homosexuality is a mental illness.

The membership of the American Medical Association disagreed with the APA’s decision. A 1975 AMA membership survey found that 69% agreed that homosexuality is ‘‘pathological.’’ (Kuchta, 1993, supra.) Additionally, psychotherapists such as Elizabeth Moberly, Gerald van den Aardweg, Joseph Nicolosi, Charles Socarides, and Masters & Johnson have reported much success helping homosexuals to recover, thereby proving the point that it is curable. (Schwartz MF & Masters WH. ‘‘The Masters and Johnson Treatment Program for Dissatisfied Homosexual Men,’’ American Journal of Psychiatry 1984, 141: 173-181.)

Most modern societies consider homosexuality a mental illness. For example, a 1992 survey by the APA's Office of International Affairs in conjunction with the APA Committee of Gay, Lesbian, and Bisexual Psychiatrists surveyed 125 psychiatric associations around the world. It found that all but three associations consider homosexuality a mental illness or a sexual deviation. American psychiatrists are joined only by their colleagues in Denmark and South Africa in their efforts to redefine homosexuality and protect the ‘‘right’’ of homosexual adults to conduct consensual sexual relations in private. (‘‘US Psychiatrists’ Views on Homosexuality Differ from Colleagues’ in Other Countries,’’ Psychiatric News, Vol. 28, No. 17, September 3, 1993.)

II. Promiscuity and the Risk of Disease

Homosexuals who participate in unsafe sex practices with multiple partners and without taking precautions are at great risk of contracting sexually transmitted diseases. A survey by The Advocate, the leading homosexual publication in the US, found that 72% of homosexual respondents engage in insertive oral intercourse, 46% insertive anal intercourse, 45% receptive anal-oral sex, 48% in three-way sex, 24% in group sex (four or more), and 10% in sadomasochism. Most homosexuals in the survey admitted to having had more than 30 sex partners over their lifetime, and about a third (35%) report more than 100 partners. The survey also found that homosexual men use condoms only one time in four. (Lever J. ‘‘Sexual Revelations: The 1994 Advocate Survey of Sexuality and Relationships.’’ The Advocate, August 23, 1994, pp. 21-22.)

Heterosexuals have fewer sex partners than homosexuals. A 1988-1990 General Social Survey found that 91% of men 25-29 years of age are heterosexually active. Nineteen percent of these men have had only one lifetime sex partner, 55% have had two to 19 lifetime partners, and 25% have had 20 or more lifetime partners. (Cited by Seidman SN & Rieder RO. ‘‘A Review of Sexual Behavior in the United States.’’ American Journal of Psychiatry, 1994, 151: 335.)

The University of Chicago published a national sex survey in October, 1994, which found that 20% of men have had only one sex partner in their lifetime, 21% have had two to four partners, 17% had five to ten partners, 16% had 11 to 20, and 17% report having had 21 or more sex partners. (Elmer-Dewitt P. ‘‘Now for the Truth About Americans and Sex.’’ Time, October 17, 1994, p. 64.) However, that survey excluded men over 59, who constitute one-sixth of the population and who typically have more conservative sex lives. Thus the real figures probably are even lower for the population of all men. (‘‘New Sex Survey: Dishonest Science.’’ Family Research Report, November-December 1994.)

III. Homosexuality and Mental Illness

Besides homosexuals’ preoccupation with sex, traditionalist psychiatrists have catalogued a higher incidence of personality characteristics suggesting psychological disturbance and an inability to interact successfully with others. Dr. Edmond Bergler, who treated over a thousand homosexuals, concluded that homosexuals tended to: provoke attacks against themselves and then count these ‘‘attacks’’ as injustices they had suffered, display defensive malice toward others, exhibit a flippant attitude in order to cover underlying depression and guilt, display extreme narcissism and superciliousness, refuse to acknowledge accepted standards in non-sexual matters (on the assumption that the right to cut moral corners is due homosexuals as compensation for their ‘‘suffering’’) and ‘‘be generally unreliable, also of a more or less psychopathic nature.’’ (Bergler E. Homosexuality: Disease or Way of Life? New York: MacMillan, 1956.)

Dr. Irving Bieber, who performed one of the largest and most intensive psychiatric studies of homosexuals, characterized gays as ‘‘angry, bitter people with low feelings of responsibility.’’ (Bieber I. Homosexuality: A Psychoanalytic Study. New York: Basic Books, 1962.) And Dr. Charles Socarides has emphasized the similarity of the obsessive-compulsive nature of homosexual sex acts to a drug ‘‘fix.’’ (Socarides CW. ‘‘Homosexuality and the Medical Model.’’ Phenomenology and Treatment of Psychosexual Disorder. New York: SP Medical & Scientific Books, 1983, p. 40.)

Becoming a homosexual involves a tremendous amount of reverse socialization. Almost every child is taught to avoid feces. Potty training explicitly teaches one to regard feces as ‘‘dirty,’’ disgusting, and unhealthy. Yet most homosexuals eventually learn to immerse themselves in feces. Past surveys suggest the following typical sequential development of homosexual activity. The median age for homosexuals when their genitals are first manipulated by another male is 13. In about two more years the anus is first used for sex rather than biological relief; and in another year or two the anus is licked for ‘‘sexual fun.’’ By age 21 most homosexuals ‘‘have come a long way.’’ They have learned to seek and enjoy activities that would have sickened them as children. Some go on to ‘‘bigger thrills’’ like sadomasochism, ‘‘fisting’’ (where the fist is placed up the rectum), eating feces or drinking urine. (Gebhard PH & Johnson AB. The Kinsey Data. New York: Saunders, 1979. Bell AP & Weinberg MS. Homosexualities. New York: Simon & Schuster, 1978.)

Medically speaking, it doesn’t matter whether you pursue such activity for ‘‘fun’’ or ingest waste because your salad wasn’t washed -- exposure to feces is unhealthy. Psychologically, to undo the hygienic training of childhood in pursuit of adult sexual pleasure literally ‘‘turns all the rules upside down.’’ Given the biologically and psychologically unhealthful nature of such activity, it is not surprising that the younger a person ‘‘locks into’’ a homosexual identity, the more disturbed he is apt to be.

Remafedi performed two studies of ‘‘gay youth.’’ A 1987 study of 29 such youngsters led him to conclude that the ‘‘very experience of acquiring a homosexual or bisexual identity at an early age places the individual at risk for dysfunction. This conclusion is strongly supported by the data.’’ (Remafedi G. ‘‘Adolescent Homosexuality: Psychosocial and Medical Implications.’’ Pediatrics 1987, 79: 331-337.) His 1991 study of 137 homosexual and bisexual youth aged 14 to 21 reinforced his previous finding: ‘‘For each year’s delay in bisexual or homosexual self-labeling, the odds of a suicide attempt diminished by 80%. These findings support a previously observed, inverse relationship between psychosocial problems and the age of acquiring a homosexual identity.’’ (Remafedi G et al. ‘‘Risk Factors for Attempted Suicide in Gay and Bisexual Youth.’’ Pediatrics 1991, 87: 869-875.)

A. Social Disruption

Over the past 50 years, four studies have compared substantial numbers of homosexuals and heterosexuals -- all generated results suggesting greater social disruption by homosexuals. In the Kinsey survey, general prison inmates (excluding those incarcerated for sexual offenses) were over four times more likely to have extensive homosexual experience than his control group. (Gebhard PH et al. Sex Offenders. New York: Harper & Row, 1965.) Saghir & Robins compared 146 homosexuals with 78 heterosexuals and reported less stability (more lovers, more job-changing) and more criminality among homosexuals. (Saghir MT & Robins E. Male and Female Homosexuality. Baltimore: Williams & Wilkins, 1973.) Bell & Weinberg contrasted 979 homosexuals with 477 heterosexuals and found more instability (psychiatric, marital) and more criminality among homosexuals. (Bell & Weinberg, 1978, supra.)

These results echo the largest comparative study of homosexual and heterosexual couples, which reported that the average length of time together averaged about three years for male homosexual and lesbian couples vs. ten years for married heterosexuals. (Blumstein P & Schwartz P. American Couples. New York: Morrow, 1983.) Also, ‘‘cheating’’ was inevitable: ‘‘all [homosexual] couples with a relationship lasting more than five years have incorporated some provision for outside sexual activity.’’ (McWhirter DP & Mattison AM. The Male Couple. North Brunswick, NJ: Prentice Hall, 1984.)

