Tour pros next in Augusta lobbying effort (Hootie Responds)

AP ^ | Sept. 3, 2002 | AP

[groanup]

"Can I ask a silly question?"

No. Just remember: when the going gets tough the tough go shopping.

[groanup]

"3.) It's freaking expensive. Yearly membership costs are probably well over $30,000"

You're right it is freaking expensive. But it is not well over $30,000 per year. There are no membership dues as I've heard it. Once a year (or more often if necessary) the members are assessed for club expenses. A few years ago they switched to bent grass greens. The cost was enormous. No problem. Just tell the members how much they owe.

[NYTexan]

No need really, They don't seem a need to bother about it, and are quite blatent about the whole matter.

[PMCarey]

FWIW, the hubby agrees with you. But he can't give me a decent answer on why the gender of a member matters, either. Just because a person can do something doesn't always mean they should. It's that simple.

I think you're being deliberatly obtuse here. Of course gender matters. That's why women get together for "girl talk" and men get together to watch football. The sexes are different in more ways than anatomy. If Augusta members prefer to have a club that has only men it's because they prefer the company of men and want the club set up to fit the needs of men.

If there were a female equivalent to Augusta, it certainly would be a different place - and I wouldn't have any problem with the women who would set up such a place.

[San Jacinto]

Men's clubs were founded to be a refuge, a place where men could go and smoke cigars, talk bidness, tell dirty jokes, sit around in big leather chairs and read the financial pages, drink some bourbon and branch water, get a massage, play gin rummy, and stuff like that. When this got started 70 to 100 years ago, there were such differences between the sexes in terms of social behavior that it made perfect sense to be "men only". In fact, it was an essential element of the purpose and mission of the club.

Men were expected to behave in a different fashion in the presence of ladies due to the sensibilities of the fairer sex. Even today, the once men's only clubs which now permit women have sections reserved for men only-- men's grill, card room, or such.

The people at Augusta National obviously have chosen to keep in place the long standing traditions from the days of the founding of the club. People like you or MS. Burke may point out times have changed and perceive these traditions as arbitrary or unfair. But some people revere tradition more than others. Some peoples' opinions may differ from yours and MS. Burke's as to whether distinctions in society in the roles of the sexes is a good or bad thing.

Some people simply respect the freedom of a private organization to make its on rules rather than be dictated to by some rather despicable fringe dwellers who can't stand to see such freedom exist.

If Augusta National wants to stay the way it is for no reason other than they like it better that way, then that should be good enough.

The more pertinent question is why do MS. Burke or you care if women join Augusta National? Why would you possibly care?

[X-FID]

I don't understand the problem with voicing disapproval of somebody's actions.

You can dissaprove of their choice of membership all you want, but what they do is their business. I don't know why some people can't understand the concept of a "PRIVATE CLUB".

I don't think you would like them coming for your private club, but maybe you wouldn't mind.

[Gunrunner2]

The fundamental nature of an all male organization would certainly change with the introduction of females. I know, I was a member of an all-male organization when it changed to accept females.

In my life, not too long ago, I was in an F-15E fighter squadron, happily doing the fighter pilot thing. Then one day we were notified that our world was about to come to an end.. (*Sigh. . .boy, I miss it. . .)

We were told the first female fighter pilot was going to be named that day and she would be inbound in a few months. Of course, we were told some changes would have to be made. An example of some of the changes follows.

Shortly before her arrival the squadron bars “lost” their Hog Logs. Hog Logs were books; journals really, that informally documented notable events of a fighter squadron. As you can imagine, the nature of the write-ups was direct, profane, merciless and fun. Just the sort of stuff you would expect from a bunch of type-A over-achievers as they sparred with each other.

Hog Logs are a tradition dating back to WWI. My squadron dates to WWII and had the Hog Logs to prove it. These logs vanished a day prior to the female’s arrival, as they were deemed by the leadership to be too sexist, too profane and too insensitive.

The removal of the Hog Logs, and other changes, caused the entire nature of the fighter pilot world to change. It changed from men freely doing a mans job to men frustrated by the shackles of political correctness.

No longer could banter be open and unrestrained, or events documented in blunt and colorful prose. Heck, you couldn’t say “F*ck” in the squadron without fear of chastisement if the wrong person heard it.

The special camaraderie was gone.

The open competition and free humor of the warrior class was now replaced by caution and restraint. No one wanted to offend the PC gawds (or gawdesses, as THEY defined the limits now).

No more could you write about boneheaded acts that your squadron mates engaged in that led to their butt-whipping in mid-air. No more could you gleefully regale all with a spoken tale about how some unlucky twists of fate made you look boneheaded (it was never your fault). Now these historical write-ups had to be written as if they were going to appear in a Dr. Seuss children’s book, and your spoken word was to be heard by your mother.

The all-male world changed, and not for the better.

[X-FID]

You have said it best as far as I'm concerned, females on combat ship's was also a bad idea and should be stopped, all nonsense social bs.

[Chu Gary]

"I think that it was an excellent move, as it takes away a lot of the negative press, catered to by the communist media, and it alleviates the potential for disruption of this event. Absolutely brilliant idea."

There aren't any poor members at Augusta. Some of the small-ish membership no doubt exists on family (inherited) money and may be a member just because of connections. However, many of the others earned their money because they are very smart and aggressive. I'm sure Hootie has a very, very good advisory council.

[NotJustAnotherPrettyFace]

So what would Burk change the name to? The Mistresses? The Dominatrix's?

You're probably not far off the mark.

Remember Betty Friedan's suitcase that spilled open?

[Zon]

An interesting twist would be for Augusta National to announce via press releases that they will admit one female membership (preferably an anti-feminist supermodel) for a membership fee of ten-million dollars.

[Psycho_Bunny]

BTW, there will come a day when a female golfer comes along who can drive as far as the guys in the PGA

Thanks for the best laugh I've had today.

[SpeakLittle_ThinkMuch]

It's simple...if it wasn't for the infrequent sex, bad cooking, and your very limited cleaning of the cave, we wouldn't want to hang around with your gender at all.

Didn't you ever notice that there are more gay men than gay women? Even they don't like y'all.............

[PBRSTREETGANG]

But he can't give me a decent answer on why the gender of a member matters, either.

As they say in court: "Asked and answered. Move on."

[an amused spectator]

There's got to be something else at work here.

God couldn't get a membership at Augusta National without going on the waiting list AND having the members vote him in.

The members don't respond well to pressure or lobbying, from ANYBODY.

[hoppity]

I doubt that the majority of members even play golf. These are Country Clubs, not just Golf Clubs. Golf is one aspect. The majority of the memberships are probably for social reasons. The same goes for L.A. Country Club, the Valley Club at Montecito (CA), Pauma Valley CC in the Palm Springs area. These courses get almost NO play. Only like 5-10% of the members play golf at all, let alone at the club courses. The Valley club gets about 5 or 10 players a day if it's busy.

They are business/ social clubs more than anything. Golf is a not at all the focus.