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ALERT: Hurricane Isidore forecasted to have at least 150 MPH winds within 72 hours

Posted on 09/21/2002 3:05:23 PM PDT by newsperson999

Statement as of 5:00 PM EDT on September 21, 2002

Air Force recon data indicate major Hurricane Isidore has continued to rapidly strengthen and the central pressure has dropped 21 mb in the past 13 hours. A pressure of 946 mb generally corresponds to a maximum wind of about 117 kt. However...the eye is open to the west and there may be a lag in the wind field. Also...dropsonde data indicated about 105 kt surface winds...but winds just a few hundred above the surface have been as high as 130 kt. The three satellite agencies reported a Dvorak satellite intensity estimate of t6.0...or 115 kt...while the 3-hour objective Dvorak T-number was also t6.0. Based on this information...the initial intensity was increased to 110 kt.

The initial motion estimate is 270/3. Recon fix positons since about 12z indicate Isidore has actually remained nearly stationary the past 6 hours...but right over some of the hottest water in the Atlantic Basin. Steering currents remain weak and are forecast by all of the global to remain weak or even get weaker. Isidore remains caught between a mid- to upper-level low east of Florida and one to the west over the Bay of Campeche. A weak and narrow low- to mid-level ridge extends across the northern Gulf of Mexico coast from Florida westward to Texas. Given the relative weakness of this ridge...only 5880 meters at 500 mb...it would not take much of a shortwave trough to erode it and allow Isidore to drift slowly poleward. All of the NHC model guidance...except LBAR...keeps Isidore moving on a slow west or west-southwest track through the forecast period. The AVN and GFDL are very similar in hooking Isidore to the southwest around the western Yucatan Peninsula in 36 to 48 hours. This may be some artifact of terrain interaction which I have ignored for this advisory package since all of the global models show no significant ridging north of isiodre to push the system to southwest. The forecast calls for a slow...less than 6 kt...motion throughout the forecast period with a slight west-northwestward motion after 48 hours as a strong shortwave trough drops down the west side of the broad longwave trough...which is expected to erode the weak ridge over Texas and the northwest Gulf of Mexico and allow Isidore to gain some latitude. However... the slower Isidore moves during the next 36 to 48 hours will determine just how far north and the cyclone will move in the longer time periods beyond 72 hours. The good news is that it appears that Isidore is not going to go anywhere fast. The bad news is that it will remain over very hot water.

The central pressure has dropped 21 mb in the past 13 hours. A typical rapid intensification period. This trend would normally continue for another 12 hours or so...but radar and recon data indicate that the eye is open to the west and that an eyewall replacement cycle may be starting. As such...the official intensity forecast is held below the ships intensity model which brings Isidore to 135 kt in 36 hours and 140 kt in 60 hours. This type of intensification is certainly possible given the low shear...less than 6 kt...and high SSTs...about 30c/86f. However...predicting internal convective changes is nealry impossible so there could be flucuations by as much 10 kt either way from the offical intensity forecast. Some coastal upwelling may weaken the hurricane slightly as it moves west of 88w longitude...but then some restrengtnening is forecast after 48 hours when Isidore is forecast to move back over warmer water.

Forecaster Stewart

forecast positions and Max winds

initial 21/2100z 21.9n 86.2w 110 kts
12hr VT 22/0600z 21.9n 87.0w 120 kts
24hr VT 22/1800z 21.9n 88.0w 125 kts
36hr VT 23/0600z 21.9n 89.2w 125 kts
48hr VT 23/1800z 22.0n 90.3w 125 kts
72hr VT 24/1800z 22.5n 92.5w 130 kts


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To: ovrtaxt
In the loop of that image, the eyewall has gotten much bigger. Also, it has stopped drifting....it is actually moving. It has at least jogged top the northwest; We will have to see if this continues to judge whether that was a jog or sustained motion.
101 posted on 09/21/2002 6:36:09 PM PDT by rwfromkansas
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To: dennis1x
or at least something that HASNT HAPPENED SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME

LOL! Amen.

102 posted on 09/21/2002 6:36:12 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: Dog Gone
Hurricane Isidore Discussion Number 23

Statement as of 5:00 PM EDT on September 21, 2002

 
Air Force recon data indicate major Hurricane Isidore has continued 
to rapidly strengthen and the central pressure has dropped 21 mb in 
the past 13 hours. A pressure of 946 mb generally corresponds to a 
maximum wind of about 117 kt. However...the eye is open to the west 
and there may be a lag in the wind field. Also...dropsonde data 
indicated about 105 kt surface winds...but winds just a few hundred 
above the surface have been as high as 130 kt. The three satellite 
agencies reported a Dvorak satellite intensity estimate of t6.0...or 
115 kt...while the 3-hour objective Dvorak T-number was also t6.0. 
Based on this information...the initial intensity was increased to 
110 kt.