B. Does Societal Acceptance Make a Difference?

Fecal exposure: In the 1940s, Kinsey reported that about two-thirds of male homosexuals had engaged in anal/penile contact, and 59% of male homosexuals and 18% of lesbians had participated in oral/anal activity (where the tongue is put in the anus). In the 1950s and '60s, San Francisco decriminalized and then accepted homosexuality. When the Kinsey Institute did a survey there in 1970, 96% of male homosexuals admitted to anal/penile contact, and 89% of the male homosexuals and 25% of the lesbians to oral/anal activity. (Gebhard & Johnson, 1979, supra.) Lifting the restraints upon homosexual activity appears to have increased the exposure to biological danger among those with homosexual desires.

Promiscuity: In the 1940s, 7% of male homosexuals and 63% of lesbians said that they had never had a ‘‘one night stand,’’ while 42% of the male homosexuals and 7% of the lesbians said that ‘‘over half of their partners had been ‘one night stands.’ ’’ By 1970 only 1% of male homosexuals and 38% of lesbians said that they had never had a ‘‘one night stand,’’ and 70% of male homosexuals and 29% of lesbians reported that they had had sex only once with over half of their partners. (Ibid.)

Acceptance did not necessarily make homosexuals’ lives better: 35% of male homosexuals (vs. 11% of heterosexual men) and 37% of lesbians (vs. 24% of heterosexual women) had either seriously considered or attempted suicide. Of homosexuals who had attempted suicide, the most frequent reason -- which accounted for 47% of all attempts -- was disagreements with a lover. (Bell & Weinberg, 1978, supra.) Further, although these ‘‘liberated gays’’ reported many more lifetime sexual partners than the homosexuals interviewed in the 1940s (a median of 250+ compared to a median of 20), twice as many homosexuals as heterosexuals (15.6% v. 8.4%) reported having ‘‘often’’ felt ‘‘very lonely’’ in the past month. (Ibid.)

This pattern of ‘‘liberation and acceptance’’ leading to greater excesses was echoed in the results of a 1991 survey by the San Francisco Dept. of Public Health on the sexual risk-taking of young homosexual men. As the Los Angeles Times reported, each succeeding generation ‘‘is behaving more dangerously than the one before.’’ (Omaha World-Herald, August 4, 1993, p. 24.)

C. Impermanency

A recent Oxford University study has revealed that 20-year-old homosexual males have a life expectancy eight to 20 years shorter than 20-year-old heterosexual males. (Hogg RS et al. ‘‘Modelling the Impact of HIV Disease on Mortality In Gay and Bisexual Men.’’ International Journal of Epidemiology 1997, 26: 657-661.) The homosexual lifestyle is strikingly impermanent. Homosexuals are acutely aware that while their sexual desires will continue, few will be sexually interested in them after their 30th birthday. Good health is frequently interrupted by bouts with alcoholism and STDs -- and because their lifespan is so short (the median age of death for homosexuals and lesbians is in the mid-40s while for married heterosexuals it is in the 70s), associates frequently die. Unlike the relatively permanent satisfactions and attachments of marriage and parenthood, those associated with homosexuality are fleeting.

It is far from surprising that half of homosexuals expressed regret about their homosexuality, that almost half exhibited clinical symptoms of depression (Bell & Weinberg, 1978, supra), or that although some homosexuals would advise adolescents who were just beginning homosexual activity to continue, four times as many would advise them to stop. (Gebhard & Johnson, 1979, supra.) The ‘‘gay life’’ is short, lonely and filled with cheating, insecurity, disease and danger. Although held captive by sexual addiction rather than bricks and bars, homosexuals exhibit many of the same psychological traits as those imprisoned in death camps. The pathologies of homosexuals fit the traditional social-psychiatric view: Happiness and well-being are earned through social and sexual productivity, not ‘‘sexual freedom.’’

IV. Homosexuals Are More Likely to Molest Children

Since there are so many more heterosexuals than homosexuals, which kind of child molestation -- homosexual or heterosexual -- is proportionately more common? Three kinds of scientific evidence point to the proportion of homosexual molestation: (1) survey reports of molestation in the general population, (2) surveys of those caught and convicted of molestation, and (3) what homosexuals themselves have reported. These three lines of evidence suggest that the 1%-to-3% of adults who practice homosexuality account for between one-fifth and one-third of all child molestation.

The Los Angeles Times surveyed 2,628 adults across the US in 1985. In the survey, 27% of the women and 16% of the men claimed to have been sexually molested during childhood. Since 7% of the molestations of girls and 93% of the molestations of boys were by adults of the same sex, about 40% of the molestations in this survey were homosexual. (Los Angeles Times, August 25-26, 1985.) In a random survey of British 15- to 19-year-olds, 35% of the boys and 9% of the girls claimed to have been approached for sex by adult homosexuals, and 2% of the boys and 1% of the girls admitted to succumbing. (Schofield M. The Sexual Behaviour of Young People. Boston: Little, Brown, 1965.)

Evidence showing that pedophilia is in fact a common part of the homosexual lifestyle is staggering. Ironically, much of it comes from homosexuals themselves. In The Gay Report, for instance, a survey of ‘‘gay’’ attitudes and behavior by homosexual researchers Jay and Young, revealed data showing that 73% of homosexuals surveyed had at some time had sex with boys 16 to 19 years of age or younger. (Jay K & Young A. The Gay Report. New York: Summit, 1979.)

Faced with these statistics, homosexual activists are now trying to deflect the discussion by claiming that male molesters of boys should not be considered homosexuals at all. But a recent study of Canadians imprisoned for pedophilia reveals the truth: (1) 30% of the offenders studied admitted to having engaged in homosexual acts as adults, and (2) 91% of molesters of non-familial boys admitted to no lifetime sexual contact other than homosexual. In other words, their sexual orientation was clearly homosexual. (Marshall WL et al. ‘‘Early Onset and Deviant Sexuality in Child Molesters.’’ Journal of Interpersonal Violence 1991, 6: 323-336.)

In a desperate attempt to counter these numbers, many homosexual proponents claim that homosexuals are less of a threat to the innocence of the young than heterosexuals, because ‘‘heterosexuals commit a majority of child molestations.’’ The advocates conveniently fail to mention that since heterosexuals make up about 98% of the population, it would be incredibly surprising if they did not commit a majority of child molestations. What is extraordinary is the disproportionate amount of child molestation committed by homosexuals, relative to their presence in the general population.

A. Surveys of Those Convicted

Drs. Freund and Heasman of the Clarke Institute of Psychiatry in Toronto reviewed two sizeable studies and calculated that 34% and 32% of the offenders against children were homosexual. In cases they had personally handled, homosexuals accounted for 36% of their 457 pedophiles. (Freund K et al. ‘‘Pedophilia and Heterosexuality vs. Homosexuality.’’ Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy, 1984, 10: 193-200.)

Dr. Adrian Copeland, a psychiatrist who works with sexual offenders at the Peters Institute in Philadelphia, said that, from his experience, pedophiles tend to be homosexual and ‘‘40% to 45%’’ of child molesters have had ‘‘significant homosexual experiences.’’ (Quoted by A Bass, Boston Globe, August 8, 1988.) A state-wide survey of 161 Vermont adolescents who committed sex offenses in 1984 found that 35 (22%) were homosexual. (Wassermann J et al. ‘‘Adolescent Sex Offenders -- Vermont, 1984.’’ Journal of the American Medical Ass’n 1986, 255: 181-2.)

Of the 91 molesters of non-related children at Canada’s Kingston Sexual Behaviour Clinic from 1978-1984, 38 (42%) engaged in homosexuality. (Marshall WL et al. ‘‘Early Onset and Deviant Sexuality in Child Molesters.’’ Journal of Interpersonal Violence 1991, 6: 323-336.) Of 52 child molesters in Ottawa from 1983 to 1985, 31 (60%) were homosexual. (Bradford JMW et al. ‘‘The Heterogeneity/Homogeneity of Pedophilia.’’ Psychiatric Journal of the University of Ottawa 1988, 13: 217-226.)

Because of this pattern, Judge J.T. Rees concluded that ‘‘the male homosexual naturally seeks the company of the male adolescent, or of the young male adult, in preference to that of the fully-grown man. [In 1947] 986 persons were convicted of homosexual and unnatural offenses. Of those, 257 were indictable offenses involving 402 male victims.’’ The great majority of victims were under the age of 16. Only 11% were over 21. ‘‘[T]he problem of male homosexuality is in essence the problem of the corruption of youth by itself [i.e., by other boys] and by its elders. [And thereby] ... the creation ... of new addicts ready to corrupt a still further generation of young men and boys in the future.’’ (Rees JT & Urill HV. They Stand Apart. New York: MacMillan, 1956.)

