Bush Administration Plans Test Program of Guns in Cockpit

AP via TBO ^ | Sep 4, 2002 | Scott Lindlaw

[John W]

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Bush administration plans to adopt a small-scale test program of arming commercial pilots, reversing its previous opposition to guns in the cockpit. The administration is modeling its plan after similar proposals that circulated in Congress this summer. One such plan would have armed as many as 1,400 pilots, about 2 percent of those flying.

One government official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the administration was on the brink of announcing the decision.

Transportation Undersecretary John Magaw, who headed the new Transportation Security Administration until July, said in May he would not allow pilots to carry guns. Reinforced cockpits and armed air marshals provide enough protection against terrorists who try to take over an airplane, Magaw said.

"The responsibility of the pilot is to control the aircraft," Magaw said. "The use of firearms aboard a U.S. aircraft must be limited to those thoroughly trained members of law enforcement. Our position is make that cockpit as safe as we can, control that plane and get it on the ground."

Having thousands of armed pilots in airports would mean thousands of weapons that could fall into the wrong hands, Magaw said at the time. "We just don't want to subject the transportation system to additional firearms," he said.

But the House in July voted 310-113 to allow commercial pilots to carry guns, giving the proposal momentum, and Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta said soon afterward that he was re-examining the issue.

The administration is striving to reach a compromise between two camps - those who strongly oppose arming pilots, arguing, as Magaw did, that the government has already strengthened cockpit doors, bolstered airport security and is adding air marshals - and those who want all pilots armed, a government official said. NBC first reported the administration plan Wednesday night.

The airlines generally opposed plans to arm pilots, while the pilots' union and the National Rifle Association backed such proposals.

It wasn't clear Wednesday night how the government would decide whether to expand the program.

[TomGuy]

2% ?

That seems to be how serious the GWB administration is on terrorists in the US. Still open borders, amnesty for illegals, stripsearching 80 year old Caucasian ladies at the airport, now test-arming 2% of the pilots.

[Bahbah]

Yaaaay. They will expand the program. A glimmer of light?

[NoControllingLegalAuthority]

What is the purpose of a test? Are they going to see if these 1,400 pilots can manage to keep from accidentally shooting themselves or each other on the flight deck during the test period?

Ridiculous. Arm them all RIGHT NOW!

[Bahbah]

Camels noses in the tent. Could it be a good thing. So often we go the other way.

[pttttt]

It's a start. Although a slow one.

[lawdude]

I'm betting it won't be a week before a crazed pilot goes through the plane, shooting any and all before him. He will then apologise and re-register as a democrat!

[Blood of Tyrants]

It is nothing but a bullsh#t token to try to head off the impending vote in the Senate that would bypass the president altogether and give ALL pilots the right to arm themselves.

Bush is NOT a conservative, he is a "compassionate" conservative, i.e. socially conservative, economically liberal, and for bigger, more intrusive government.

[CWRWinger]

The Bush administration plans to adopt a small-scale test program of arming commercial pilots

There is a long held theory which states everytime the government gets involved, there are problems. When I first started flying on commercial airlines, pilots could be armed and frequently were. I don't recall the government setting a criteria then.

The rebels who operate our government and dictate to us what our freedoms are, can't stand the thought bringing back an old liberty and right without their micro-managing control.

I can just see what this 'test program' will look like: 75% multi-cultural training, 20% criminal rights training and 5 rounds fired at an indoor range.

[Darth Sidious]

Bush is NOT a conservative, he is a "compassionate" conservative, i.e. socially conservative, economically liberal, and for bigger, more intrusive government.

Let's state the obvious in four words...

Bush is a socialist.

[kylaka]

I don't think Bush is a Socialist. That said, being a little bit socialist, is like being a little bit pregnant.

[meyer]

That seems to be how serious the GWB administration is on terrorists in the US. Still open borders, amnesty for illegals, stripsearching 80 year old Caucasian ladies at the airport, now test-arming 2% of the pilots.

I agree that the number is small, but its a very strong step in the right direction, especially considering that the administration was flat-out against this idea several months ago. I think that the program will be successful as it increases the odds that there will be an armed captain awaiting at the cockpit door if anybody should decide to breach it.

