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ANTI-FLAG
ME

Posted on 09/30/2002 7:44:20 AM PDT by MotleyGirl70

Sunday morning I woke and went to Micky D’s to get my husband a big breakfast and some other kind of breakfast food (I bought myself a large coffee).

As I waited in line behind 100,000,000 other people I looked to my left and saw three boys; I’d say they couldn’t have been older than 16 years old. Description of said white punks listed below:

Boy 1: Frizzed out hair, John Lennon glasses and a jacket that was infested with pins and patches. One of those patches read: “Anti-Flag”. (this set me off)

Boy 2: Blue hair, chubby and he had a top hat on.

Boy 3: Let’s just say my cat craps bigger stool than this little twerp.

So as I was waiting in line I asked Boy 1; “What’s up with that patch, Anti-Flag?”

He said; “It’s a band.”

I said “Are you anti-American?”

The punk said; “Yes”

I said “Why?”

To which he said: “Vietnam, WWI and WWII did us no good. America kills the innocent.”

At this point my blood is boiling and I’m ready to punch this punk in the face and my food order is soon to be picked up.

I said; “I don’t give a shit what you think. When you get a job; and start paying taxes and contribute something to society your opinion doesn’t mean shit. So take your 60’s peace mentality and shove it up your ass. If you three represent the future of America, it scares me, it scares me very much. You want to want to be “anti-American”, go tell your b.s. to a United States veteran who fought for the very freedom you have.” (….I wanted to go on but I had to pick up my order and leave. I got a “nod” from some guy waiting in line in agreement with my confrontation with this kid.)

At that point I picked up my order, they left and I made my exit.

Is this the future of America? Anti-Flag?


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Wisconsin; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: antiamerican
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To: Sir Gawain
(unless you're referring to "conservatives" in Congress specifically).

That was certainly the intent of my post.

201 posted on 09/30/2002 12:21:03 PM PDT by OWK
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To: dubyagee
I'm as free as I was September 10th.

he said, while standing in line for 4 hours at the airport, while some ham-fisted agent of the state does a fully body search of a helpless old grandmother, before she'll be allowed to fly to Indiana.

202 posted on 09/30/2002 12:24:07 PM PDT by OWK
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To: dubyagee
I don't support 'big brother' but I truly know of no other way to protect this nation at this time.

Governments throughout history have used "wars and the threats of wars" to denigrate their citizens rights. Everything is a national emergency of some sort.

Hitler used this particular strategy all the time.

Franklin had it right when he said, (paraphrased) "Those who would give up their liberty for security, deserve and will have, neither".

I will defend rights no matter what, they are the only thing that separates us from a banana republic.

203 posted on 09/30/2002 12:24:48 PM PDT by Protagoras
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To: OWK
And the truth shall set you free.....
204 posted on 09/30/2002 12:25:08 PM PDT by jjm2111
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To: SERE_DOC
Moron,

Ah... yet another powerful rebuttal... whithering in it's intellectual might.

205 posted on 09/30/2002 12:25:38 PM PDT by OWK
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To: OWK
Just attempting to lower to your level of principled comments,

Perhaps you would appreciate

Those who will sacrifice liberty for security.... shall get neither

Moron

206 posted on 09/30/2002 12:51:47 PM PDT by SERE_DOC
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To: OWK; ThomasJefferson
I'm having major troubles here. I had an entire post that disappeared into never-never land.
207 posted on 09/30/2002 12:52:25 PM PDT by dubyagee
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To: SERE_DOC
Just attempting to lower to your level of principled comments,

Yeah... that must be it.

208 posted on 09/30/2002 12:53:15 PM PDT by OWK
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To: dubyagee
I thought I noticed an FR hiccup..
209 posted on 09/30/2002 12:56:30 PM PDT by OWK
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To: dubyagee
I'm having major troubles here. I had an entire post that disappeared into never-never land.

Can't help ya. Good luck.

210 posted on 09/30/2002 12:57:12 PM PDT by Protagoras
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To: OWK
he said, while standing in line for 4 hours at the airport, while some ham-fisted agent of the state does a fully body search of a helpless old grandmother, before she'll be allowed to fly to Indiana.

Should be, she said. ; * )

Again, what is the alternative? We can pick and choose those whom we would search, but then we're accused of profiling, and they're searching for less arab-looking bombers now, anyway. I see the points you guys are making but I'm seeing no alternatives.

211 posted on 09/30/2002 12:57:33 PM PDT by dubyagee
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To: ThomasJefferson
I will defend rights no matter what, they are the only thing that separates us from a banana republic.

