Guns Banned in Britain; Crime Soars

What does this say to the Leftists?

Nothing - they'll just clamor for more laws.

It says a lot. The problem is they are not listening. How else could someone be proven to be on the wrong side of every major issue and never reach the conclusion that they don't know what they're doing?

IT SAYS: TELL MORE LIES, DISTORT THE FACTS, MUZZLE THE WITNESSES AND FOR HEAVEN SAKES DONT LET THEM THINK ABOUT IT LOGICALLY

Criminals prey on the weak and the helpless and the vulnerable. It is the brilliance of the British government to ensure its subjects are all weak and helpless and vulnerable.

Even Dr. Evil couldn't have devised and implemented a more dastardly plan.

Note this earlier post on a the same topic in South Africa.

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FIREARMS LAW LEAVES SA CITIZENS DEFENCELESS AGAINST WORLD'S BIGGEST CRIME WAVE
South African Firearm Forum ^ | Sept 1, 2002

Posted on 09/06/2002 6:46 AM Pacific by robowombat

FIREARMS LAW LEAVES SA CITIZENS DEFENCELESS AGAINST WORLD'S BIGGEST CRIME WAVE The New South African Firearms Control Act - How it Affects citizens From: South African Firearm Forum SAFirearmForum-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Common Questions and Answers If you think you cannot do anything to protect your firearm ownership future, think again, read this and discover what you can do.

How does the Firearm Act impact on all South Africans?

There are aspects of this Act which also affect those who do not own firearms. These include: The right for the Police to search any premises, vehicle or persons without a search warrant. allows the taking of finger prints and DNA samples without charges being laid. If an unlicenced firearm or ammunition is found on your premises, you are presumed guilty and must prove innocence. You do not have the right to silence.

How many firearms will we be allowed to have? Self-defense:- One handgun. Restricted self-defense:- (must prove that a handgun is insufficient) one shotgun not automatic or semi-automatic rifle. Occasional hunter or sports person:- Four in total including any for self-defense. Limited to maximum two handguns and no semi auto rifles or shotguns. Dedicated sports person, hunter or collector:- Not limited provided need is proven.

Will I lose any of my existing firearms? Yes, if you possess firearms in excess of those permitted above these firearms will be declared "excess" and must be disposed of within 60 days.

Is there anything else I will lose? Yes. Certain parts of firearms (frames, slides, receivers, actions) will now be deemed to be firearms and must be licensed. These licences will be included as part of the limits imposed.

Will ammunition be limited? Yes, as well as primers which will now be considered to be ammunition. You may not have more than 200 rounds or 2400 primers per licence in your possession at any time. If you already possess more than this they will be deemed excess. Dedicated hunters or sports person will not be subject to restrictions. Collectors are limited to 200 of any one calibre. What will happen to "excess" firearms and ammunition? They must be disposed of within 60 days of them being declared excess or handed to the State for destruction without compensation. The practicality of this process is questionable as second hand firearms are unlikely to be in demand due to the new legislation.

Is it possible for competitive shooters to owner more firearms? Yes, the shooter must be a registered Dedicated Hunter or Sports Person, in which case no restriction applies. You will have to prove need for each additional license.

How does one become a Dedicated Hunter or Sports Person? You will have to submit a special application to become a registered "dedicated" person. The process and the definition of Dedicated is currently being defined in the regulations, however it will at the least involve proving membership of an Accredited Hunting or Sporting association and proving regular hunting or competitive sports shooting.

Can I share firearms with family members? A firearm licenced for self-defence or occasional hunting or sport may be co-licenced to another person who fulfills the requirements to possess a firearm licence and who resides in the same premises. A firearm may not be lent to another person.

What certification and training is required? All firearm owners will have to be certificated showing competancy in each class of firearm and knowledge of the Firearms Control Act. This certification expires after 5 years and must then be repeated.

Will belonging to a shooting club help me? Only if the club is affiliated to a recognised National body regulated by the ANC authorities. Regulations affecting this are currently being promulgated. You will have be an active member of that club taking part in recognised competitions. The National body will probably be required to keep a register of your shooting activities, proving regular participation.

What is required for transport and storage of firearms? No firearm may be displayed openly. Firearms must be stored in approved safes and shotguns and rifles are to be transported in gun bags. Hand guns are to be concealed.

When can I use a firearm for self protection? In basic terns, a firearm may only be used for the defense of oneself or another person and ONLY in a life threatening situation.