[joesnuffy]

Having thousands of armed pilots in airports would mean thousands of weapons that could fall into the wrong hands, Magaw said at the time. "We just don't want to subject the transportation system to additional firearms," he said.

ya wouldnt want anything falling into the wrong hands...... Feds loose laptops and hundreds of weapons http://theregister.co.uk/content/7/20453.html

[joesnuffy]

FBI 'loses' hundreds of laptops and guns
By John Leyden
Posted: 18/07/2001 at 10:35 GMT

An audit on the FBI has revealed it is missing hundreds of laptop computers,
many of which are believed to have been stolen from under the nose of the
agency.

Ashen-faced FBI officials have been forced to admit 184 computers are
unaccounted for and that three of these machines are believed have
sensitive material on their hard disks, and one is known to hold classified
data. Of the missing machines 13 are believed to have been nicked.

To make matters worse 449 weapons - including some sub-machine guns
among the cache of handguns- are missing from the Bureau's armoury, of
which 265 were lost and 184 stolen, according to officials.

The frankly quite alarming losses came to light during the course of
comprehensive audit of the agency carried out on behalf of the US
Department of Justice.

FBI officials said that the bureau has roughly 50,000 guns and 13,000
computers, or at least they did last time they looked.

Last year the State Department admitted that it had "misplaced" a laptop
containing highly classified information and agents of Britains security
services have been known to leave laptops in Tapas bar after a night on the
razz, so the phenomenon of spooks not taking care of PCs is hardly unknown.
However the extent of the FBI's loss will be extremely hard for the agency,
which is trusted with America's domestic security, to explain away.

The losses reportedly took place over the course of 11 years and are
attributed a variety of causes including retiring agents keeping hold of
weapons and the loss of laptops as they were been transferred around the
different offices that shared them. This doesn't go anywhere near getting
the FBI off the hook on the issue or restoring public trust in the organisation,
which has suffered a series of setbacks in recent months.

Chief among these is the arrest of FBI agent Robert Hanssen, after his
admission that he spied for the Russians for the best part of two decades,
selling closely guarded secrets to the Soviet Union. The Bureau is also
accused of screwing up an investigation into a scientist who is accused of
stealing secrets from the Los Alamos nuclear research facility.

Attorney-General John Ashcroft is expected to make a statement on the
missing equipment and the issue is sure the crop up when two senior FBI
officials appear before the powerful Senate Judiciary Committee today. ®

[lepton]

especially considering that the administration was flat-out against this idea several months ago.

That was McGraw. After being given a second chance, and failing to reconsider, McGraw didn't make it another month. Did anyone above McGraw ever state an opposition to armed pilots?

[lepton]

especially considering that the administration was flat-out against this idea several months ago.

That was Magaw. After being given a second chance, and failing to reconsider, Magaw didn't make it another month. Did anyone above Magaw ever state an opposition to armed pilots?

[CPOSharky]

"The responsibility of the pilot is to control the aircraft," Magaw said.

It's kinda hard to control an airplane when you are dead. What's the best way to prevent being dead? Especially when it is one smallish door the perp will trying to coming through?

[dsutah]

Uh how is this going to happen with those extreme liberal gun-control minded Democrats at the leadership (not all Democrats)of the Senate going to let it get by? You must be joking, these extremists with King liberal, Daschle, sitting there like a spider? Heck no! You act like you have more faith in these people letting this through, than in our President! If you seriously believe in them letting this through, you need your head examined! Good Grief!!

[dsutah]

Bush is a Socialist? (snicker)Oh come on! If they're at least looking into it again, that's a start, isn't it? I swear, if some of you don't get what you want, right now, you act like toddlers throwing a tantrum. Tell me, would you have gotten them to even look at this, if A. Gore had gotten in, or heaven forbid, Clinton had managed to stay in? I sincerely hope that you'll think long and hard to an answer to that. In other words, fat chance! You might be waiting around for a long time!

[patriciaruth]

Bet my 767 airline Captain friend is in the test program. He already has a concealed carry permit, and he has been active in trying to get the right to be armed. It's personal. He wants a last ditch means to defend himself from someone intent on cutting his throat.

I wrote a couple letter by hand to one of my Senators and to my Congressman in connection with NRA's Operation Secure Blue. Hope all of us together are finally having an effect on policy.