B. What Homosexuals Admit

The 1948 Kinsey survey found that 37% of male homosexuals and 2% of lesbians admitted to sexual relations with under-17-year-olds, and 28% of male homosexuals and 1% of lesbians admitted to sexual relations with under-16-year-olds while they themselves were aged 18 or older. (Gebhard & Johnson, 1979, supra.) In 1970, the Kinsey Institute interviewed 565 white male homosexuals in San Francisco: 25% of them admitted to having had sex with boys aged 16 or younger while they themselves were at least 21. (Bell & Weinberg, 1978, supra.)

In another survey, 23% of male homosexuals and 6% of lesbians admitted to sexual interaction with youth less than 16 years of age. (Jay & Young, 1979, supra.) In France, 129 convicted male homosexuals (average age 34 years) said they had had sexual contact with a total of 11,007 boys (an average of 85 different boys per man). (O'Carroll T. Pedophilia: The Radical Case. Boston: Alyson, 1982.) Abel et al. reported similarly that men who molested girls outside their family had averaged 20 victims each; those who molested boys averaged 150 victims each. (Abel GG et al. ‘‘Self-Reported Sex Crimes of Non-Incarcerated Paraphiliacs.’’ Journal of Interpersonal Violence 1987, 2: 3-25.)

C. Child Molesting By Homosexual Teachers

Nowadays parents are labeled bigots for fearing that homosexual teachers might molest their children. But if homosexuals are more likely to molest children and are in a position to take advantage of them, this fear makes sense. Indeed, accounts of disproportionate homosexual teacher molestation appear throughout the scientific literature.

The original Kinsey study reported that 4% of non-criminal white male homosexuals and 7% of non-criminal white lesbians reported that they had their first homosexual experience with a ‘‘teacher or other caretaker.’’ None of the heterosexuals were recorded as having a teacher as their first sex partner. (Gebhard & Johnson, 1979, supra.)

12 posted on 08/30/2002 5:19:06 AM PDT by Bryan
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To: Skooz
I assume it is her contention that more girls than boys have been molested by priests

Kinda hard to compare since the opportunity would be much less.
People would tend to be suspect of young girls going on overnights with priests or frequently being in their company

The point being missed on this entire debate is you don't put people who are sexually attracted to either their own sex or the opposite sex in postions where they have close contact or close personal supervision

That includes male heterosexuals with young girls or homosexuals with young boys

This common sense aspect is harly ever addressed
13 posted on 08/30/2002 5:19:15 AM PDT by uncbob
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In the 1978 McCall’s magazine study of 1,400 principals, 7% reported complaints about homosexual contact between teachers and pupils and 13% reported complaints about heterosexual contact between teachers and pupils. (In other words, although heterosexuals are 49 times more numerous than homosexuals, there were only twice as many child-molesting complaints about them.) Also, 2% of the principals ‘‘knew of instances in which teachers discussed their homosexuality in class.’’ (Hechinger G & Hechinger FM. ‘‘Should Homosexuals Be Allowed To Teach?’’ McCall’s 1978, 105: 100.) Of 400 consecutive Australian cases of molestation, seven boys and four girls were assaulted by male teachers. Thus 64% of those assaults were homosexual. (McGeorge J. ‘‘Sexual Assaults On Children.’’ Medical Science & The Law 1964, 4: 245-253.)

D. Homosexuals and the Boy Scouts

Justice Ignazio Ruvolo of the First District Court of Appeals in San Francisco recently ruled that the Boy Scouts of America should be held responsible for a Southern California Scout's sexual molestation at the hands of a pedophile Scout leader. Why? In making his case that the Scouting organization -- despite a comprehensive national program to prevent sexual abuse -- should have done even more to protect kids from pedophiles, the judge said, ‘‘It should be reasonably foreseeable to the Scouts that a child participating in Scouting might fall prey to a sexual predator.’’ Attorney Charles A. Bonner, representing the victim who had been molested in 1991 by his assistant scoutmaster, Jorge Paz, was even more direct. He said BSA national leaders know that ‘‘the organization attracts pedophiles like a magnet attracts metal.’’

A nationwide investigation of child molestation in Scouting showed that there have been 1,151 complaints by Boy Scouts of abuse by Scout leaders in the preceding nineteen years. This makes, the article stated, ‘‘sex abuse more common in Scouting than accidental deaths and serious injuries. In that time, at least 416 men have been arrested or banned from Scouting for molesting boys in their care.’’ (Boyle P. ‘‘The Scouts’ Badge of Dishonor.’’ Insight, June 17, 1991, p. 12.) The Boy Scouts spend nearly $50,000 per month in litigation of such cases -- throwing child molesters out of Scouting and defending themselves against lawsuits by molested boys -- in case the reader wonders why they're so adamant on the subject.

Homosexuals freely admit among themselves the importance of child abuse to their lifestyle. In the NAMBLA Bulletin, the organization added the following statement to its monthly manifesto, ‘‘Where We Stand’’: ‘‘Throughout most of Western history (and not only Western), pederasty has been the primary form of homoeroticism, and it is this love for which NAMBLA stands.’’ (NAMBLA Bulletin, January 1994.) Homosexual writer Carl Maves says, ‘‘How many gay men, I wonder, would have missed out on a valuable, liberating experience -- one that initiated them into their sexuality -- if it weren't for so-called molestation?’’ (Maves C. ‘‘Getting Over It.’’ The Advocate, May 5, 1992, p. 85.)

In fact, renowned sex researchers Masters & Johnson describe the process of establishing ‘‘homophile orientation’’ as follows: ‘‘In most cases, homophile interests developed in the early to mid-teens ... There was no history of overt heterosexual experience prior to homophile orientation. Recruitment usually was accomplished by an older male, frequently in his twenties, but occasionally men in their thirties were the initiators. When the homosexual commitment was terminated, in most cases, the relationship was broken by the elder partner. With termination, the teenager was left with the concept that whether or not he continued as an active homosexual, he would always be homophile-oriented.’’ (Masters C & Johnson O. Human Sexual Inadequacy. Boston: Little, Brown, 1970, p. 180.)

E. The Cover-Up

Realizing the incredible public relations disaster pedophiles represent to their cause, homosexual leaders have consistently tried to keep NAMBLA ‘‘out of sight’’ of middle America and to play down their historical association with child abuse. David Thorstad made this very clear when he complained that pedophilia was being swept under the rug by the homosexual rights movement, which ‘‘... seeks to sanitize the image of homosexuality to facilitate its entrance into the social mainstream. ... The issue of man-boy love has intersected the gay movement since the late nineteenth century.’’ (Thorstad D. ‘‘Man-Boy Love and the American Gay Movement.’’ Journal of Homosexuality, 1990, 20: 251-252.)

Proof of this ‘‘stealth’’ strategy is the fact that the 1993 March on Washington parade organizers banned NAMBLA from marching. A San Francisco homosexual tabloid noted this in an article lamenting that organizers were accused of ‘‘discriminating.’’ The article described NAMBLA as an ‘‘intergenerational sex advocacy group.’’ It also quoted Larry Woods, a member of North Carolina's Gay and Lesbian Alliance in Chapel Hill, about the fact that NAMBLA members marched anyway in his contingent. ‘‘Most of us felt sorry for them ... I think the general consensus is that we're glad they joined us.’’ (‘‘M0W: The Results Are In,’’ Bay Area Reporter, May 6, 1993, p. 18.)

The fact of this cover-up is quite obvious. ‘‘The Overhauling of Straight America,’’ the landmark playbook for homosexual strategy, makes that very clear. ‘‘NAMBLA must play no part in such a campaign. Suspected child molesters will never look like victims ... The masses must not be repulsed by premature exposure to homosexual behavior itself. First let the camel get his nose inside the tent, and only later his unsightly derriere.’’ (Kirk M & Pill E. ‘‘The Overhauling of Straight America,’’ Guide, November 1987, pp. 14-24.) The point is clear: homosexual activists know full well how prevalent pedophilia is in their midst. They merely want to conceal it until public acceptance is high enough to safely acknowledge it.

