Posted on 10/20/2002 7:46:13 AM PDT by RogerFGay
Edited on 07/07/2004 4:48:24 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
I treated him like a king, I was faithful to him, and never cheating on him. (He, on the other hand, was engaged before the divorce was even final). I was in school, trying to get the education I needed to go to work, to help with the bills. He didn't work steady the entire marriage.
I was granted full custody of the kids, and he was ordered to pay $150.00 a month to help support them. He has made one payment since May. I have paid the entire bill for their support. I am fine with that, because when I do get the support payments, I split them in half and put them in the bank for the kids for college.
Women do have just as much responsibility for making the marriage work as men do, but what about when the women did nothing wrong and the man disappears and takes the children with him.
I intend to stay single until my children are grown and out of the house because I can't seem to find a man who has his head screwed on straight; and I refuse to subject my children to being hurt by a man I choose as a partner.
And deservidly so. (Is that a word?)
You have no idea...
Not to try and make lite of whatever you're situation was, but this the statement above, and one's just like it, is a real pet-peeve. Your children were not owed $5000, you were. Child support checks are not made out to "the children." The children are not legally entitled to have ANY child support collected spent on them. They are not entitled to any arreages collected after they become adults. Hell, the child support enforcement agencies refuse to even print "Money for the support of (child's name)" on the memo line of the checks that they send out.
I'm sorry to hear that you and your kids had a hard time with the situation. It just seems like the people who argue the most about keeping the kids out of the middle of the arguments usually have no problem with using those kids to demonize their father's.
Correction, the money was not mine. It was to be spent on caring for and providing for my daughters. Thus, in my mind he owed the money to them...not me.
the people who argue the most about keeping the kids out of the middle of the arguments usually have no problem with using those kids to demonize their father's.
I'm not exactly certain if you are implying that I was guilty of this behavior, but I can assure you that the many broken promises he made to his daughters resulted in their decision in more recent years to avoid him at all costs.
You've made my point. It takes two who understand what a vow is, and have the personal integrity to see it through, even when it seems easier to cut and run. We've both been on the receiving end of people who place personal convenience and selfish interest above their responsibilities. Sad to say, there are a lot of people like that out there. I've always said I'd rather be in a relationship than be alone, but I'd rather be alone than be in a bad relationship. My life for the last 11 years has been peaceful, if not full.
Actually, I've learned to be OK with being alone. Sounds like you are in similar circumstances. We have to play the hand we're dealt, like it or not. God willing, we'll both find a person worthy of us, and move on. In the meantime, I wish you success with raising the children, and that they grow up to be good and wonderful adults. My kids did just that, and they make me very proud.
You left out one verrryyyyy important part. Don't forget that the man in the marriage will pay the woman for 18 years for getting impregnated by that other man in the form of "child" support. Even if he proves it's not his, it's STILL "his responsibility" to support that child.
BULLSH1T! No judge ever lowers it to zero! They DO NOT have the discretion to do so. Unless you don't live in the US.
Are you calling me a liar? Are you telling me that my daughters and I did not go through what we did?
We got zip, zilch, zero, NOTHING!
And Madam...this happened in Illinois.
You have..............issues, my friend.
Your daughter.........and subsequently, you..........got the raw end of the deal with her ex, to be sure. However, the point was a valid one: Why in GOD'S NAME would she stay with some asshole who beat her for eight freakin' years???? I just don't understand that, I've never understood that, and I never will understand that. NO excuse or pseudo-explanation can possibly work in such an instance.
Next question.
IF you knew about it, why did you "allow" this asshole to beat your daughter for eight years? If you didn't know about it, drop the last question and we'll label it "off the mark".
However, I'll tell you this, as a father of seven: Any prick that beat one of MY daughters would be eating through a straw in an ICU for a long, long time.
One poster on a Gay thread (ya know, with a name like Roger F. Gay, and his intense animosity towards women, one might be forgiven for engagin in irresponsible speculation about his sexual orientation :o) was complaining about having to pay $300 a month in interest on a $200 child support payment that he'd gone into arrears. When I checked his state's laws, I found that the APR on child support arrears was 10%. In other words, he managed to owe $36,000 on $200 a month--which meant that he hadn't paid one thin dime in 15 years. And he was complaining that HE got shafted...not one of concern for his children, though.
Waukesha - As Dale Huebner strangled his wife, Carla, with his necktie, their 16-year-old son watched, refusing his mother's dying pleas to call 911.
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"No, you chose, you chose," he told her, angry that she was leaving their father and befriending another man.
The couple's 13-year-old son had run to the basement, where he covered his ears and cried.
The older boy stood by as his parents struggled, fell together over a chair, hit an amplifier and landed on the floor, his father on top of his mother.
After Carla, 44, stopped struggling and died, the 16-year-old said, his father went to the kitchen and began popping prescription medications and drinking brandy in an attempt to commit suicide.
Dale Huebner told his sons to go to a movie and come back in four hours, that the pills should kick in by then. That was about 5 p.m.
The boys obeyed their father and left - and didn't call police for seven hours.
