I THINK THE SNIPERS ARE AL QAEDA

Various Cable Networks ^ | 11 October 2002 | Myself

[LSUfan]

I'm watching this sniper coverage on the cable networks and everyone is so sure that this is a nut of some sort: a gun nut, a military nut, a serial killer, etc.

But we have evidence to indicate that there is more than one. Two nuts? The President of the Marine Scout Sniper Assoc was just on MSNBC and said that he is sure that the shooter isn't alone because he doubts that anyone could stalk, lay-up, take the shot, egress and just drive off in his minivan.

So now they have all the wonderful psychological profilers on...including some 300 lb private detective...and they are all talking about this like these guys are deranged or disturbed. They all refer to "spree" killers and "serial" killers.

Excuse me, but I'd like to see the list of serial killing TEAMS in American history! And I'd like to learn more about the spree killers who take 10 shots, get 10 kills, including one within 50 yards of a state trooper in plain sight and then vanish without a trace.

These guys have training, motivation, and resources and they are operating as a team. The fact that they shot with the cop right there tells me they were totally confident. I believe they plan these like operations, script them, rehearse them, conduct recons and then execute them LIKE OPERATIONS.

Who does that sound like to you?

Why isn't the media even thinking about the Islamic terrorism angle?

Also: this sniper was taking a big chance with daylight attacks in an urban environment, including one with a cop in plain sight. That (to me) implies that he has area security and avenues of egress and methods of egress covered. That's a lot easier to do in a daylight urban scenario if you have a team, as opposed to a lone gunman.

The fact that these attacks occurred just as the tanker was blown up in Yemen also makes me suspicious. Not to mention the 1 year anniversary of Enduring Freedom.

Just talked to a close friend who is with a DC think tank and is also a retired Col. of Marines. He is tuned in to law enforcement in the DC area as well as he is also a director of a company that sells computer equipment designed for tactical and security use. He has personal and professional contacts with law enforcement in the DC area. Also, his wife was two blocks away from one of the shootings when it happened, and in fact when he heard that a woman in her 30s had been killed in that particular spot while vacuuming her vehicle, he was extremely worried, because that fit her description. He couldn't reach her by phone for a good 15 minutes.

In general: it should be remembered that the month of October was the month in which Sheikh Omar Abdel al-Rahman, OBL's favorite mullah, and a top OBL lieutenant, Ayman al-Zawahiri, were convicted in connection with the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. Also, October was the month in which we started our assault on the Taliban and al Qaeda in Afghanistan.

These aren't some bad militia boys who got into some bad moonshine...these guys aren't shooting up the countryside. They're likely conducting recon, setting up their shots and bugging out to live to do it again. My friend tells me that terrorism is definitely on everyone's lips and minds and that the Feds have involved in this out the ying yang from the get go...BATF, FBI...even Secret Service because of the proximity to DC.

My buddy points out that Al Qaeda said specifically that it would target schools, so this might be the start of something.

GET THIS:

Two of the shots were HEAD SHOTS at a moving target at 150 meters. While a tourso shot at 150 meters is not a terribly hard shot for someone with training, a HEAD SHOT at 150 meters on a moving target would be a virtually impossible shot for a nut with no training. Next time you go to the gun show, take a look at the guy to your left and the guy to your right. Chances are, unless they grew up hunting or were in the military, you'd be pretty safe if they took a shot at you at 150yds while you were moving. Hint: Marines qualify out to the 500 yard line with the M16A2. That is what training will do. I qualified expert and am still an avid shooter today. I shoot a heavy barrel AR15A2 in 5.56mm and a National Match M1A in 7.62 NATO. I am NOT at all confident that I could get a head shot on a moving target at 150 meters. In fact...I would not even try. I would shoot center of mass. What all this indicates is a very highly trained shooter with good gear and most likely a spotter.