V. The Push for ‘‘Pedophile Rights’’

It should come as no surprise that militant homosexual manifestoes, such as ‘‘The 1972 Gay Rights Platform,’’ have consistently called upon governments to: (1) ‘‘Repeal all state laws prohibiting private sexual acts involving consenting persons [not consenting adults],’’ and (2) ‘‘Repeal of all laws governing the age of sexual consent.’’ (Magnuson RJ. Are Gay Rights Right? Portland, OR: Multnomah Press, 1990, p. 89.)

In 1991, under considerable lobbying pressure by homosexual activists and their liberal supporters, the state of New Jersey significantly lowered the age of consent in laws relating to sexual behavior within its borders. In 1993, Washington Times reported that the University of Massachusetts at Amherst had revised its nondiscrimination policy to protect ‘‘persons whose sexual orientation includes minor children as the sex object.’’ (‘‘PC 101,’’ Washington Times, May 27, 1993, p. B-1.)

Dr. John Money, a retired professor of medical psychology and pediatrics at Johns Hopkins University, was quoted as saying, ‘‘... pedophilia should be viewed as a sexual orientation, not a disease or disorder.’’ The same article quotes John DeCecco, head of the Human Sexuality Program at San Francisco State University, as telling his students that ‘‘adult-child sex’’ is a legitimate expression of sexuality. (Ebert M. ‘‘Pedophilia Steps into the Daylight,’’ Focus on the Family Citizen, November 16, 1992, pp. 6-8.) The 31st Annual Conference of the Society of the Scientific Study of Sex featured an ‘‘expert’’ on sex offenders and child sex abuse who argued that pedophilia may be an ‘‘orientation,’’ not a perversion. She also suggested that pedophiles, too, have sexual rights. (New York Post, October 20, 1990.)

‘‘The love between men and boys is at the foundation of homosexuality. For the gay community to imply that boy-love is not homosexual love is ridiculous.’’ (‘‘No Place for Homo-Homophobia,’’ letter to the editor, San Francisco Sentinel, March 26, 1992.) ‘‘We shall sodomize your sons, emblems of your feeble masculinity, of your shallow dreams and vulgar lies. We shall seduce them in your schools, in your dormitories, in your gymnasiums, in your locker rooms, in your sports arenas, in your seminaries, in your youth groups, in your movie theater bathrooms, in your army bunkhouses, in your truck stops, in your all-male clubs, in your houses of Congress, wherever men are with men together. Your sons will become our minions and do our bidding. They will be recast in our image. They will come to crave and adore us.’’ (Swift M. Gay Community News, February 15, 1987.) ‘‘Boy-lovers and the lesbians who have young lovers ... are not child molesters. The child abusers are priests, teachers, therapists, cops and parents who force their staid morality onto the young people in their custody.’’ (Califia P. ‘‘Man/Boy Love and the Lesbian/Gay Movement.’’ The Age of Taboo: Gay Male Sexuality, Power and Consent. Boston: Alyson Publications, 1981, p. 144.)

As these statements prove, pedophilia is not only a basic part of the homosexual lifestyle, it’s also one of the most frightening aspects of their political agenda. Whether examining surveys of the general populace or counts of those caught, homosexual teachers are disproportionately likely to become sexually involved with children. Study after nationwide study has yielded estimates of male homosexuality that range between 1% and 3%. The proportion of lesbians in these studies is almost always lower, usually about half that of male homosexuals. So, overall, perhaps 2% of adults regularly indulge in homosexuality. Yet they account for between 20% and 40% of all molestations of children.

Child molestation is not to be taken lightly. If 2% of the population is responsible for 20% to 40% of something as socially and personally troubling as child molestation, something must be desperately wrong with that 2%. Not every homosexual is a child molester. But enough homosexuals do molest children so that the risk of a homosexual molesting a child is 10 to 20 times greater than that of a heterosexual.

VI. Violence and Homosexuality

In 1992 two Jeffersonville, Indiana lesbians, aged 17 and 16, abducted a 12-year-old girl whom they accused of trying to ‘‘steal a girlfriend.’’ The little girl was pushed into the trunk of a car, stabbed repeatedly, and beaten with a heavy metal bar. While still struggling, they poured gasoline on her and set her ablaze. Later that year a Fort Lauderdale, Florida 14-year-old was convicted of first-degree murder for helping to kill his 40-year-old father. The father ‘‘was stabbed 45 times and beaten so badly with an iron skillet that the skillet shattered.’’ The boy confessed that he helped his father’s former homosexual lover and roommate kill him so he and the 31-year-old ‘‘could live together.’’

These murders fit traditional psychiatric opinion: excessive violence is naturally associated with other forms of social pathology. From this perspective, those who rebel against society’s norms -- homosexuals, prostitutes, alcoholics, etc. -- are more apt to be violent also. Homosexual leaders reply that they are not pathological, rebellious, or sexually deviant. They contend that homosexuals are gentle, loving people and that the violence they experience proves that they need special ‘‘hate crime’’ laws to protect them from non-homosexual ‘‘gay bashers.’’

Who’s right? Does the excess of violence naturally well up from within a pathological homosexual subculture, or do outsiders direct it toward homosexuals? Keeping in mind that only about 2%-3% of adults are homosexual or bisexual, let’s examine varieties of violence.

The ‘‘hate crimes’’ homosexuals complain about are infrequent and seldom involve more than name-calling or snide remarks. The FBI reported 431 hate crimes against homosexuals for the US in all of 1991. Only one was ‘‘confirmed’’ for Washington, DC -- yet DC homosexual activists claimed 397 incidents! When pressed, they admitted that at least 366 of these ‘‘crimes’’ consisted of verbal harassment. (‘‘FBI Releases Stats On Hate Crimes.’’ Washington Blade, January 1, 1993, p. 1.)

A. Murder and Mass Murder

Although the total number of victims dispatched by a given killer is often in doubt, (e.g., homosexual Henry Lucas claimed that he killed 350), it appears that the post-war world record for serial killing is held by a Russian homosexual, Andrei Chikatilo, who was convicted in 1992 of raping, murdering and eating parts of at least 21 boys, 17 women and 14 girls. The pathology of eating one’s sexual victims also characterized Milwaukee’s Jeffrey Dahmer in 1992. He not only killed 17 young men and boys, but cooked and ate their body parts.

The top six US male serial killers were all homosexual:

• Donald Harvey claimed 37 victims in Kentucky;

• John Wayne Gacy raped and killed 33 boys in suburban Chicago, burying them under his house and in his yard;

• Patrick Kearney accounted for 32, cutting his victims into small pieces after sex and leaving them in trash bags along the Los Angeles freeways;

• Bruce Davis molested and killed 27 young men and boys in Illinois;

• A homosexual sex-murder-torture ring (Corll-Henley-Brooks) sent 27 Texas men and boys to their graves; and

• Juan Corona was convicted of murdering 25 migrant workers (he ‘‘made love’’ with their corpses).

Lesbian Aileen Wuornos laid claim in 1992 to ‘‘worst female killer’’ with at least ten middle-aged male victims. She singlehandedly topped the lesbian nurse team of Catherine Wood and Gwen Graham, who had killed six convalescent patients in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

The association between serial murder and homosexuality isn’t recent. Two homosexuals compete for the spot of ‘‘world’s worst murderer.’’ During the Nazi reign of terror, Auschwitz executioner Ludwig Tiene strangled, crushed, and gnawed boys and young men to death while he raped them. Though his grand total is uncertain, he often murdered as many as 100 a day. Gilles de Rais (Bluebeard) brutally destroyed the lives of 800 boys. Each lad was lured to his home, bathed and fed. Just as the poor boy thought ‘‘this is my lucky day,’’ he was raped, then killed by being ripped or cut apart and either burned or eaten.

A study of 518 sexually-tinged mass murders in the US from 1966 to 1983 determined that 350 (68%) of the victims were killed by those who practiced homosexuality and that 19 (44%) of the 43 murderers were bisexuals or homosexuals. Though probably less than a majority of mass murderers are homosexual, given that no more than 3% of the populace is gay, homosexual murderers show up much more frequently than one would expect (even Richard Speck engaged in homosexuality).

Along with serial murder, there appears to be a connection between homosexuality and murder. Evidence from before the homosexual rights movement is limited. Of 444 homicides in one jurisdiction from 1955 to 1973, investigators noted five clear ‘‘sexual motivation’’ murders. Three of the five involved homosexuality and two involved heterosexuality. (Swigert VL et al. ‘‘Sexual Homicide: Social, Psychological, and Legal Aspects.’’ Archives of Sexual Behavior 1976, 3: 391-401.)

