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Evidence Disproving Evolution
myself | 10/11/02 | gore3000

Posted on 10/11/2002 9:02:01 PM PDT by gore3000

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To: gore3000
...and the "vasomotor" aspect raises a "bone of contention" that I've never gotten a really good answer for either. Many mammals...or it's "brother" terms "some" or "most" when speaking of mammals.
The mind of man is an amazing thing. The mind of an animal is still just that, the mind of an animal.

As A. J. Heschel (1965) said, whereas a theory about the stars never becomes part of the being of the stars, a theory about human beings "enters our consciousness, determines our self-image, and modifies our very existence. The image of man affects the nature of man...We become what we think of ourselves."

Are you just "an evolved animal" or a man?

161 posted on 10/12/2002 3:30:19 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: philman_36
yawn Just another tired critique of the fact that people usually believe their beliefs - whether they be evolution or creation or some amalgam of the two. The difference between an evolutionist and a creationist is that the former reaches his beliefs on a preponderance of the empirical evidence, while the latter just reaches his beliefs - evidence be damned.
162 posted on 10/12/2002 4:02:04 AM PDT by AntiGuv
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To: AntiGuv
yawn
You better watch that or you might swallow a fly.
163 posted on 10/12/2002 4:06:39 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: philman_36
...and the most pathetic thing is that those who expound on such drivel are so far gone that they cannot even see how laughable their own argument is even if it were valid. It amounts to: you should have faith because you should not have faith. LOL!
164 posted on 10/12/2002 4:09:41 AM PDT by AntiGuv
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To: AntiGuv
Did you say something?
165 posted on 10/12/2002 4:23:03 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: philman_36
LOL! :p
166 posted on 10/12/2002 4:29:33 AM PDT by AntiGuv
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To: PatrickHenry

God Bless America!
Freedom, Reason, Evolution!

167 posted on 10/12/2002 4:44:58 AM PDT by PatrickHenry
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Comment #168 Removed by Moderator

Comment #169 Removed by Moderator

To: Nateman; Ready2go
TalkOrigins has again and again been shown to be full of sophistry, obfuscation, misstatement and plain lies. They are not about substance and what they offer is not science.

In rebuttal:

Scientists with impressive credentials are leaving the doctrines of evolution. Unfortunately, no one has informed the general public.

As Science Digest reported:

Scientists who utterly reject Evolution may be one of our fastest-growing controversial minorities... Many of the scientists supporting this position hold impressive credentials in science.

Evolutionist Sir Fred Hoyle:

The notion that...the operating programme of a living cell could be arrived at by chance in a primordial soup here on the Earth is evidently nonsense of a high order.

Researcher and Mathematician I. L. Cohen:

At that moment, when the DNA/RNA system became understood, the debate between Evolutionists and Creationists should have come to a screeching halt. ...the implications of the DNA/RNA were obvious and clear. Mathematically speaking, based on probability concepts, there is no possibility that Evolution was the mechanism that created the approximately 6,000,000 species of plants and animals we recognize today.

Evolutionist Michael Denton:

The complexity of the simplest known type of cell is so great that it is impossible to accept that such an object could have been thrown together suddenly by some kind of freakish, vastly improbable, event. Such an occurrence would be indistinguishable from a miracle.

Peter Saunders (University of London) and Mae-Wan Ho (Open University):

From the claims made for neo-Darwinism one could easily get the impression that it has made great progress towards explaining Evolution, mostly leaving the details to be cleared up. In fact, quite the reverse is true.

Evolutionist Dr. Colin Patterson:

No one has ever produced a species by mechanisms of natural selection. No one has ever gotten near it...

Evolutionist Greg Kirby:

If you were to spend your life picking up bones and finding little fragments of head and little fragments of jaw, there's a very strong desire there to exaggerate the importance of those fragments...

Evolutionist Lord Solly Zuckerman:

Students of fossil primates have not been distinguished for caution... The record is so astonishing that it is legitimate to ask whether much science is...in this field at all.

Evolutionist Tom Kemp:

A circular argument arises: Interpret the fossil record in terms of a particular theory of evolution, inspect the interpretation, and note that it confirms the theory. Well, it would, wouldn't it?

Evolutionist Edmund Ambrose:

We have to admit that there is nothing in the geological records that runs contrary to the view of conservative creationists...