What are the penalties of transgression of the laws? Severe. Some examples are: 10 year jail sentence for not carrying your firearms licence with you. 15 year sentence for failure to report the location of an unlicensed firearm to the SAPS 5 year jail sentence for failure to lock away a firearm in an approved safe.

What costs can I anticipate? The periodic re-licensing of firearms and re-testing of owners for competency are legislated. High licensing fees can be anticipated. Fees for accreditation and training. Regular shooters will be forced to belong to and pay membership fees to a recognised body. SABS approved safes or strong rooms are mandatory. Many additional "hidden" costs are likely to increase firearm and ammunition costs.

If you think you cannot do anything to reverse this process, think again and discover what you can do. Voice your concern or opposition to the Firearm Control Act and stay abreast of happenings. Subscribe to the SA Firearm Forum by sending a blank email to: SAFirearmForum-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

This law has been promulgated by the ANC-majority - in spite of widespread opposition and many petitions opposing it from the entire civilian spectrum of South African society. A (since retired) opposition member of parliament, General Constand Viljoen (the former Chief of Military Staff during the F W de Klerk minority Afrikaner government ) repeatedly warned publicly that this Bill would disarm and make defenceless all honest citizens -- and make the country's huge number of crime syndicates even more powerful. Viljoen also pointed out that the country's police and military forces were so grossly underfunded and demoralised that it now was up to South African citizens themselves to try and defend themselves.

The SA Police statistics () prove it : since the end of the apartheid-era from 1994 up to the present, the country has been facing an unprecedented crime wave, during which close to 200,000 people have already been murdered, the vast majority of them with firearms.

This law -- besides the fact that it infringes upon people's basic human rights -- thus also makes sure that South African citizens will not be allowed to even defend themselves with small handguns against this terrible criminal onslaught. South Africa in fact has the highest crime-related murder rate in the entire world, recent statistics at the Council of Europe have noted.

Interpol has also warned that Nigerian, Colombian, Chinese and Pakistani syndicates have all become highly active in South Africa since the end of apartheid in 1994, and often are aided and abetted by corrupt ANC officials inside the country, including the defence force and police. American crime-fighting specialists at the US Embassy in Pretoria also expressed deep concern that the country faced huge social instability if it failed to control its crime. The American government has increased its funding to train SA police in the US: a group of elite South African police officers of the Scorpions organised crime team recently were trained at the FBI's Quantico base in techniques designed to combat this army of criminal syndicates .

However, the 100,000-strong SA police force (for a population of 42-million legal residents and millions of illegal immigrants) are hugely underfunded and besieged: thus far this year in the important harbour city of Durban alone -- which is increasingly important especially to the Chinese triads operating there -- almost 90 members of the police have already died.

In fact only this week, police officers held commemorative services throughout the country for all their many dead colleagues.. Last year countrywide, at least 180 police officials died in the line of duty -- usually inexperienced young officers, who were lured into traps by criminal gangs and retrieved of their weapons -- while many are also committing suicide or are arrested and jailed for criminal activities themselves. These well-organised criminal gangs have free access to a huge stockpile of illegal, cheap firearms inside South Africa. These not only include at least 5-million illegal weapons such as AK-47s, left over from the armed struggle against colonialism on the African Continent, but also the many still being smuggled in at a huge rate by these international syndicates. Also, the legal firearms belonging to the local population are being deliberately looted: legal handguns are being robbed during practically every robbery and armed attacks against commercial enterprises, and private citizens -- especially against the country's farming community. ()

In a SA parliamentary report last month, the ANC government was warned about the huge influx of illegal immigrants from mainland China and Pakistan across the practically unpatrolled borders of South Africa: with officials at Beit Bridge border crossing post with Zimbabwe/Mozambique warning of thousands of Chinese and Pakistani people being routinely smuggled across the Limpopo river completely unhindered, in fact often helped by a network of fraudulent ANC officials. Report: SAFirearmForum-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; Philosophy; Click to Add Topic
KEYWORDS: ANARCHOTYRANNY; GUN CONFISCATION; SOUTH AFRICA; Click to Add Keyword

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Read the details of a law now on the books in SA that a Prez Hillabat and Rats Dashole and Chuckie would love to bring to the US. Also read about the convergence of ethnic violence and criminal gangs in SA and the vast swarm of non-African illegal immigrants (China and Pakistan) pouring into the country. These latter groups provide manpower for the burgeoning Pak and Chinese criminal gangs. Does this sound like what could happen in the US in say 20 years with our borders still wide open and the Rats in control via vote fraud and swelling the electorate with "new" voters from outside the US. Do you think that there is a possibility of the convergence of ethnic gangs and ethnic racketeering poverty pimpers to make ethnically targeted violence by gangs a sub rosa tolerated activity due to the political clout of the gangsters protectors? I know many Freepers think the rantings of the Aztlan types are ludicrous rather than menacing. However the scenario now being acted out in SA could become the reality of much of the US in a generation if trends are not reversed and we don't control immigration and our frontiers and keep the rats out of the Presidency.