I understand your desire to do that and for the most part I would also. But it's possible to be fanatic about anything. There are those who defend their 'right' to blow up the innocent. Their rights must be trampled upon, IMHO.

BTW, was I the only one having problems. Uh oh.

212 posted on 09/30/2002 1:00:33 PM PDT by dubyagee
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To: dubyagee
Again, what is the alternative? We can pick and choose those whom we would search, but then we're accused of profiling, and they're searching for less arab-looking bombers now, anyway. I see the points you guys are making but I'm seeing no alternatives.

The alternative is to allow free men to make their own decisions, and to remove state from the equation.

Let free men carry weapons in their own defense, in accordance with their rights.

Let those who own the airlines decide who will fly, and who will not... let them decide who will be searched, and who will not. Let the market decide... and leave the state out of it.

213 posted on 09/30/2002 1:06:40 PM PDT by OWK
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To: dubyagee
But it's possible to be fanatic about anything.

I'm not a fanatic, and there is nothing fanatical about defending the only thing that stands between them and us.

There are those who defend their 'right' to blow up the innocent.

No such right exists, hence the difference.

BTW, was I the only one having problems. Uh oh.

It seems there was a temporary problem. It seems to have passed.

I must go now. regards

214 posted on 09/30/2002 1:08:45 PM PDT by Protagoras
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To: OWK
Let free men carry weapons in their own defense, in accordance with their rights. Let those who own the airlines decide who will fly, and who will not... let them decide who will be searched, and who will not. Let the market decide... and leave the state out of it.

Wonderful alternatives that would require radical changes in this country. Unfortunately, the radicals would fight them with every inch of their being. We have those within our government who do not have the best interests of this nation at heart. Sure some of them may be Republican, but many more are Democrat.

215 posted on 09/30/2002 1:09:32 PM PDT by dubyagee
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To: ThomasJefferson
I must go now. regards

I enjoyed the civil debate. I must run myself. This 'soccer mom' has a game to attend. ; * )

216 posted on 09/30/2002 1:11:27 PM PDT by dubyagee
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To: dubyagee
Wonderful alternatives that would require radical changes in this country. Unfortunately, the radicals would fight them with every inch of their being. We have those within our government who do not have the best interests of this nation at heart. Sure some of them may be Republican, but many more are Democrat.

All true.

217 posted on 09/30/2002 1:18:52 PM PDT by OWK
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To: OWK
The question really isn't your patriotism, but you're attack on MG for her defense of patriotism to a adolescent twit.

And thanks for the English/Spelling lesson. Attacking the opponent and not their argument is also a boilerplate of the left. You keep trying to stray away from the original point. What the hell is wrong with MG telling this punk to stuff his 60's piece BS?

218 posted on 09/30/2002 1:28:45 PM PDT by Dead Dog
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To: OWK
Knew we'd agree on something. See ya. ; * )
219 posted on 09/30/2002 1:33:16 PM PDT by dubyagee
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To: Dead Dog
but you're attack on MG for her defense of patriotism to a adolescent twit.

MG did not defend patriotism to anyone.

She barfed out a mindless emotional outburst, with no more value than the utter silliness represented by the adolescent twit.

Then she came here and told everyone so she could get a little group-think fix...

220 posted on 09/30/2002 1:33:22 PM PDT by OWK
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To: Dead Dog
You keep trying to stray away from the original point. What the hell is wrong with MG telling this punk to stuff his 60's piece BS?

In this case, it boils down to a simple matter of good manners. The original poster took it upon herself to begin a confrontation, and came off like a total ass, first by using leading questions, then by apparantly teeing off on the kids without being provoked.

So they gave historically ignorant replies. So what? Sounds like the pissant was looking for a fight to begin with.

221 posted on 09/30/2002 1:34:06 PM PDT by Pahuanui
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To: dubyagee
We probably agree on far more than not, when you strip off all the labels, and start talking about the underlying philosophy.

Regards.

222 posted on 09/30/2002 1:34:22 PM PDT by OWK
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To: Pahuanui
2002-09-19

Welcome to the Free Repunlic!

And yet you're saying that anyone who prefers an attitude of peace is an unwitting communist dupe of the KGB.

Anyone who believes the 1960's peace movements was about peace, or that the Greens are about the environment, is a unwitting communist dupe of the KGB.

Please explain what an "attitude of peace" is. I personally I am all for universal harmony with a populist backbeat a guy can dance to.