And GET THIS as well:

My buddy tells me that the FBI al Qaeda profilers have been predicting some sort of random attack as a contrast to 9-11. Something that sends the message: "no one anywhere is safe from us." al Qaeda has specifically said that they have the right to kill hundreds of thousands of "American children." This fits in with the critique of the al Qaeda training video that came out not long ago.

Here is another coincidence (?): In his Oct 4th column, Bill Gertz of the Washington Times said: "U.S. intelligence agencies received reports this week indicating Islamic terrorists have targeted American schools for attack, intelligence officials said. The reports indicate that the targeting includes plans to attack all levels of educational institutions in the United States, ranging from elementary schools to colleges and universities, said officials familiar with the reports." One of the victims was a 13 year old schoolboy.

Now REALLY GET THIS:

In the public release, law enforecemnt has not mentioned any race or ethnicity of the perps. But the unclassified bulletin that is being circulated by the Feds describes says that one of the local deputies got a description of two "Hispanics" but the feds think the guy just profiled them as Hispanics from law enforcement experience and that the two could easily be Middle Eastern. My buddy did not know if the deputy saw the perps himself or took a description from witnesses. The original vehicle was described as a white delivery van and today the suspect vehicle was a white Chevy Astro Van (but if these guys are pros like everyone thinks, neither vehicle will be showing up again).

A few more interesting insights from my friend:

The killer (or killers) must have felt secure in his surroundings. Most of the killings happened on or near busy main avenues during rush hour.

To say nothing of the fact that the region is crawling with law enforcement of every kind, being so close to the nation's capital.

Obviously it's someone who has murdered before or has been trained and conditioned to kill people. My buddy doubts many first-time killers, to say nothing of social outcasts or sickos, would have the nerve to kill with a single shot, then drive to another location within a half-hour, then kill again with another single shot.

Notably, all the areas of the killings are highly integrated racially. Had the killings been two miles west or south, they would have been in practically all-white or all-black neighborhoods, respectively, so a non-white/non-black killer (i.e., Middle Eastern) would not have been noticed in the areas in question.

Finally, the coincidental timing of these two incidents is another reason to suspect al Qaeda terrorism. Blow up a ship at the same time they're plinking away at innocent civilians...

If they haven't already done so, the cops and Feds need to bring in some guys from the Scout-Sniper School in Quantico to analyze this thing. Most law enforcement snipers don't think like the guys who did these horrible acts. And street cops certainly do not. The best way to get a sniper is with another sniper. The Marine snipers are the best in the world.

[joyful1]

Me too. I have a sick feeling that sleeper cells will be "waking up" throughout the country. Why didn't the Japanese terror cells terrorize us during WWII?? Did internment camps actually save us from this during WWII??

[swarthyguy]

True story is even stranger. An American lady who went back to Russia to bring her parents back to the US gets caught up in the whole mess.

[BunnySlippers]

Excuse me, but I'd like to see the list of serial killing TEAMS in American history!

Just off the top of my head: Leopold and Loeb (only killed one though) and the Hillside Strangler was a team of two who killed many. The Homolka (sp) husband/wife killing team.

There are so many deranged people out there that sadly this kind of thing doesn't seem that unusual. All you need are a couple of punks. They'll screw up soon and we'll catch them.

[section9]

I like your idea of getting some military snipers to bring down these guys (or guy). That does sound like a very sensible solution. However, I don't think that is going to happen.

A couple of things:

1. This guy (or guys) will be bagged by sheer chance. Snipers are trained to be patient people. That's where tracking comes in. Every bit of evidence would have to be provided to the snipers to assist in setting up their firing locations. Good tracking and hunting will help, but in the end, some Marine will have to get real lucky.

2. The sniper, or snipers, has to make a mistake sometime. That's when we'll bag them.

Finally, I cannot emphasize enough that I believe this individual to be a professional or a group of professionals. LEO's do not faze him or them. Only when he or they know they are being hunted will they start to trip up.

Right now, he or they are laughing at the LEO's.

Be Seeing You,

Chris

[johnb838]

Maybe they don't have unlimited resources... Maybe this was the only AQSWAT team ready to get up and running.