 
The initial motion estimate is 270/3.  Recon fix positons since
about 12z indicate Isidore has actually remained nearly stationary 
the past 6 hours...but right over some of the hottest water in the 
Atlantic Basin. Steering currents remain weak and are forecast by 
all of the global to remain weak or even get weaker. Isidore remains 
caught between a mid- to upper-level low east of Florida and one to 
the west over the Bay of Campeche. A weak and narrow low- to 
mid-level ridge extends across the northern Gulf of Mexico coast 
from Florida westward to Texas. Given the relative weakness of this 
ridge...only 5880 meters at 500 mb...it would not take much of a 
shortwave trough to erode it and allow Isidore to drift slowly 
poleward. All of the NHC model guidance...except LBAR...keeps 
Isidore moving on a slow west or west-southwest track through the 
forecast period. The AVN and GFDL are very similar in hooking 
Isidore to the southwest around the western Yucatan Peninsula in 36 
to 48 hours. This may be some artifact of terrain interaction which 
I have ignored for this advisory package since all of the global 
models show no significant ridging north of isiodre to push the 
system to southwest. The forecast calls for a slow...less than 6 
kt...motion throughout the forecast period with a slight 
west-northwestward motion after 48 hours as a strong shortwave 
trough drops down the west side of the broad longwave trough...which 
is expected to erode the weak ridge over Texas and the northwest 
Gulf of Mexico and allow Isidore to gain some latitude. However... 
the slower Isidore moves during the next 36 to 48 hours will 
determine just how far north and the cyclone will move in the longer 
time periods beyond 72 hours. The good news is that it appears that 
Isidore is not going to go anywhere fast. The bad news is that it 
will remain over very hot water.

 
The central pressure has dropped 21 mb in the past 13 hours. A 
typical rapid intensification period. This trend would normally 
continue for another 12 hours or so...but radar and recon data 
indicate that the eye is open to the west and that an eyewall 
replacement cycle may be starting. As such...the official intensity 
forecast is held below the ships intensity model which brings 
Isidore to 135 kt in 36 hours and 140 kt in 60 hours. This type of 
intensification is certainly possible given the low shear...less 
than 6 kt...and high SSTs...about 30c/86f. However...predicting 
internal convective changes is nealry impossible so there could be 
flucuations by as much 10 kt either way from the offical intensity 
forecast. Some coastal upwelling may weaken the hurricane slightly 
as it moves west of 88w longitude...but then some restrengtnening is 
forecast after 48 hours when Isidore is forecast to move back over 
warmer water.

 
Forecaster Stewart

 
forecast positions and Max winds

 
initial     21/2100z 21.9n  86.2w   110 kts
12hr VT     22/0600z 21.9n  87.0w   120 kts
24hr VT     22/1800z 21.9n  88.0w   125 kts
36hr VT     23/0600z 21.9n  89.2w   125 kts
48hr VT     23/1800z 22.0n  90.3w   125 kts
72hr VT     24/1800z 22.5n  92.5w   130 kts

103 posted on 09/21/2002 6:36:20 PM PDT by glock rocks
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To: Dog Gone
>You really know how to stink up a thread.

The smell of death, am I?

2Co 2:15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

It is best to take up discussions with the Author of the message ("Repent"), not to shoot the messenger.

104 posted on 09/21/2002 6:36:57 PM PDT by 2sheep
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To: newsperson999
a true classic:

hurricane gilbert
winds: 185mph
pressure: 892 mb (incredible)