223 posted on 09/30/2002 1:37:46 PM PDT by Dead Dog
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To: Dead Dog
speaking of an "attitude of peace", the band anti-flag made the mistake of touring with the dropkick murphys, a band with working-class patriotic views as well as a large skinhead following.
there was nothing peaceful about the show i attended, as the members of antiflag can attest to.
they made it through about three songs...
224 posted on 09/30/2002 1:43:31 PM PDT by cooperj
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To: Pahuanui
Actually, the little ingrate decided to put a cool, rebellious, anti-American, Anti-social patch on his jacket to pi$$ people off. He has know idea what he is standing up for, and she did the right thing and let him know. I don't see how she overreacted to 9-11 by this, this should have been her reaction with or without 9-11.

She did not start the confrontation, the kid did. The kid has his freedom of speech, he used it, and she has the right to answer back. Her profanity is, IMO, appropriate to the emotions the kid did need to hear. We in the right, have been far too silent for too long, and if 9-11 has changed this then so be it. The 9-11 event should never have been necessary for motivation.

225 posted on 09/30/2002 1:45:31 PM PDT by Dead Dog
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To: cooperj
As Cartman would say "Sweet!"
226 posted on 09/30/2002 1:46:15 PM PDT by Dead Dog
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To: Dead Dog
2002-09-19 Welcome to the Free Repunlic!

Ah yes... the registration date challenge.

The last refuge of an FR dullard.

227 posted on 09/30/2002 1:50:36 PM PDT by OWK
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To: OWK
"free men" can also blow holes in heads of people just because they want to.
228 posted on 09/30/2002 1:53:15 PM PDT by MEGoody
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To: MEGoody
Uhhhh.... OK.
229 posted on 09/30/2002 1:54:44 PM PDT by OWK
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To: ThomasJefferson
I'm curious - which of your constitutional rights have been suspended? I'm not at all clear on what you are getting at.
230 posted on 09/30/2002 1:55:34 PM PDT by MEGoody
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To: Dead Dog
Actually, the little ingrate decided to put a cool, rebellious, anti-American, Anti-social patch on his jacket to pi$$ people off.

Obviously not, based on the original poster having to inquire what the patch was. It wasn't an invitation; she took it upon herself to find out.

He has know idea what he is standing up for, and she did the right thing and let him know. I don't see how she overreacted to 9-11 by this, this should have been her reaction with or without 9-11.

It has nothing to do w/911, it has everything to do with her histrionics over a non-issue in an inappropriate venue.

She did not start the confrontation, the kid did.

Ted Bundy didn't murder all those women, porn did! He even said so!

The kid has his freedom of speech, he used it, and she has the right to answer back. Her profanity is, IMO, appropriate to the emotions the kid did need to hear.

Again, she came off like a pissy-pants brat, much like she describes the kids. She was on an attitude crusade.

We in the right, have been far too silent for too long, and if 9-11 has changed this then so be it. The 9-11 event should never have been necessary for motivation.

911 is now a turning point in our history. It does not, however, constitute a license to act like an asshole to strangers in public establishments, nor did it before 911.

Some of us believe in manners as well as the Consitution, and it is likely (although I think this entire account is a complete fabrication) that in other circumstances she might have had to have eaten her McMeal with broken teeth.

231 posted on 09/30/2002 1:55:40 PM PDT by Pahuanui
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To: tpaine
I agree, this is a critical time for eternal vigilance. However, I see more leftist obstructionism by the DNC than I do wanton power grabbing by the right. We are at war, and IMO, our enemy is out to destroy us.

I also fall in behind of what MG did, punk @$$ kids will remain punks until they are challenged. The kid wanted to make a statement and she gave him valuable feedback. She probably is the best thing that happened to him all day. At least she paid more attention to him then his parents have.

232 posted on 09/30/2002 1:56:21 PM PDT by Dead Dog
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To: Dead Dog
dang straight man, I'm so tired of having people bash my country, and then have a bunch of self-proclaimed freedom seekers tell me it's wrong for me to be mad at them. It's unbelievable. Actually what's unbelievable is that someone would actually stand up for them.

And no, I'm not for some speach law making it illegal to bash on the United States. But all you making excuses for these kids I ask you one question. In your heart of hearts, and the depths of your soul, how do you feel when some waco burns the American flag, or gets on national television and tells us how terrible we are. If seeing/hearing about these things doesn't make your blood absolutely boil, why then we're definately not on the same page. And I'd bet your not on the same page as Thomas Jefferson (the REAL one) either. Just my 2 cents (after taxes).
233 posted on 09/30/2002 1:58:22 PM PDT by walkingdead
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To: ThomasJefferson
"There are those who defend their 'right' to blow up the innocent. No such right exists, hence the difference."

