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To: alwaysconservative
Bible calls homosexuality an abomination - Leviticus 18:22 —

Leviticus 18:22 "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination." (Lev. 20:13; Rom. 1:27; 1 Cor 6:9-10).

The correct reference for the death penalty is Leviticus 20:13 "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."

As homosexual acts (Rom. 1:26) are directly against the initial command of God to be fertile and multiply (Gn. 1:28), and as no relationship can be built with God by a person who is denied the possibility of coming into existence, the death penalty for such acts is well warranted (Gn. 6:4-5; Jude 1:6-7; Gn. 13:13, 18:20, 19:4-5, 24; Dt. 29:23; Isa. 3:9; Jer. 23:14).

Sentient creation is the unlimited God's chosen way of best sharing with intelligent spiritual beings – the spiritual intellect is the important aspect of creation while the bodily form –latter to be resurrected– is the method chosen to bring the spirit to its greatest potential for full relationship with God in eternal life.

Procured abortion –a heinous form of cold-blooded murder, a crime scripturally warranting the death penalty that also subjects primary offenders and accomplices to automatic excommunication in the Catholic Church– is less of an offense against God than homosexual conduct. Abortion takes the life of an innocent person. A homosexual act –an abuse of the sexual faculty– denies potential life to a possible innocent person. An aborted person has the opportunity to obtain eternal life. A non-conceived person never has that opportunity.


Classical sodomy, the form commonly understood by most Old and New Testament Bible readers includes sexual activity between two persons of the same sex –whether male or female– or any sexual act between any human being and an animal (dog, sheep, donkey, monkey, etc.).
"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." [Leviticus 20:13]
"Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity." [Romans 1:26-27]
"The angels too, who did not keep to their own domain but deserted their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains, in gloom, for the judgment of the great day. Likewise, Sodom, Gomorrah, and the surrounding towns, which, in the same manner as they, indulged in sexual promiscuity and practiced unnatural vice, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire." [Jude 6,7]
"Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor practicing homosexuals nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God." [1 Corinthians 6:9-10]
"Anyone who lies with an animal shall be put to death." [Exodus 22:19]
"But as for cowards, the unfaithful, the depraved, murderers, the unchaste, sorcerers, idol-worshipers, and deceivers of every sort, their lot is in the burning pool of fire and sulfur, which is the second death." [Revelations 21:8]

Practical or inherent sodomy is in essence no different than classical sodomy. The initial command of God is foundational for arriving at an understanding of practical sodomy.

God blessed them, saying: "Be fertile and multiply;
fill the earth2 and subdue it." [Gn. 1:28 and 9:1,7]

The essence of the command is procreation. The essence of the term sodomy then includes any use of the sexual faculty –by two humans or one human and an animal– that by act or intention precludes the bringing of new human life into existence. The use of the sexual faculty without being open to its intended result is contrary to the will of God who designed into human nature the very strong urge for relationships designed to produce human forms for occupancy by eternal spirits designated to share the magnificence of His existence. God, an intellectual being, designed compatible beings capable of both utilizing His creative capacity and sharing with Him in an intellectual manner. (The concept should be clear that in both classical and practical sodomy the result is the same – use of one's sexuality faculty in a manner that is not open to pregnancy.)

God created in order to have an uncountable number of intellectual beings to share eternal existence with Him. This was, is, and forever will be the whole point of every facet of creation. His desire is unalterable. Our choice is to share in building the Kingdom to its fullness according to His will or to be rejected for occupancy in His Kingdom.

The necessity of intellectual life is foundational to all other considerations. To place limits on procreation is to limit the creative capacity of God who is Himself without limits. Without procreated intellectual life there is no reason for created existence. To use one's sexual faculty without acceptance of life as its natural consequence is condemnatory. While repentance is for a time available, no number of good deeds can ever take the place of life forever lost to God's Kingdom.

Saint Paul expresses the importance of pregnancy as follows.

"But she will be saved through motherhood,
provided women persevere in faith and love
and holiness, with self-control." [1 Tim. 2:15]
(Motherhood occurs at conception)

God not only refers to pregnancy as being a blessing for women, but has established His own version of Natural Family Planning that is intended to increase the probability of pregnancy. God ordered women's fertility cycle in such a fashion that in conjunction with required sexual abstinence the incidence of pregnancy would be at its greatest when copulation inevitably takes place. While there is no requirement to be married, –St. Paul comments that in single life one can be of greater service to God and His community [1Cor. 7:7, 32-34]– those who do marry should be mindful of the initial commandment given by God to humanity ("Be fertile and multiply.").
249 posted on 11/03/2002 10:08:22 PM PST by Coleus
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To: Coleus
I understand and respect your concerns and the basis for your belief on this issue. Let me go back to my original comment, if I can remember it correctly, which was more narrowly focused. I simply said that in the 10 commandments, God's proclaimed Word to His people, there was no commandment against homosexuality. All the other "biggies" are there: putting God first, killing, stealing, adultery, idol worship, covetousness, honoring your parents, keeping the Sabbath holy. If this one issue was a concern for Him, I don't think He would have overlooked it when He gave His pronouncements to Moses. Nor did He exclude from His presence (or presumably eternally damn) those who violated the commandments since Moses, for one, had already killed, and was accepted into Heaven. (And several Old Testament prophets went into Heaven, despite less than perfect lives.)

The Bible calls many things "an abomination", some of which are significant, some of which are not. Eating shellfish is an abomination unto the Lord, as is eating pork. When the word is used that indiscriminately, particularly as found in the law of Leviticus, I tend to go back to the commandments and the direct pronouncements through the words of God himself or as He told to the prophets. For example, the Lord said that He will demand the price of our lives for eating flesh (Genesis 9:4-5), and whoever kills an ox is the same as killing a man (Isaiah 66:3-4), and that he desires mercy and not sacrifice (Hosea, I can't remember the verse). I am not a homosexual, and I don't eat flesh foods. Does that mean that because I follow these laws, I will gain entrance to Heaven; or conversely, that someone who does not follow the law is prohibited from the kingdom of Heaven and should be shunned by us? I thought Jesus' death changed all that; it is what is in our hearts that counts, and it is up to Him, not us, to judge us for what is in our hearts.

He also said that whoever was without sin could cast the first stone, and no one could then "rightly" punish the harlot for her crimes. I don't believe that the Kingdom of God is an exclusive club for any particular group (as the Pharisees did), nor do I think that the Republican party should have an entrance examination to see who is without sin before they're allowed to share "our" ideals and goals.

Romans is a beautiful witness to a mature theology on the part of Paul. But you have selected only one verse out of an entire passage of how humankind has betrayed God. Read all of Romans 1:18-32. Verses 22-23: "Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles." This is a clear warning for humans NOT to attempt to usurp God's power and glory for ourselves; NOT to set ourselves up as God; not to place our human and earthly concerns on the level of God (which is the sin of political environmentalism, in my opinion). But even Paul talks about several other sins of sexual impurity, about turning away from God, depravity, before he gets to mentioning homosexuality as part of the sin of turning away from God. The remainder of THAT list is pretty extensive.

I believe that Jesus' example was that of acceptance of sinners and the outcast, rather than prohibiting them from dining at His table. That's my belief, and I try to practice it.
255 posted on 11/04/2002 7:06:02 AM PST by alwaysconservative
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