Jim Warren, who worked as a counselor at the Washington State Corrections Center, did the intake interview for almost all the younger murderers (i.e., under age 36) in the state of Washington from 1971-82 (during the growth of the ‘‘gay rights’’ movement). He was ‘‘probably the only one who examined the entirety of each of their case files.’’ Warren testified before the Law and Justice Committee of the Washington State Senate on December 15, 1989 that he was struck with how frequently homosexuality turned up in the cases.

Starting with a trickle of two or three murders per year in 1972, and growing to dozens per year by the 1980s, Warren noted a recurrent pattern. Although the motive listed in the report was often robbery or theft, ‘‘about 50% of the time’’ it was also associated with homosexuality. Typically, a homosexual would meet someone at a bar or park and invite him to his home. Before morning, an argument would ensue and he or his visitor would be dead.

B. Violent Sexual Practices

A substantial minority of homosexuals (between 22% and 37%) indulge in painful or violent sex (e.g., bondage and discipline, where the partner is physically restrained and mildly tortured, or sadomasochism, where partners are tortured or hurt during sex). (Gebhard & Johnson, 1979, supra; Jay & Young, 1979, supra.) Even in the 1940s, psychiatrist David Abrahamsen noted, ‘‘It is well known that homosexual inclinations may be accompanied by sadistic or masochistic tendencies. ... These perversions play a great part in many sexual offenses and in many cases of murder.’’ (Abrahamsen D. Crime and the Human Mind. New York: Columbia Univ. Press, 1944, p. 122.)

• Homosexual books and magazines celebrate the ‘‘fun’’ of violent sex. For instance, a Denver columnist (the ‘‘leathersex fairy’’), told his readers how to strangle and flog one’s partner during sex. He also extolled the practice of ‘‘hanging from a tree by meat hooks through the pectoral muscles’’ and described ‘‘guys who like to have burning cigars, cigarettes, or matches held near or pressed into their skin.’’ (Out Front, August 5, 1992, p. 10.)

• In 1993, London homosexuals raised £100,000 to appeal a conviction in which the judge ruled that ‘‘sex is no excuse for violence. ... Pleasure derived from the infliction of pain is an evil thing.’’ The crime? ‘‘Nailing a foreskin and scrotum to a board’’ and ‘‘pouring hot wax in a urethra.’’ (Smith D & Rodgerson G. ‘‘Free the Spanner Men.’’ Gay Times, April 1993, p. 8.)

• The 1980 CBS-TV documentary, ‘‘Gay Power, Gay Politics’’ reported that about 10% of the accidental deaths among young men in San Francisco resulted from sadomasochistic sex gone awry.

C. Deliberately Infecting Others During Sex

Homosexual activists often argue that what consenting adults do in private is nobody else’s business. However, many homosexuals have sex with so many different partners that they increase their risk of getting or transmitting sexually transmitted diseases (STDs). (Gebhard & Johnson, 1979, supra; Jay & Young, 1979, supra.)

Most who get an STD decide that they will do all in their power not to infect others. But others -- an important minority -- decide that they will make their partners suffer as much as they have. ‘‘[E]very historian of disease knows that such an attitude of vengeance, or at least of recklessness, had contributed in other times to the spread of tuberculosis and syphilis.’’ (Grmek M. History of AIDS. Princeton, NJ: Princeton Univ. Press, 1990, p. 19.) Limited evidence suggests that, compared to heterosexuals, homosexuals are more likely to harm their sexual partners deliberately. The only comparative study on this issue found that about 1% of male and female heterosexuals compared to 7% of male homosexuals and 3% of lesbians admitted to deliberately passing on STDs that they had acquired. (Gebhard & Johnson, 1979, supra.)

When the disease is AIDS, the personal and social costs of deliberate infection are exceptionally high. Several examples of homosexuals who were deliberate spreaders of AIDS have been documented, but the most notorious is that of ‘‘Patient Zero,’’ the Canadian flight attendant who, until his death at age 32, shared his body and infection with 250 men every year. From the late 1970s through the early 1980s, he was personally responsible for at least 40 of the first 248 American cases of AIDS, and told public health officials in San Francisco it ‘‘was nobody else’s business but his own.’’ (Grmek, 1990, supra.)

There also appears to be a connection between the practice of violent sex and one’s willingness to deliberately infect someone else. Three London STD clinics reported that almost half of their homosexual patients who knew they were infected with HIV had then contracted rectal gonorrhea. (Newell A et al. ‘‘Sexually Transmitted Diseases and Anal Papillomas.’’ British Medical Journal 1992, 305: 1435-6.) These homosexuals were not permitting their deadly infection to spoil their sexual fun. By 1993 over 100,000 US homosexuals had died of AIDS and tens of thousands had died of hepatitis B. Most of these had been infected, either deliberately or carelessly, by other homosexuals.

D. Homosexual Rape

The National Crime Survey reported that about one of every 10,000 males over the age of 11 is raped each year (vs. 13 of every 10,000 females) -- that is, about 7% of rapes are homosexual. (Harlow CW. ‘‘Female Victims of Violent Crime.’’ US Dept. of Justice, January 1991, NCJ-126826. Bachman R. ‘‘Crime Victimization in City, Suburban and Rural Areas.’’ US Dept. of Justice, 1992, NCJ-135943.) In two jurisdictions, Columbia, SC and Memphis, TN, males accounted for 5.7% of the victims of rape reported to authorities -- in only one instance was the assailant a woman. (Forman B. ‘‘Reported Male Rape.’’ Victimology 1983, 7: 235-6. Lipscomb GH et al. ‘‘Male Victims of Sexual Assault.’’ Journal of the American Medical Ass’n 1992, 267: 3064-66.)

Along with the rise of the homosexual rights movement, homosexual rape of men appears to have increased in the past few decades. (Gebhard & Johnson, 1979, supra; Forman, 1983, supra; Harlow, 1991, supra; Bachman, 1992, supra.) Homosexual rape is twice as common in urban areas where homosexuals congregate than in suburban or rural areas. (Harlow, 1991, supra; Bachman, 1992, supra.) It may also be more common where the homosexual subculture is accepted: a 1970 study in San Francisco found that 9% of male heterosexuals, 24% of male homosexuals, 2% of female heterosexuals and 11% of lesbians reported having been homosexually raped. (Bell AP et al. Sexual Preference: Statistical Appendix. Bloomington, IN: Indiana Univ. Press, 1981.) More alarmingly, 25% of white homosexuals admitted to sex with boys 16 or younger when they were aged 21 or older. (Bell, 1981, supra.)

Rape at any age is violent and emotionally devastating. But it can also edge victims toward homosexuality. Thus the Masters & Johnson Institute reported that a ‘‘25-year-old man had had his first sexual experience when he was 13 years old. It was arranged by his lesbian mother with an older gay man. After that episode, his imagery and interpersonal sexual experience were exclusively homosexual.’’ (Schwartz MF & Masters WH, 1984, supra.) Likewise, ‘‘Mr. K, age 22, felt that his change in sexual preference was related to his having been raped by two men. ... After the assault he experienced sexual identity confusion and began engaging voluntarily in homosexual activity. When he was seen for evaluation he labeled himself as openly homosexual.’’ (Goyer PF & Eddleman HC. ‘‘Same-Sex Rape of Non-Incarcerated Men.’’ American Journal of Psychiatry 1984, 141: 576-579.)

Based on data from a study of non-incarcerated child sex offenders, Dr. Gene G. Abel has found that homosexuals ‘‘sexually molest young boys with an incidence that is occurring five times greater than the molestation of girls.’’ On average, 150.2 boys are molested per homosexual pedophile offender, whereas only 19.8 girls are molested per heterosexual pedophile offender. (Abel et al., 1987, supra.) The total population of homosexual men in America was no more than 2 million in 1991. During the same year, ‘‘US Population, Statistical Abstracts’’ show that 6-8 million boys under age 18 had been sexually abused at some time prior to age 18.

Meanwhile, the population of heterosexual men in the US was approximately 86-88 million in 1991, and an estimated 8 million girls had been sexually abused at some time prior to age 18. Based on the government's own statistics -- the ‘‘Statistical Abstract of the United States, 1992, Data on Boys and Girls,’’ published by the US Commerce Department -- the following conclusions can be reached for 1991:

Of 86-88 million heterosexual men, 9% of them victimized 8 million girls under age 18, which constitutes 25% of all girls. An uncertain percentage of the estimated 2 million homosexual men victimized 6-8 million boys, under age 18, amounting to 17-24% of all boys. Therefore, considered in the aggregate, 3-4 boys are sexually molested per homosexual adult male. Only 0.09 girls are sexually molested per heterosexual adult male.