http://www.tropmet.com/images/hurricane%20gilbert/gilbert_000.jpeg
105 posted on 09/21/2002 6:37:01 PM PDT by dennis1x
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To: glock rocks
Wow, the one that went up through PA stayed a tropical storm for a LONG time.
106 posted on 09/21/2002 6:38:15 PM PDT by rwfromkansas
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To: kinghorse
Great pic! Issy is about the smallest huricane I've seen.
107 posted on 09/21/2002 6:38:17 PM PDT by jpsb
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To: glock rocks
It's
1. moving faster
2. and two is more north than the 5pm forecast..
look at its current position vs. the 24 hour forcasted position
108 posted on 09/21/2002 6:38:26 PM PDT by newsperson999
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To: rwfromkansas
From the track that glock rocks just posted, it looks like it could go in any direction. But I guess the computer models are all pointing west.
109 posted on 09/21/2002 6:40:01 PM PDT by ovrtaxt
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To: newsperson999
you have no argument from me... this beast could go any direction on a whim. prayers for all my gulf friends.
110 posted on 09/21/2002 6:42:10 PM PDT by glock rocks
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To: ovrtaxt
definitely west for the next 3 days.....all are in agreement up to then. then most begin a north curvature.
111 posted on 09/21/2002 6:42:30 PM PDT by dennis1x
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To: ovrtaxt
I note that that track is an older expected track before the jog to the northwest. We will see what they come up with at the NHC at 11 pm eastern. They still could go with that far of a jog to the south, but this sucker would have to start turning southwest almost now to make that forecast accurate.
112 posted on 09/21/2002 6:43:34 PM PDT by rwfromkansas
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To: catfish1957
It has some to do with the size of the storm...and some with the strength. Its false to say that nothing can influence them. Andrew moved west because it had a ridge to its north. It recurved later. Gilbert did not stay on a 290 just because... The meteorology behind it is that the storm was so strong it puts large quantities of air out the top that subsided and warmed. This built the ridge to its north. However, had it been in front of a long wave trof...it would have recurved...like David, Gloria, you name it...they did it. Isadore is not that massive and not that strong yet. Since the steering currents are weak, it may build a slight ridge north of it that could lead to a westward movement. However, if it was clipping along at 14 kts to the WNW, you could bet your house that it would recurve if it was sitting at 33N/72W right now. There is a huge longwave to the west of that position. I don't care if Izzy was a 180KT Cat 5...with TS force winds out 300 NM from the center...it would not miss that trof. Storms do not miss major trofs in their path because they are too massive. They miss trofs because they put out enough air to warm the environment to the north of them and create a ridge. When you are dealing with major trofs...the air transport out in front of the trof is enough to carry the energy away from the storm...and the falling heights ahead of the trof are more than enough to take care of any environmental ridging produced by the storm.

Correction about Gilbert. Those were not major trofs. They were minor. Also...they never materialized. The models of the day kept showing them...but they were what we call minor short waves. They heat tranport from Gilbert warmed the environment enough to the north to create a small thin ridge by which it traveled. Again...David is a perfect example of a very big, strong storm that recurved. If the trof is strong enough and deep enough...you could put SuperTyphoon Tip up next to it and it is recurving.

113 posted on 09/21/2002 6:43:58 PM PDT by NELSON111
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To: dennis1x
Right, while it has jogged a bit to the north, it may be a wnw track.....which means the general forecast will stay the same, expect a bit more to the north.
114 posted on 09/21/2002 6:45:32 PM PDT by rwfromkansas
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To: newsperson999
Shear shouldn't be a problem until the very end...then maybe a little westerly shear. However, I think the dry air from the cold fronts will knock it down some...as it wraps that dry air into the circulation as it moves north.
115 posted on 09/21/2002 6:46:34 PM PDT by NELSON111
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To: NELSON111
also, water temps arent as high in the northern gulf either
116 posted on 09/21/2002 6:48:40 PM PDT by dennis1x
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To: newsperson999
I'm sure the vast majority of folks instinctively know this, but it's good to bear in mind that a 150-mph storm is much worse than twice as severe as a 75-mph storm.

For starters, wind force on a surface, as expressed in pounds per square inch, varies as the square of the difference in wind velocity. So a wall, or a window, or a roof is subjected to four times as much force if the wind speed merely doubles.

And, of course, once structures, trees, and so on begin failing, the problem is hugely increased. A window might be able to withstand a 100-mph wind, but not a branch flung into it at 100 mph. And as more windows, roofs, treees and so on become airborne debris, the problem feeds upon itself.

My guess is that a 150-mph hurricane might cause ten times the damage, or more, of a 75-mph hurricane of similar size and duration. And that's without addressing the storm surge, which is also exponentially worse in stronger storms.

This one could get ugly.

117 posted on 09/21/2002 6:49:05 PM PDT by southernnorthcarolina
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To: SamAdams76
Sorry, you're wrong. A hurricane in Sept or Oct hitting the gulf coast or Fla. is not a rarity. When a big hurricane comes ashore it is pushing a dome of water called the storm surge that can be 20 ft high & have winds of 150mpr or more. Tornadoes are spawned by hurricanes & do a tremoundous amount of damage. Add to that as much as 20" or 30" of rain & you have a real scary weather event.
118 posted on 09/21/2002 6:51:05 PM PDT by Ditter
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To: dennis1x
"at least wait for a hurricane with 300mph winds, or a 10.0 earthquake, or at least something that HASNT HAPPENED SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME before posting end of the world doom bs."

I read an interesting study 2-3 years ago that indicated that category 5 hurricanes were fairly routine until about 1,100 years ago and then they just fell off to what we know today. I expect that data is out on the inter-net if anyone wants to do a search.

119 posted on 09/21/2002 6:51:13 PM PDT by blam
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To: 2sheep
Just out of curiousity, would it have any signficance if I have a dream tonight that you caught leprosy and your typing fingers fell off?
120 posted on 09/21/2002 6:54:42 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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