Paleontologist and Evolutionist Dr. Niles Eldredge, American Museum of Natural History:

The only competing explanation for the order we all see in the biological world is the notion of Special Creation.

Sir Fred Hoyle, astronomer, cosmologist, and mathematician, Cambridge University:

I have little hesitation in saying that a sickly pall now hangs over the big bang theory.

Sir Fred Hoyle, astronomer, cosmologist, and mathematician, Cambridge University:

The likelihood of the formation of life from inanimate matter is one to a number with 40,000 noughts after it... It is big enough to bury Darwin and the whole theory of evolution. ...if the beginnings of life were not random, they must therefore have been the product of purposeful intelligence.

Molecular biologist Michael Denton:

Is it really credible that random processes could have constructed a reality, the smallest element of which-a functional protein or gene-is complex beyond...anything produced by the intelligence of man?

C. Everett Koop, former U.S. Surgeon General:

When I make an incision with my scalpel, I see organs of such intricacy that there simply hasn't been enough time for natural evolutionary processes to have developed them.

Mathematician P. Saunders and biologist M. Ho:

We ourselves would be less concerned about falsifiability if neo-Darwinism were a powerful theory with major successes to its credit. But this is simply not the case.

C. Martin in American Scientist:

The mass of evidence shows that all, or almost all, known mutations are unmistakably pathological and the few remaining ones are highly suspect.

Pierre-Paul Grassé, Evolutionist:

No matter how numerous they may be, mutations do not produce any kind of Evolution.

Arthur Koestler, author:

In the meantime, the educated public continues to believe that Darwin has provided all the relevant answers by the magic formula of random mutations plus natural selection-quite unaware of the fact that random mutations turned out to be irrelevant and natural selection a tautology.

Norman Macbeth:

Darwinism has failed in practice.

Lyall Watson, Ph.D., Evolutionist:

Modern apes...seem to have sprung out of nowhere. They have no yesterday, no fossil record. And the true origin of modern humans...is, if we are to be honest with ourselves, an equally mysterious matter.

Wolfgang Smith, Ph.D.:

The Evolutionist thesis has become more stringently unthinkable than ever before...

John Woodmorappe, geologist:

Eighty to eighty-five percent of Earth's land surface does not have even 3 geologic periods appearing in 'correct' consecutive order. ...it becomes an overall exercise of gargantuan special pleading and imagination for the evolutionary-uniformitarian paradigm to maintain that there ever were geologic periods.

Evolutionist S. Lovtrup:

Micromutations do occur, but the theory that these alone can account for evolutionary change is either falsified, or else it is an unfalsifiable, hence metaphysical theory. I suppose that nobody will deny that is a great misfortune if an entire branch of science becomes addicted to a false theory. But this is what has happened in biology: ...I believe that one day the Darwinian myth will be ranked the greatest deceit in the history of science. When this happens many people will pose the question: How did this ever happen?

J. O'Rourke in the American Journal of Science:

The intelligent layman has long suspected circular reasoning in the use of rocks to date fossils and fossils to date rocks. The geologist has never bothered to think of a good reply.

N. H. Nilsson, famous botanist and Evolutionist:

My attempts to demonstrate Evolution by an experiment carried on for more than 40 years have completely failed.

Luther Sunderland, science researcher:

None of the five museum officials could offer a single example of a transitional series of fossilized organisms that would document the transformation of one basically different type to another.

Tom Kemp of Oxford University:

As is well known, most fossil species appear instantaneously in the fossil record.

Francis Hitching, archaeologist:

The curious thing is that there is a consistency about the fossil gaps; the fossils are missing in all the important places.

David Kitts, paleontologist and Evolutionist:

Evolution requires intermediate forms between species and paleontology does not provide them.

Gary Parker, Ph.D., biologist and paleontologist and former Evolutionist:

Fossils are a great embarrassment to Evolutionary theory and offer strong support for the concept of Creation.

Wolfgang Smith, Ph.D., physicist and mathematician:

A growing number of respectable scientists are defecting from the evolutionist camp. ...moreover, for the most part these 'experts' have abandoned Darwinism, not on the basis of religious faith or biblical persuasions, but on strictly scientific grounds, and in some instances, regretfully.

I. Cohen, mathematician and archaeologist:

It is not the duty of science to defend the theory of Evolution, and stick by it to the bitter end-no matter what illogical and unsupported conclusions it offers...