1 posted on 9/6/02 6:46 AM Pacific by robowombat
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To: robowombat

South African Crime Report

2 posted on 9/6/02 7:05 AM Pacific by backhoe
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To: robowombat

Coming soon to a country near you, definitely.

3 posted on 9/6/02 7:36 AM Pacific by Eala
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To: robowombat

bttt

4 posted on 9/6/02 7:38 AM Pacific by junta
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To: robowombat

Unless the decent people of SA want to go the way of Zimbabwe, they better start the fight NOW.

"Still, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than live as slaves."
--Sir Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill (1874-1965),_The Gathering Storm,_bk.I ch.19 p.348 (Houghton Mifflin, 1948)

5 posted on 9/6/02 7:46 AM Pacific by 2banana
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The 1994 arrest of a homeowner for using a toy gun to detain a pair of home invasion burglars;

Irrelevant, as first paragraph states guns were banned in 1997.

Locator bttt^- back ASAP...

They banned handguns in 1997 and as a result someone was arrested in 1994??? Can they do that with election results too?

[The 1994 arrest of a homeowner for using a toy gun to detain a pair of home invasion burglars; ] Irrelevant, as first paragraph states guns were banned in 1997.

This doesn't make that 1994 arrest "irrelevant". It just indicates that Britain didn't become idiotic overnight in 1997, but rather, as part of a longer process, which happened to include a 1994 arrest of a homeowner for using a frickin' toy gun.

Guns Banned in Britain; Crime Soars

To most of us, this headline is about as remarkable as "Sun Sets in West; World Darkens."

The 1994 arrest of a homeowner for using a toy gun to detain a pair of home invasion burglars;

If there were a pair of home invasion burglars at my house, I'd do more than "detain" them. They'll find out what .44 magnum, 240 grain, hollow-points are all about.

Leftists are in denial of reality. Everything about the Socialist creed--egalitarianism, the myth of exploitation, of the environmental determinant of human nature, of the efficacy of collective planning--is premised upon a denial of reality. Thus the obvious will continue to be lost on the Left. Whatever it takes--and by that I am specifically including a resort to the remedy in Magna Carta--the Right needs to recapture Britain. If they do not, Anglo-Saxon civilization will surely die in the mother country.

For rational people, the principle involved is very simple. If you increase the number of armed law abiding, crime fighting, population in relation to the Criminal, you are going to have less crime. If you decrease the ratio of the armed law abiding to the criminal class, you are going to have an increase in crime. It is amazing that people who can grasp simple mathematical principles in other areas of concern, cannot see the obvious here. But that there are millions so brainwashed by the Left that they cannot, is equally obvious.

William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site

"What does this say to the Leftists?"

It proves they are right. It isn't guns that they want banned. Their answer is that the real problem is that one person has so much than another person. That once property is equitably divided, there will be no need for crime and, therefore, no need for weapons. You don't really think these anti-gun nut whackos are really concerned with just guns, do you?

Headline today:

Guns Banned in Britain; Crime Soars

Headline in not-too-distant future:

Islamic Socialist Republic of Britain Executes Last Practicing Christian

Or, "Trailerhome Distroyed by Tornado".

Sorry, I couldn't resist. : )

Aggghah. DEstroyed!

Bad Yankee, Yankee bad.

It is for health and safety. As I remember, you are for that, right? No matter how small the risk, and there is always risk with everything, I thought you were all for leftists deciding what one does with ones property or the people allowed with it, or on it. After all, one death is one too many. Certainly so long as there are guns in private hands there will be gun deaths of innocent people, to include children and wives, LEO's and even workers. Maybe I am mistaken, but as a general argument, I thought you were supportive of government intervention?

It says that the Queen needs to dissolve parliament and rule by decree which she CAN legally do. Deep down the British want it and only royal fiat will hold off the EU from taking over Britain for good.