Presuming it is not Al Queda because they don't use the tactics you think they ought to is moronic. (Not you, the poster you replied to).

[Bush2000]

It takes a sniper to kill a sniper. It's time for the President to covertly deploy our boys.

That sounds like a great way to get our boys killed, if the state or local police engage our boys in a tragic misunderstanding.

[shattered]

I thought one of the female victims (not sure if she was killed) was from India.

[Dave S]

Why didn't the Japanese terror cells terrorize us during WWII?? Did internment camps actually save us from this during WWII??

No, there were no Japanese terror cells. All the fighting age Japanese Americans enlisted and were fighting the Nazi's in Europe and Africa. All the internment camps did was enrich the politicians that took the internees homes and property without cause and without restitution.

[aristeides]

I say deploy the National Guard to augement the local police departments.

Stationing them at gas stations and schools would seem to me to make a lot of sense.

[BunnySlippers]

The phrasing of the note on the tarot card "Mr. Policeman".

Do you know how many notes/letters were supposedly sent by Jack the Ripper during the search for him? Most, if not all, were hoaxes.

The idea of this being al Queda is a nice story. But I'd include in with a boat load of other theories.

[Bush2000]

The real problem here for the police is that the targets seem to be all over the grid. They don't know where this/these bastard(s) is/are going to strike again. But, if there is a positive that can come out of his/their striking repeatedly, it is that patterns of behavior emerge that will make it easier to plan his/their next move.

[Bush2000]

Stationing them at gas stations and schools would seem to me to make a lot of sense.

Huh? Should they be wearing targets on their vests?

[aristeides]

Victim from India was a male cab driver. He was very dark-skinned, and the police initially thought he was black, so that was what was reported by the media. You'd think Moslem terrorists would be reluctant to shoot a cab driver in the D.C. area, where so many of the cab drivers are Moslem. But I suspect the dark skin is what allowed them to. They too thought he was a black American.

[shattered]

I hadn't heard much about teams of serial killers either but on FOX today, one of the experts said that 25% of them work in teams.

Also, wasn't it reported that one of the persons in the van was a female?

[johnb838]

You make THAT presumption because historically this has been what we've faced here. But as the mutual funds commercials will tell you, historical results are not predictors of future performance.

One thing that HAS been predictive of AQ (and Zawahiri in particular) has been a willingness and ability to switch tactics, always hitting us with something fresh. Remember how fresh it felt when they hit the Cole? Then 9-11. Then Anthrax. Now this.

And to the moron who claims they are really bad shots because they haven't achieved 1 kill/shot, I think you need to rethink your position. 11 shots/11 hits/11 escapes is not mediocre performance. Perhaps you're right that a Marine sniper would do better, well lets be thankful that's not what we're facing. But the victimsa are just as dead.

[DBtoo]

I noticed something like that too. While living in Amsterdam, I observed that most of the patrons in the Red Light district (I had to walk through there to do my daily shopping) were young, muslim guys. (Amsterdam now has a minority population of Arabs and Turks.)

[Dave S]

Stationing them at gas stations and schools would seem to me to make a lot of sense

Stationing national guardsmen at gas stations? What are you doing, offering the perps some more stationary targets? You need snipers out in the parks away from the gas stations, not standing at the pumps as targets.

[swarthyguy]

Yes they did. Mil-Intel knew of numerous sabotage teams on the west coast.

Read Magic or Majic by David Luxman based on recently declassified documents.

[Joe Hadenuf]

I don't know why the don't send up a high altitude reconnaissance aircraft with wide angle, high resolution camera's and have it orbit for a few days. When the next shooting occurs, look at the images....

I am confident, that if this continues, they will do this, if they are not already....

[Lokibob]

HEY, John, this is the moron he was responding to.

All the signs in the basic post point to a terrorist cell. The only thing I questioned was not moving around the country. This could come later or they have some other reason.

Guess I'll moronically wander around and step on my tongue on another thread. TC. LOL