Ludwig von Bertalanffy, biologist:

The fact that a theory so vague, so insufficiently verifiable, and so far from the criteria otherwise applied in 'hard' science has become a dogma can only be explained on sociological grounds.

Malcolm Muggeridge, well-known philosopher:

The theory of Evolution...will be one of the great jokes in the history books of the future. Posterity will marvel that so flimsy and dubious an hypothesis could be accepted with the incredible credulity that it has.

Dr. Colin Patterson, Senior Paleontologist, British Museum of Natural History, London. The following quote was taken from a speech given by Dr. Patterson:

Last year I had a sudden realization for over twenty years I had thought I was working on Evolution in some way. One morning I woke up and something had happened in the night, and it struck me that I had been working on this stuff for twenty years and there was not one thing I knew about it. That's quite a shock to learn that one can be so misled so long. Either there was something wrong with me or there was something wrong with Evolutionary theory. Naturally, I know there is nothing wrong with me, so the last few weeks I've tried putting a simple question to various people and groups of people. Question is: Can you tell me anything you KNOW about Evolution? Any one thing? Any one thing that is true?

I tried that question on the geology staff at the Field Museum of Natural History and the only answer I got was silence. I tried it on the members of the Evolutionary Morphology Seminar in the University of Chicago, a very prestigious body of Evolutionists, and all I got there was silence for a long time, and eventually one person said, "I do know one thing-it ought not to be taught in high school.

With Thanks to Ready2go for the compilation.

170 posted on 10/12/2002 5:51:52 AM PDT by Phaedrus
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To: All
Main Entry: 1li·bel
Pronunciation: 'lI-b&l
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, written declaration, from Middle French, from Latin libellus, diminutive of liber book
Date: 14th century
1 a : a written statement in which a plaintiff in certain courts sets forth the cause of action or the relief sought b archaic : a handbill especially attacking or defaming someone
2 a : a written or oral defamatory statement or representation that conveys an unjustly unfavorable impression
b (1) : a statement or representation published without just cause and tending to expose another to public contempt
(2) : defamation of a person by written or representational means
(3) : the publication of blasphemous, treasonable, seditious, or obscene writings or pictures
(4) : the act, tort, or crime of publishing such a libel
171 posted on 10/12/2002 5:56:24 AM PDT by f.Christian
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To: elbucko
I am a Creationist in church, an evolutionist the rest of the time. I can live in harmony with both concepts. As a matter of truth, I really don't see the dispute.

Then you emphatically do not understand Evolution.

172 posted on 10/12/2002 5:59:59 AM PDT by Phaedrus
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To: nanrod
"Petroleum - the archetypal fossil fuel - couldn't have formed from the remains of dead animals and plants, claim US and Russian researchers1. They argue that petroleum... originated---from minerals at extreme temperatures and pressures."
173 posted on 10/12/2002 6:03:56 AM PDT by f.Christian
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To: Hunble
By 1850, every scientist in Europe realized that Evolution was a fact, but they had no idea how it worked.

Just flat wrong. The point of science is to tell us how things work.

Darwin, even if his origional theory was not able to account for all of the facts, did an outstanding job of explaining about 90% of what we observe today. Not a bad record!

Darwin speculates but he explains nothing. The evidence contradicts him. It is an abominable record.

174 posted on 10/12/2002 6:11:54 AM PDT by Phaedrus
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To: PatrickHenry; All
Creation/God...REFORMATION(Judeo-Christianity)---secular-govt.-humanism/SCIENCE---CIVILIZATION!

Originally the word liberal meant social conservatives(no govt religion--none) who advocated growth and progress---mostly technological(knowledge being absolute/unchanging)based on law--reality... UNDER GOD---the nature of GOD/man/govt. does not change. These were the Classical liberals...founding fathers-PRINCIPLES---stable/SANE scientific reality/society---industrial progress...moral/social character-values(private/personal) GROWTH(limited NON-intrusive PC Govt/religion---schools)!

Evolution...Atheism-dehumanism---TYRANNY(pc-religion/rhetoric)...

Then came the SPLIT SCHIZOPHRENIA/ZOMBIE/BRAVE-NWO1984 LIBERAL NEO-Soviet Darwin America---the post-modern age

175 posted on 10/12/2002 6:21:17 AM PDT by f.Christian
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To: f.Christian
To: f.Christian

Now I follow, thank you. Actually, I don't disagree with this at all since I see the left as abandoning the uncertianty of democracy and majority rule for the assurance technocracy and expert rule.