Within the child protection establishment, sexual abuse is defined simply as an adult having sexual contact with a juvenile under age 18 -- whether ‘‘consensual’’ or not. When dealing with children, ‘‘consensual’’ is not the legitimizing criterion it is for adults. Indeed, almost invariably, sexual predators defend their ‘‘loving’’ physical relationships with children as being ‘‘consensual,’’ when in reality the seduction and manipulation of children -- resulting in their ‘‘consent’’ -- is both an art form and the stock in trade of pedophiles.

Further corroborating this well-hidden homosexual proclivity for targeting younger males are the following findings published in the Journal of the American Medical Association: 50% of male AIDS victims reported having sex with an adult male by the age of 16, and 20% of male AIDS victims had sex with an adult male by age 10. The Advocate conducted a survey of its readers and, of the 2,500 responses obtained, 21% admitted that an adult man committed a sexual act with them by the time they were 15.

VI. Goals of Homosexual Activists

The homosexual movement is forthright about seeking to legitimize child-adult homosexual sex. In 1987, The Journal of Homosexuality -- the scholarly organ of the homosexual rights movement -- published ‘‘Pedophilia and the Gay Movement.’’ Author Theo Sandfort detailed homosexual efforts to end ‘‘oppression towards pedophilia.’’ (Issue #13, pp. 89-107.) In 1980 the largest Dutch homosexual organization (the COC) ‘‘adopted the position that the liberation of pedophilia must be viewed as a gay issue ... [and that] ages of consent should therefore be abolished ... by acknowledging the affinity between homosexuality and pedophilia, the COC has quite possibly made it easier for homosexual adults to become more sensitive to erotic desires of younger members of their sex, thereby broadening gay identity.’’ In 1990 COC achieved a significant victory: lowering of the age of consent for homosexual sex in Holland to 12 (unless the parents object, in which case it goes up to 15). (Stonewall Union Reports, February 1991.)

In the US and Canada, the North American Man-Boy Love Association marches proudly in many ‘‘pride parades’’ with the stated goal of removing the barriers to man-boy sex. Note the phrases ‘‘oppression towards pedophilia" and ‘‘liberation of pedophilia.’’ It is clear that those who advocate the legalization of sex between adults and children intend to argue that such conduct is a ‘‘civil right,’’ deserving of the same legal protections afforded to other minorities. A large proportion of Americans regard that argument as a mere pretext to giving sexual predators free reign to take advantage of vulnerable children.

VII. Conclusion

Roughly 2%-3% of American adults are homosexual. Under substantial pressure from homosexual activists, a slender majority of American psychiatrists contend that homosexuality is not a mental illness. Their own research indicates that the psychiatric associations in 122 out of 124 foreign countries disagree with them, and that homosexuals exhibit a greater incidence of personality characteristics that suggest emotional disturbance.

In line with traditional psychiatric opinion, violence goes hand-in-hand with the ‘‘gay’’ lifestyle. Almost all the exposure by homosexuals to violence and disease is encountered within the homosexual subculture. While violence toward homosexuals is deplorable, a great deal of that violence is committed by fellow homosexuals. Although homosexual advocates claim that sexual practices between consenting adults should remain private, the social and monetary costs of AIDS and other STDs (coupled with the promiscuity and other risky behaviors that are so prevalent in their lifestyle) suggest a different approach.

The homosexual rights movement is up front in its desire to legitimize sex with children. Whether indexed by population reports of molestation, pedophile convictions, or teacher-pupil assaults, there is a strong, disproportionate association between child molestation and homosexuality. Ann Landers’ claim that homosexuals molest children at no higher a rate than heterosexuals do is untrue. The assertion by homosexual leaders and the American Psychiatric Association that a homosexual is less likely than a heterosexual to molest children is patently false.

14 posted on 08/30/2002 5:20:01 AM PDT by Bryan
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To: *SASU; JMJ333; Tourist Guy; EODGUY; abandon; Khepera; Dakmar; RichInOC; RebelDawg; Fiddlstix; ...
15 posted on 08/30/2002 5:20:54 AM PDT by Khepera
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Having said all that -- my previous two posts include a great deal of material from some of Dr. Paul Cameron's pamphlets -- the following needs to be said.

Dr. Cameron founded his own organization, the Family Research Institute. Their website can be found at the link below, and the texts of his pamphlets are available there online:

The response of the homosexual Left to Dr. Cameron has been a brutal full-court press. However, he is still a licensed mental health professional. Dr. Cameron has done a great deal of original research into this topic, but due to the fact that some of it is not methodologically sound, for the sake of argument all of Dr. Cameron's original work should be disregarded.

However, Dr. Cameron's summaries of research by other mental health professionals is accurate and very useful. Where Dr. Cameron summarizes the work of Bell & Weinberg, or Jay & Young, or Marshall et al., those summaries are 100% accurate and they expose the very real problems with homosexual lifestyles.

Dr. Judith Reisman has arrived on the scene recently and she is a paid consultant (along w ith Dr. Timothy Dailey) for a similar organization, the Family Research Council -- their website can be found at the link below:

Like Dr. Cameron, Drs. Reisman and Dailey have provided valuable and accurate summaries of research by many other licensed mental health professionals. When they are faced with a solid phalanx of scientific facts, the homosexual Left will attack the messenger rather than attempting to refute the message.

In fact, I'm convinced that this tactic appears on Page Six of the Official Left-Wing Playbook. The facts are there and they are accurate. The only thing that the Left can do is attack the people who gathered these facts.

There's also another excellent resource that I'd like to provide -- the website for another organization called the Citizens for Parents' Rights. All three of these (CPR, FRC and FRI) will be dismissed by the homosexual Left as "right wing" and CPR openly identifies its Christian philosophy. But the information that they have gathered (with the sole exception of Dr. Cameron's original research) is accurate.

CPR has a "myths page" which lists 17 myths (I prefer to call them "lies") being spread by the homosexual Left, and links to other web pages on the site which counter those lies with the truth:

Probably the best single-page links I can provide that have gathered all the facts about homosexuality and child molesting in concise form are as follows:

16 posted on 08/30/2002 5:48:44 AM PDT by Bryan
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To: George W. Bush; Manny Festo; Cultural Jihad
17 posted on 08/30/2002 5:52:19 AM PDT by Bryan
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To: Bryan
Worth bumping and bookmarking.
18 posted on 08/30/2002 6:39:53 AM PDT by NotJustAnotherPrettyFace
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I don't know why that organization exists at all? You know that pedophiles are just flocking to it. That has got to be high on their list of places to go.
19 posted on 08/30/2002 6:43:23 AM PDT by Dialup Llama
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To: UbIwerks; Skooz; TomB
Five bucks says Lisa Tinker is gay herself, and a letter-writer for GLAAD.

Tinker's letter trashing Reisman's work as regurgitated Paul Cameron doesn't square with Reisman's footnoted papers on e.g. monster pederast-sadomasochist Alfred Kinsey.

Here's Reisman on Kinsey's research methods:

Reisman makes several statements in her article just linked to the effect that she has had a tough time from the American Psychiatric Association, which was rolled by the gay community working through gay psychiatrists in 1973. How that happened is described in this linked 1998 JAMA article about the APA's 25th-anniversary retrospective festivities celebrating their dark victory (see esp graf 10):

Here is the American Psychiatric Association's own lookback article; notice in particular the pointed reference to "gay-affirmative psychiatry". Doesn't that sound like something called "outreach"?

By the way, there are no fewer than three "APA" organizations in the psychological sciences: The American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, and the American Psychoanalytical Association. All have websites. Good luck telling them apart.

The gay APA assault team relied on a study by Evelyn Hooker, described in a hostile article here:

Now that you know what gay-friendly science has to say about the storming of the APA, here is another account. This article is a Charles Socarides review of a 1999 NARTH reprint of a 1987 article contributed to the book "Scientific Controversies: Case Studies" [shortened title] by Irving Bieber, who was a dissenting participant in the 1973 debate and who had, when APA fell, previously completed a longitudinal study of "reparative therapy" rates among homosexuals during the 1950's and 1960's. Bieber's work had suggested psychological components to homosexuality that, in about 25% of his study patients, had allowed him to show progress in "curing" homosexuality through psychotherapy.

