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Restaurateurs Should Decide Smoking Issue
Newsday ^ | October 9, 2002 | Robert A. Levy

Posted on 10/09/2002 4:05:52 PM PDT by Max McGarrity

City Council meets tomorrow to determine whether or not NYC follows Kookiefornia into the Twilight Zone of political correctness. They'll decide on Mayor Michael Bloomberg's plan to ban smoking in all restaurants and bars, including Philip Morris corporate headquarters. Levy, a Constitutional scholar, is right on the mark when he says: "For now, smokers and nonsmokers have been debating which group's rights should trump. Actually, both groups miss the point."

We here at FR know this and have been over and over it with so-called conservatives who don't know the difference between "private property" and "public."

Levy continues:"So does Bloomberg, businessman extraordinaire, whose proposal proves that he hasn't the foggiest notion of what private property is about. Smokers have no right to light up in my restaurant. Nor do nonsmokers have a right to prevent smokers from lighting up in my restaurant."

For any of those here still in doubt about the definition of "private property," this is a good article to read.

One final comment from Levy: "...venom has replaced respect and obstinate behavior has replaced common courtesy. It is government, not secondhand smoke, that has poisoned the atmosphere."

Robert A. Levy is senior fellow in Constitutional studies at the Cato Institute

This isn't about smoking, it's about freedom.

(Excerpt) Read more at newsday.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; US: New York
KEYWORDS: antismokers; bans; butts; constitution; privateproperty; pufflist; rights; smoking; tobacco
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1 posted on 10/09/2002 4:05:52 PM PDT by Max McGarrity
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To: *puff_list; SheLion; Just another Joe; Gabz
PING!!
2 posted on 10/09/2002 4:07:30 PM PDT by Max McGarrity
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To: Max McGarrity
This isn't about smoking, it's about freedom.

No it isn't.

It's about population density, because the more people you jam into an area, the less freedom everyone has.

"In 1997, the Nassau-Suffolk metropolitan area was the sixteenth most populated metropolitan area in the nation. The region [Nassau-Suffolk] also has a larger population than 19 U.S. states."

The more people you pack into an area, the more they step on each other's toes, and the more government you need to abitrate their differences, and the more you will be taxed to pay for bloated government.

Fortunately, all you have to do is get government to reduce immigration to a trickle--and America's population growth would stablize at replacement levels.

And then your children will continue to enjoy the same freedoms you enjoy.

3 posted on 10/09/2002 4:26:02 PM PDT by Age of Reason
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To: Age of Reason
"The more people you pack into an area, the more they step on each other's toes, and the more government you need to abitrate their differences, and the more you will be taxed to pay for bloated government."

I disagree. I like what someone said on another thread about this problem:

"But nosy, intrusive government has exacerbated the problem. As a result, venom has replaced respect and obstinate behavior has replaced common courtesy. It is government, not secondhand smoke, that has poisoned the atmosphere."

4 posted on 10/09/2002 4:45:08 PM PDT by Bob Mc
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To: Bob Mc
But nosy, intrusive government has exacerbated the problem. As a result, venom has replaced respect and obstinate behavior has replaced common courtesy. It is government, not secondhand smoke, that has poisoned the atmosphere."

If there were just me and you in an area the size of California, how big a government would we have? How big a government would we need?

Now start adding more and more people to our little world and watch government grow and laws multiply.

5 posted on 10/09/2002 4:57:29 PM PDT by Age of Reason
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To: Age of Reason
I don't disagree that many problems are exacerbated by packing the "rats" too tightly, but that doesn't explain this because that area is only the latest. The anti-smoker cabal has gained power, money and momentum and drive this desire to control all aspects of our lives, trampling as they go. Every freedom lost for anyone is a freedom lost for everyone.
6 posted on 10/09/2002 4:58:22 PM PDT by Max McGarrity
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To: Bob Mc
And if it were just me and you in an area the size of California, who would miss the chance to vote?

As population growth approaches infinity, the power of your vote approaches zero.

Is it any wonder that so many Americans have given up caring about politics and voting?