152 posted on 9/10/02 12:17 PM Pacific by Liberal Classic

176 posted on 10/12/2002 6:32:01 AM PDT by f.Christian
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To: f.Christian
Running joke is 'evo-science'...

biggest cult of oxy-moonie-morons---art bells!

Latest evo gem--artist...

Sure. All domesticated animal husbandry is proof of evolution but in the case of planned animal husbandry, man, rather than environmental influences, play the role of selectivity. Try to think this through, which, I realize, may not be easy. If you cross a poodle to a poodle, do you get a wolf? (Knock, Knock)

Now: Do you care to give me scientific proof that God exists?

I'm not kidding. You people amaze me.

294 posted on 8/25/02 12:02 PM Pacific by AllSmiles


More...


Like FR 'patrickhenry'...

"search for the creator via evolution"---

"total--only evolution" too---

Now...latest---"NO COMPETITION"!


The papal encyclical rightwingprofessor-whack thinks/interprets---"professes evolution"...

could abortion be next???


Nebullis..."preschool evolution---INTENSIVELY"---


donh..."if the sun can create crystals-snowflakes...human life would certainly follow"---

(Why, if the sun can create crystals and snowflakes, can't it create life?)

(How much different is my paraphase of your rhetorical question---statement!)


also by donh...Hitler and nazi germany were all Christians---creationists!

(With this statement we can safely say bankrobbers/murderers are auditors/morticians!)


dominick harr..."just like a ball bouncing down the stairs----evolution created everything"---

jennyp..."anarchist evolutionary(natural) capitalism---Christianity(manmade) is communism"---

and patrickhenry doesn't know..."if prior to darwin---if science existed"...

SkyRat...Divine hammer-retribution from above via evolution!

exdemmom...evolution is the "lug wrench" that fixes science--biology/life!

...snip---


177 posted on 10/12/2002 6:35:44 AM PDT by f.Christian
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To: LanaTurnerOverdrive
Although I do not believe that all humans descended from Adam and Eve, the existence of different races or skin colors doesn't actually refute the possibility. (However, the wide variety of different genetic alleles does rule it out, unless either Adam and Eve lived over a million years ago, or there was at some time in the past, a much higher level of mutations, yet paradoxically these did not lead to higher levels of deformities, which would require constant genetic interference from God.)

A population will get darker just by moving to a place like Africa, as paler people get more skin cancer, sunburns keep them from feeling horny, etc. And a population will get lighter in a cloudy place as lack of Vitamin D (which sunlight allows lighter people to make) causes higher death rates among the dark. This is of course Darwinian evolution. And indeed, the Finns were a relatively dark Middle Eastern people 1,000 years ago, when they first migrated to Finland.

178 posted on 10/12/2002 9:01:46 AM PDT by DWPittelli
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To: AndrewC
Your math may be correct, but it is not relevant unless we assume that only a single one of the possible chains of 250 amino acids would work. Perhaps many would work. Perhaps all would work. And perhaps the simplest self-repicating structure had no DNA at all.
179 posted on 10/12/2002 9:04:43 AM PDT by DWPittelli
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To: elbucko; Phaedrus; gore3000
If I may offer a few comments regarding your post #126, elbucko.

IMHO, there would not be such discord if evolutionary biology rejected all ideology when presented to children.

It would be rather easy in K-12 public schools by simply not presenting randomness as a required element of the theory, and instead speak of environmental niches. The resistance to such a compromise adds weight to the parental concern that the theory is promoting ideology under color of science - as asserted by Harvard Genetics Professor Richard Lewontin:

We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counterintuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door. The eminent Kant scholar Lewis Beck used to say that anyone who could believe in God could believe in anything. To appeal to an omnipotent deity is to allow that at any moment the regularities of nature may be ruptured, that miracles may happen.

The Unraveling of Scientific Materialism

You say you live in harmony with both concepts [evolution and creation.} And you achieve this harmony by keeping each in an inviolate venue.

Conversely, I see true harmony between science and the Word; therefore, I see no need to separate them:

Freeper Views on Origins
Freeper Views on Origins - Patriarchs

Just my two cents...

180 posted on 10/12/2002 9:05:25 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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