Who says no such right exists?

234 posted on 09/30/2002 1:59:53 PM PDT by MEGoody
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To: OWK
OWK: From a state full of Leftists. Like other brave Americans from the Left and the Right, you wore the uniform in defense of our country. But it's the Left that turns its back on the military the minute the shooting stops. It's the Left that pulls the funding from the military to spend on addictive social engineering programs and even tries to social engineer that same military you served in so bravely.
235 posted on 09/30/2002 2:00:39 PM PDT by Consort
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To: OWK
I'm sure are aware this kind of thing happens on occasion - the man who owns the gun legally decides to turn on someone he's ticked off at. Your response sounds as though you've never heard of such a thing.
236 posted on 09/30/2002 2:04:23 PM PDT by MEGoody
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To: walkingdead
But all you making excuses for these kids I ask you one question. In your heart of hearts, and the depths of your soul, how do you feel when some waco burns the American flag, or gets on national television and tells us how terrible we are.

As an adult and a vet, I see people, regardless of intelligence, exercising their right to free speech. Histrionic emotional reactions have no place in either understanding or protecting the Constitution. Getting angry at someone else's opinion is not logical.

If seeing/hearing about these things doesn't make your blood absolutely boil, why then we're definately not on the same page.

I know what I fought and served for, and it wasn't the flag, but rather what it stands for. Here's a little quote from Mark Twain that ought to clear things right up:

"You see my kind of loyalty was loyalty to one's country, not to its to its institutions or its office-holders. The country is the real thing, the substantial thing, the eternal thing; it is the thing to watch over, and care for, and be loyal to; institutions are extraneous, they are its mere clothing, and clothing can wear out, become ragged, cease to be comfortable, cease to protect the body from winter, disease, and death. To be loyal to rags, to shout for rags, to worship rags, to die for rags -- that is a loyalty of unreason, it is pure animal; it belongs to monarchy, was invented by monarchy; let monarchy keep it."

237 posted on 09/30/2002 2:05:04 PM PDT by Pahuanui
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To: Pahuanui
"she might have had to have eaten her McMeal with broken teeth."

I'll tell you what stud. If ever, and I mean ever, I see any man punch a lady in the mouth, I'll send him to the hospital personally.

Now, about this youngster not bringing it on himself. We've all found out that this "anti-flag" is a band right? So when the lady asked him about it, why didn't he just say it was a band? Why did he have to go off about Americans being wrong on WWI, WWII, Vietnam, ect.? Don't you think he provoked a rebuttal with his answer alone?

Now, whether she should have cussed or not is of her own accord. I probably would have, but that's just me. Freedom of speech goes beyond being able to bash this great nation. It allows cussing too.
238 posted on 09/30/2002 2:06:32 PM PDT by walkingdead
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To: MEGoody
- the man who owns the gun legally decides to turn on someone he's ticked off at.

And so.....??

239 posted on 09/30/2002 2:07:41 PM PDT by OWK
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To: Pahuanui
Nice quote, but wasn't it Reagan who said (and I'm going from memory so stick with me) that this country is and always will be based on values. Policies, and politics come and go with the wind, but values, base line values always stay the same.

And as far as I'm concerned, the one piece of cloth that symbolizes our countries values is the American flag. So yes, when someone burns it, I don't see a great appreciation of freedom, I see it as saying that the American values are crap. And I don't like it one bit.
240 posted on 09/30/2002 2:12:57 PM PDT by walkingdead
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To: OWK; Dead Dog
MG did not defend patriotism to anyone.

She barfed out a mindless emotional outburst, with no more value than the utter silliness represented by the adolescent twit.

Then she came here and told everyone so she could get a little group-think fix...

Hey, if you are going to attack me address me directly. You have turned this thread into nothing more than OWK rant fest.

Why don’t you just go away and start your own rant thread.

FR is place where conservatives “voice” their opinions. You can say what you want but I resent the fact you attack me personally for having the guts to finally question ONE of these little commies. If you don’t like my questioning this punk’s patriotism I really don’t care.

She barfed out a mindless emotional outburst

Sounds more like your describing yourself.

As I stated before, must be a slow day at D.U.

241 posted on 09/30/2002 2:17:05 PM PDT by MotleyGirl70
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To: OWK; All
PLAY THIS REAL LOUD!

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/3694/nervousbreakdown.mp3
242 posted on 09/30/2002 2:17:25 PM PDT by Dakmar
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To: walkingdead
So when the lady asked him about it, why didn't he just say it was a band?