7 posted on 10/09/2002 5:00:52 PM PDT by Age of Reason
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To: Max McGarrity
Dittoes. What you said.
8 posted on 10/09/2002 5:02:04 PM PDT by MonroeDNA
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To: Age of Reason
It's about population density, because the more people you jam into an area, the less freedom everyone has.

You may have a point there, but please remember that correlations do not necessarily reflect cause and effect relationships. America had densely populated areas long before smoking was banned from private establishments. I think the primary issue here is a gradual loss of property rights resulting from a general weakening of the value of individuals. This devaluing of individualism has in turn been caused by the rejection of Protestant ideals (no offense to Catholics) and the ascendancy of a mechanistic view of human nature within academia and the urban population of this nation.
9 posted on 10/09/2002 5:04:40 PM PDT by Hemlock
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To: Max McGarrity
The anti-smoker cabal has gained power, money and momentum

in proportion to population growth.

10 posted on 10/09/2002 5:09:18 PM PDT by Age of Reason
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To: Age of Reason
This is not an immigration issue. It is a private business owner's issue. Period. This is an area the Government has no right whatsoever crossing into.
11 posted on 10/09/2002 5:12:50 PM PDT by riley1992
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To: Hemlock
America had densely populated areas long before smoking was banned

In the old days, the majority of Americans lived rural lifestyles and defined what was normal in America.

Now neurotic urban-dwellers outnumber rural citizens and out-vote them.

Urbanites and their weird artificial existence increasingly dictate to America what is "normal."

12 posted on 10/09/2002 5:18:20 PM PDT by Age of Reason
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13 posted on 10/09/2002 5:30:04 PM PDT by Anti-Bubba182
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To: riley1992
This is not an immigration issue.

It's a population density issue.

It becomes an immigration issue because all of America's population growth comes from immigrants and their children.

It is a private business owner's issue. Period. This is an area the Government has no right

Like I been saying, you want freedom to do whatever you will, you'll need your own private country with a population of one.

Then you can make up your own business rules.

You want less freedom? Add some people and share your country.

You want even less freedom? Then add even more people.

At some point, the crowding outweighs the benefits of companionship.

It's not the trees and rocks that tell you not to smoke.

14 posted on 10/09/2002 5:32:10 PM PDT by Age of Reason
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: Age of Reason
Like I been saying, you want freedom to do whatever you will, you'll need your own private country with a population of one.

No one is saying, "Freedom to do whatever you will." However, please point to me in the Constitution where the Government is given the right to tell a private business owner whether or not he can allow a legal substance on his property.

16 posted on 10/09/2002 5:36:52 PM PDT by riley1992
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To: riley1992
However, please point to me in the Constitution where the Government is given the right to tell a private business owner whether or not he can allow a legal substance on his property.

Doesn't matter.

It's paper.

If the others can't read English, what good will it do you?

17 posted on 10/09/2002 5:39:48 PM PDT by Age of Reason
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To: riley1992
"Freedom to do whatever you will."

Then how much freedom is too much freedom?

How much freedom is too little?

How much freedom are you used to?

How much freedom, how little freedom, are others used to?

18 posted on 10/09/2002 5:44:58 PM PDT by Age of Reason
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To: Age of Reason
Christ, you can't be serious. Is immigration your only issue? It damn well does matter.
19 posted on 10/09/2002 5:45:32 PM PDT by riley1992
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To: Age of Reason
"If there were just me and you in an area the size of California, how big a government would we have? How big a government would we need? Now start adding more and more people to our little world and watch government grow and laws multiply."

I don't disagree that in America government does grow as population does. But I don't agree it is "needed" as you say. Rules of conduct and procedures for a crowded community can be resolved by mutually agreed contracts between people, property owners, and groups.

Our biggest problem today in America is most people think ONLY government can solve problems, when in fact government solutions mostly just exacerbate or create more problems.

Government needs to get back to its constitutional limits, protecting our rights, and providing for the national defense, and leave private citizens to work out their social problems.

20 posted on 10/09/2002 6:31:09 PM PDT by Bob Mc
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