Meanwhile, after the fall of APA and DSM-II, numbers of psychiatrists and psychologists of the older generation, who haven't been purged and purified in school by the PC Police, have continued to agree with Bieber on a psychological component to homosexuality. There used to be a survey of the opinions of mental-health professionals concerning the etiology of homosexuality here:

but surprise, surprise, it's been taken down. Just coincidentally, of course, it showed that the New Truth about "gay essentialism" (i.e., if you're gay, you're gay) had achieved a whole lot less acceptance in the scientific community than the noisy, PC committees of APA would like us to know about.

NARTH scientists attack the gay essentialists in a NARTH article here:

But while NARTH and Reisman are busy attacking the gay apologists, the gays are busy, too. This article by the hated Paul Cameron, which however is heavily footnoted and reports widely on the work of others, associates higher molestation activity levels with gay molesters:

and they are also up to stuff like this, via GLSEN and public education organizations:

20 posted on 08/30/2002 7:16:50 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: JCG; scripter; L.N. Smithee; Clint N. Suhks; Yakboy; ppaul; conserve-it; Travis McGee; Salvation; ..
BTTT for later...
21 posted on 08/30/2002 7:47:23 AM PDT by EdReform
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Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

To: EdReform
Lots of good stuff here. Thanks for the ping, bump.
23 posted on 08/30/2002 8:10:16 AM PDT by scripter
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BBBS won’t allow a male to mentor a female child, but our boys are at a greater risk if their mentor is homosexual.

This is the central point. The experience of the Catholic Church, in which a minority of priests (homosexuals), has caused 95% of the sexual molestations (against teenage boys) vividly illustrates the truth of Dr. Reisman's observations. Clearly, homosexual men a far, far more likely to molest teenage boys than heterosexual men are likely to molest teenage girls. If homosexual priests were not allowed close contact with teenage boys, the Catholic Church would not now be mired in deep shame, scandal, and the wreckage of lives its policies have produced.

24 posted on 08/30/2002 8:19:10 AM PDT by yendu bwam
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Howard refers to her as a “leading expert,” when in fact much of her “research” is merely recycled conjecture obtained from Paul Cameron. Cameron was dropped from membership in the American Psychological Association in 1984 for ethical violations concerning his biased and fraudulent research.

This is a homosexual lie. Dr. Reisman's research, or the part I have seen, relies on numerous studies conducted over the years. Dr. Reisman has said on many occassions that the only reason she has undertaken this sort of research is to product kids - like the thousands of teenage boys molested by homosexual priests in the Catholic Church (and in the Boy Scouts - prior to the enactment of homosexual molestation prevention policies).

25 posted on 08/30/2002 8:22:32 AM PDT by yendu bwam
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Apart from the dangers of molestation, which are very real, most regular people understand that homosexuality is at least partly (I believe heavily) brought about by environmental factors (relationships with the father, older brothers, relationships with kids of the same sex, molestation, etc.) Any loving parent would want their impressionable child to be mentored by someone who exhibits and encourages normal heterosexual feelings. Who would send their son out (particularly a fatherless son) with a homosexual guy who talks about his attractions to 'sexy' men - or who talks about his experiences with homosexual lovers? The last thing (the vast, vast, vast majority of) parents want is for their kids to grow up homosexual - with all the pain, sordidness and health risks that entails. Like the Catholic Church, BBBS has put the welfare of kids far lower than the PC support it feels it has to show for the radical gay agenda. Boy Scouts, in contrast, puts the welfare of kids first, where it should always be. Shame on BBBS. Homosexuals just can't stop pushing to be with YOUR kids. Watch out!
26 posted on 08/30/2002 8:29:44 AM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: Tom Bombadil
Judith Reisman's footnotes should provide the material you are looking for.

You're right. Her research is exhaustively documented and footnoted.

27 posted on 08/30/2002 8:31:26 AM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: Bryan
Thank you for your stats and documentation. What's so disturbing is that homosexuals don't just want to practice their bizarre sexual practices in their bedrooms - they want to get close to our children. People aren't going to take it anymore.
28 posted on 08/30/2002 8:36:06 AM PDT by yendu bwam
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Comment #29 Removed by Moderator

To: uncbob
The point being missed on this entire debate is you don't put people who are sexually attracted to either their own sex or the opposite sex in postions where they have close contact or close personal supervision. That includes male heterosexuals with young girls or homosexuals with young boys. This common sense aspect is harly ever addressed.

Of course. Which is why 85% of Boy Scout parents don't want their sons out on overnight camping trips with homosexual men.

30 posted on 08/30/2002 8:37:32 AM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: lentulusgracchus
But but but but......the link posted by madg leads to an anti-Christian hate site which has an article in which an obviously unbiased (uh huh) person named Poppy Dixon with (I am sure) unassailable credentials says bad things about her.

That proves all your links are filled with invalid info and everything Kinsey said is absolute truth. It also proves his "research" methods and findings are beyond reproach. Therefore, Big Brothers and Big Sisters are correct in their assertions and the priests who molested boys are not gay.

Wow, thanks to Poppy Dixon for clearing all that up.

31 posted on 08/30/2002 8:43:29 AM PDT by Skooz
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To: Bryan
Thanks for the links. Excellent.
32 posted on 08/30/2002 9:01:47 AM PDT by Skooz
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To: Bryan
33 posted on 08/30/2002 9:11:42 AM PDT by dennisw
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To: Bryan
Gosh. Too much to absorb. But seems to be lots of interesting and useful info here on this topic.

The ‘‘gay life’’ is short, lonely and filled with cheating, insecurity, disease and danger.

So they're not "gay" after all.

34 posted on 08/30/2002 9:39:21 AM PDT by john in missouri
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Can anyone verify or refute the claims made about Dr. Reisman and Paul Cameron in the second ("Volunteerism") letter?

Dr. Cameron has been the Gay-stapo's whipping boy for everything involving research indicating that homosexuality is not consistent. I have listened to interviews with Judith Reisman and read many of the press releases on her site, and I cannot remember her citing any of Cameron's work for her conclusions. If they have to resort to the smear-by-association strategy, chances are she's clean as a whistle.

Dr. Reisman is a heroine of mine, because she had the courage to say loudly what others had known but were reluctant to say: Alfred Kinsey, the progenitor of the so-called "New Morality" that spawned a culture that constantly turns up the hedonism level (slowed only briefly by the first decade of AIDS) is the proverbial naked emperor, and a child-rapist on top of all that.

35 posted on 08/30/2002 9:39:26 AM PDT by L.N. Smithee
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To: yendu bwam
I think your bishop should have a copy of this thread or at least Bryan's post.If he can read it and not do something that brings this to the attention of all catholics in his diocese then you can with assurance know positively that he is evil or stupid beyond belief.
36 posted on 08/30/2002 10:11:57 AM PDT by saradippity
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To: Skooz
I know this will shock! everybody here, but I see no reason why the Sheppard and Dirkhising cases should be compared (more than any two, randomly chosen murder cases should be compared).

The contention in the Sheppard case was that he was killed because he was homosexual. That is why the media made a fuss: It was supposedly an example of the virulence of homophobia in our society, etc., etc. Therefore, it makes some sense to compare the Sheppard case to the murder of James Byrd, where the motivation for the killing was apparently the victim's minority status (in Byrd's case, as a black man).

As far as I know, no one has ever claimed that Dirkhising was killed because he was straight. (I don't know that it's ever even been established that he was straight.) Therefore, the Dirkhising case does not serve as a counter-example of the virulence of gays' hatred of heterosexuals, and so is not a useful comparison to the Sheppard case.

In fact, I can't think of any useful comparison to the Sheppard case, i.e., an instance when a couple of gay men beat a straight man to death because he was straight.

Nevertheless, it might make sense to compare the Dirkhising case to the many recent cases in the news where presumably straight men violated, then killed, little girls. In all those situations, the victim was killed in connection with a (twisted) sexual act.

But, of course, if we were to compare the Dirkhising case to the recent rapes/murders of little girls, it wouldn't be as satisfying would it? After all, the ratio of gay rapist/murderers to straight rapist/murderers wouldn't be one-to-one. So that wouldn't serve the "agenda" of the Reismanites.