He did. From original post:

So as I was waiting in line I asked Boy 1; “What’s up with that patch, Anti-Flag?”

He said; “It’s a band.”


243 posted on 09/30/2002 2:18:31 PM PDT by MadameAxe
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To: walkingdead
What you are seeing is the self-righteousness of the Libertarian Party. They are basically Republican's who lack the social skills to actually get elected. Instead of working for change and steering the political debate in this country from within the R party, were their influence is desperately needed, they're too busy getting high on sour grapes.

I know a guy who ran as Libertarian for Congress in Texas, he was counseled by the national office to attack the Republicans, not for ideological reasons, but only for the political expediency of splitting off votes. They really are more dangerous than the left since they serve only to split votes, and keep the leftist majority in office. They have a home in the (R) party, but quite frankly, I think they are afraid of the competition. So they take their ball and go home.

Thank God for Nader and the Greens, they've really balanced the negatives for us.

Notice these guys are more offended by MG challenging this kids social statements, which are a pure product of leftist indoctrination, then by the kid claiming American servicemen are blood thirsty killers. Then, they dance around basking in their own glory. They are a similar mindset of the 60's left, just 180 degs out of phase. At least they have good philosophical points.<p.How's my speling?

244 posted on 09/30/2002 2:19:46 PM PDT by Dead Dog
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To: walkingdead
I'll tell you what stud. If ever, and I mean ever, I see any man punch a lady in the mouth, I'll send him to the hospital personally.

I was alluding to possible circumstances wherein if the people she had said that to were different, the outcome might have been also. Of course, I also think the whole thing was made up, as I said.

Now, about this youngster not bringing it on himself. We've all found out that this "anti-flag" is a band right?

No, 'we' hadn't. She had to inquire, remember?

So when the lady asked him about it, why didn't he just say it was a band?

Re-read the post: that's all he said.

Why did he have to go off about Americans being wrong on WWI, WWII, Vietnam, ect.?

She asked him.

Don't you think he provoked a rebuttal with his answer alone?

She was the one who initiated the conversation, not he.

Now, whether she should have cussed or not is of her own accord. I probably would have, but that's just me. Freedom of speech goes beyond being able to bash this great nation. It allows cussing too.

Hell yes it does.

245 posted on 09/30/2002 2:20:37 PM PDT by Pahuanui
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To: Pahuanui; OWK; ThomasJefferson
Bottom line, here's how I see it. Your all right in that our government has gotten way to big and out of control, I don't think you'll find anyone right-of-center that will not agree with you. Second, these punks had every right to wear their patches, and bash on the states. But if you assume that one, then you have to accept the right of this lady to do what she did, bottom line.

Oh, and my love of this country comes not from a love of a political branch, or of any one person, it comes from the cherished history behind our great country, and the potentional it has to make the world a great place.
246 posted on 09/30/2002 2:20:49 PM PDT by walkingdead
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To: MadameAxe
oops, missed that one. Hard to read when your seeing red.... thanks for the correction.
247 posted on 09/30/2002 2:22:01 PM PDT by walkingdead
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To: OWK
"And so.....??"

Just wanted to put a little cold water on all that romanticizing of guns that was going on. I'm all for gun rights, but the reality is, those rights open up yet other avenues for depriving someone else of their own rights.

248 posted on 09/30/2002 2:24:02 PM PDT by MEGoody
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To: Pahuanui; Dead Dog
Again, she came off like a pissy-pants brat, much like she describes the kids. She was on an attitude crusade.

Pissy-pants brat, huh. Again, she came off like a pissy-pants brat, much like she describes the kids. She was on an attitude crusade.

You are the one with the attitude crusade.

I’m one the “good guys”. I come off pissy because I told one these little ungrateful, anti-American punks off. More people on this thread support my view than you. So if that makes me a pissy-pants brat, so be it. I’m proud to be an American, unlike those three kids.

In addition you honesty think that had I been wearing a swastika on my jean jacket that people wouldn’t confront me? Think about it before you spew anymore of your attitude.

249 posted on 09/30/2002 2:25:36 PM PDT by MotleyGirl70
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To: Dead Dog
What you are seeing is the self-righteousness of the Libertarian Party. They are basically Republican's who lack the social skills to actually get elected.

What you are seeing here is jaw-dropping pig ignorance the Libertarian Party, the Republican Party and the nature of US elections.

Wow. I am impressed.

250 posted on 09/30/2002 2:25:42 PM PDT by Pahuanui
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