37 posted on 08/30/2002 10:13:36 AM PDT by Fethiye
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To: Skooz
Yeah, I caught that, too. I assume it is her contention that more girls than boys have been molested by priests. Like to see her source, but of course we won't.

If they were, they were dressed as altar boys.

38 posted on 08/30/2002 10:15:25 AM PDT by N. Theknow
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To: Fethiye
Straight murders gay = news. Victim is helpless martyr to the cause of diversity.
Gay murders straight = not news. Victim may have been gay and had it coming.


I can't think of any useful comparison to the Sheppard case, i.e., an instance when a couple of gay men beat a straight man to death because he was straight.

The motivation of the killers is more important than their actions? Huh?

Who has the agenda?

39 posted on 08/30/2002 10:26:22 AM PDT by Skooz
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To: one_particular_harbour
Who is yanking Reisman's strings?You who so eloquently bemoan the the evil abusive priests and have,or are suing them in court,surely want to get to the bottom of the problem,I would think.

Consequently,if a person has done research that points to a certain element of society as being at fault,is on the payroll of someone you do not like,you need to share that information with us.After all it would indeed be tragic if we were all led down a path that led us to false conclusions.This would in truth,delay fixing the problem and more little boys might be abused and as I said earlier,we all know how incensed you are about that.

So speak up or I will believe that your only objective is to destroy the Catholic Church and make a little money from your lawsuit and provide work for your compadres in the legal profession.

Furthermore,you are incorrect in your assertion about her credentials and methodology and I would bet you know that too. With respect to the P.O. Box,do you understand the danger that people who are not p.c. are in? Professionally and phyically they can be silenced.She is very brave as are so many others who have done studies that have come to the same conclusions.

40 posted on 08/30/2002 10:34:27 AM PDT by saradippity
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To: Skooz
I did not say that the Sheppard murder was "worse" than the Dirkhising murder. I don't think one was "worse" than the other.

What I said was the Sheppard murder was what is known as a "hate" crime, i.e., a crime motivated by the victim's social status. The Dirkhising murder was what is known as a "sex" crime, i.e., a crime committed in connection with a rape. Therefore the appropriate comparison of the Dirkhising case is to other sex crimes against children.

But maybe you're right: Let's use the sexual orientation of the perpetrator as the classification for comparison. But then we end up with a whole heap of murders committed by straights, and a much smaller number of murders committed by gays, don't we?

41 posted on 08/30/2002 10:35:03 AM PDT by Fethiye
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To: Fethiye
Let's use the sexual orientation of the perpetrator as the classification for comparison. Not at all.

Both were vicious, hateful murders and the killers are rightfully in prison. The "sexual orientation" of the murderers or victims is irrelevent to me.

I see your point that the motivation for one of these murders is "hate" (based upon the victim's sexual preference) and the motivation for the other is "sex." Could be, but that isn't really my point.

The point is not the heinous acts of the killers, but the reaction of the media. Could you imagine MTV producing a fawning and worshipful "documentary" about Jesse Dirkhising? Is it even conceivable?

I am not the one using "the sexual orientation of the perpetrator as the classification for comparison." Read Bozell's article above. The people doing this are the NY Times, Washington Post, et al.

42 posted on 08/30/2002 10:46:03 AM PDT by Skooz
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To: uncbob
That includes male heterosexuals with young girls or homosexuals with young boys

Bing and Go!

Common sense isn't.


43 posted on 08/30/2002 10:48:45 AM PDT by ArGee
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To: john in missouri
So they're not "gay" after all.

Back before the PC crap got started by the homophobes who were afraid of ACT-UP (the only true homophobes) there was a movie called "Fame." One of the characters is a homosexual. In one line of the movie he says something like "I don't mind being unhappy, really."

This movie portrayed him like he was. He wanted to feel normal but he wasn't. His life had been ruined by a father who left him and a mother who had no time for him. His miserable youth was leading him into a miserable adulthood, but nobody had any answers for him.

Today, of course, no queer would admit to being unhappy because they have to work together to maintain the facade and some have learned to lie to themselves thanks to having each other for support.

But the ex-gays will tell you.


44 posted on 08/30/2002 10:56:46 AM PDT by ArGee
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To: Fethiye
But, of course, if we were to compare the Dirkhising case to the recent rapes/murders of little girls, it wouldn't be as satisfying would it?

It would be ok with me if you compared the press coverage of Dirkshling with that girl who was abducted from her driveway or with Elizabeth Smart. I hear about those all the time.


45 posted on 08/30/2002 10:59:14 AM PDT by ArGee
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I think my citation and reference in the post above to Paul Cameron's use of a wide selection of references, including mostly peer-reviewed articles, refutes the polemical letter-writer's attempt (a very frequently encountered tactic on gay-themed threads: oh, [a person's entire life opus] doesn't count, because......[some specious characterization or obloquy]) to dismiss Cameron and rule him out of the discussion.

I'd say the writer of the second letter, feigning "interest" in the first writer's citations, attempted to refute science and research with argument ad populum and general calumny -- most of it undeserved. The newspaper did its readers no service at all, to run the second letter.

These issues need to be discussed. This writer didn't really discuss them, but only pretended to, while calling people names for holding an opinion at odds with her own politically correct (and probably self-serving) views.

46 posted on 08/30/2002 11:00:16 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: eastsider; Romulus
Interesting and informed thread for the archives.
47 posted on 08/30/2002 11:07:16 AM PDT by saradippity
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To: Always Right
" by creative definition gays aren't likely to be pedophiles. Go figure."

I figure that that's a self-serving little "circulus in probando" on their part. Which is typical.

For a better view on whether gays are likely to be a problem in this area, I found this post to FreeRepublic by our fellow Freeper, EdReform, to be helpful:


** "Homosexuals are the only self-identified group in the world to openly advocate pedophilia. Can you find me 12 publications from any other self-identifying group that supports pedophilia?

Gay Community News, Vol 4, #5, June 1982, asked; "How do you go about beating Anti-Pedophile attitudes"?

Gay magazine "Outrage" carried articles relating to Pedophilia in two thirds of its publications between April 1983 and July 1984.

The Journal of Homosexuality, 1987 published an article called; "Pedophilia and the Gay movement" detailing Homosexual efforts to end oppression of Pedophiles.

Gay Rights Group COC (Holland) in 1980 adopted the position that the Liberation of Pedophilia must be viewed as a Gay issue.

Gay Magazine "Outrage" Australia, May 1984 declared its editorial position on Pedophilia as "One of defence of the Civil Liberties of Pedophiles and alleged Pedophiles, and of the Right of Pedophiles to make their case in the Gay media".

The Gay Manifesto, London 1989 Calls for recognition of "Inter-generational" sex .

The Gay "Relationships" book by Charles Silverstein "Man to Man" says "Man/Boy love experiences (pedophilia) occurs too frequently to be ignored". He devoted a chapter to; "Love between the generations".

Lesbian book "Saphistry" says; "Lesbians feel it is not uncommon for an affectionate relationship between a child and an adult, since sexual desire can exist in children as well as adults"

"Sex between men and boys is the foundation of homosexuality." - 1992 editorial in The Sentinel, San Francisco's major pro-gay publication

Homosexual leaders blatantly voice tolerance for child sex abuse. A prominent gay magazine, Out, quoted Damien Martin, the head of New York's homosexual Harvey Milk High School, as saying, "No kid has ever been hurt by [oral sex]" in September, 1994 on page 73.

The leading gay publication, The Advocate, in an article titled Getting Over It pondered on May 5, 1992 about how many boys "would have missed out on a valuable, liberating experience-one that initiated them into their sexuality-if it weren't for so-called molestation?"

The nation's largest gay publicist, Alyson Publications of Boston, which distributes Daddy's Roommate and other homosexual books for kids, published Paedophilia: The Radical Case, hundreds of pages of why and how seven year old boys should be brought to climax. Another Alyson book, The Age Taboo on page 144 insists: "Boy-lovers... are not child molesters. The child abusers are... parents who force their staid morality onto the young people in their custody."

Source: Free Republic "Parents: Prompt Kids on Gay Issues (Not for the faint hearted)"
88 Posted on 05/07/2001 09:11:17 PDT by EdReform
48 posted on 08/30/2002 11:08:41 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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Comment #49 Removed by Moderator

To: one_particular_harbour
A well-reasoned and thoughtful post, including the sage advice of the first paragraph. I commend you.

Wow, that's the nicest thing I ever said to a lawyer.

50 posted on 08/30/2002 11:16:42 AM PDT by Skooz
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