They passed the time by driving around town, walking around a mall, eating dinner at a Cousins Subs shop and twice returning home to check on their father, who each time was still alive.
Then they went to a movie, viewing the R-rated comedy "Not Another Teen Movie." When they returned home, their father was still unconscious. Only after weighing the pros and cons of calling police did they phone their paternal grandparents and then police about 11:40 p.m.
"The pros for letting Dad die was he was going to be with Mom, he wouldn't have to go to prison," the 16-year-old wrote to police. "The cons for Dad dying - what if Mom's not dead, we could get into trouble. We didn't want to screw ourselves for letting him die."
The teens' chilling description of the murder and its aftermath were made public for the first time as part of a lengthy memorandum prosecutors filed in Waukesha County Circuit Court in preparation for Dale Huebner's sentencing Nov. 1. The boys' names are not being reported by the Journal Sentinel because they are juveniles.
Described by prosecutors as an obsessive, controlling husband who would fine and otherwise punish his wife for late dinners and other violations of his rules, the 47-year-old Huebner was convicted after pleading no contest to first-degree intentional homicide.
He now faces a mandatory sentence of life in prison. Waukesha County Circuit Judge Michael Bohren must decide when, if ever, he should be eligible for parole.
Prosecutors will use the memorandum to argue that he should never be released for the horror they say he wrought on his wife and sons.
The memo - buttressed with a reporter's lengthy interview with Carla Huebner's family - provides the first public look at the boys' actions the day their mother was murdered.
The sons originally told police that they had not witnessed their mother's slaying on Jan. 6.
At the Waukesha police station hours after the 911 call, the boys told officers that they had left the house that afternoon because they were tired of listening to their parents argue.
They originally told police that they found their dead mother when they returned. Finding their father unconscious, they called their grandparents and then 911, the boys said.
But police, suspicious about discrepancies in their stories, kept digging.
On Jan. 21, after keeping their secret for two weeks, the boys wrote new statements.
"I verbally tried to stop a fight that couldn't be stopped," the 16-year-old stated.
He also wrote that he and his brother saw their father pull off his necktie - which his wife had given him for Christmas just days earlier - and come up behind their mother in the 13-year-old's room and wrap the tie around her neck.
The younger boy wrote that he thought his father was leaning in to give his mother a kiss. When Dale pulled the tie around her, the 13-year-old wrote, "Mom started screaming, 'Stop it' and just screams. I ran out of my room and down into the basement and plugged my ears and cried."
The older brother wrote that he stayed in the doorway.
"I wasn't sure that my mother couldn't breathe," the 16-year-old wrote. "She said, 'Call 9-1-1.' I said, 'No, you chose, you chose.'
"She was also yelling 'Dale! Dale!' I was yelling 'Please don't file charges if Dad stops' and 'Dad loves you.' "
"My mother put up a pretty good fight," the 16-year-old wrote. When it was over, he said, his father knelt next to her.
"My dad said, 'You're my wife. I'm sorry.' He also said something to the effect of, 'You will always be my wife.' "
He also assured his boys that the man he insisted Carla was having an affair with "has no right in your life." Carla had denied having an affair.
Carla's parents, Hans and Anneliese Rothkegel, said that they still are struggling to deal with their grandsons' actions - and inactions.
"My God, so Carla was lying there from 5 to almost midnight before anybody called," Carla's mother said. "How can you go to a movie if you know your mother is dead? How can you turn your back on her?"
The Rothkegels have not seen their grandsons since the funeral. The boys live with Dale's parents, Robert and Elaine Huebner. Carla's younger sister, Heidi Nienow, who was appointed as the boys' legal guardian, attended the 16-year-old's Catholic confirmation in May, as did Rita Vosburg, Carla's older sister.
"Not knowing what really happened that night, you're afraid to make the first move," Vosburg said.
Carla's mother said: "I think about the boys so much. I always ask Carla - give me a sign, what should I do? It's not easy to just lose two grandchildren."
Carla's father said that the family may someday resume contact.
Of Dale Huebner, Carla's mother said bitterly: "He should never walk the street again, that's for sure. He should have life in prison."
"I don't have any feelings of hate," Hans Rothkegel said, but added, "I'm very, very angry."
Waukesha County District Attorney Paul Bucher said his office considered charging the boys for failing to come to the aid of a crime victim.
"I was, and am, very concerned for the boys," Bucher said. "I wanted to get them into therapy and treatment as soon as possible. We were ready to act if that was not going to occur."
Craig Kuhary, Dale Huebner's lawyer, said his client wished the boys had never been home that day.
"I think if Dale would say anything it would be that they were just kind of caught in the middle of a no-win situation. And they shouldn't be judged on their actions that particular day," Kuhary said.
By all accounts, the boys excel in school. The 16-year-old had the lead in a summer school play, Carla's mother noted. His younger brother is talented at several musical instruments.
The prosecution memorandum, written by Bucher and Assistant District Attorney William Roach, cites "fear, a sense of loss, loyalty toward their father or anger toward their mother" as possible explanations for the boys' behavior on Jan. 6 and the days following.
It also paints a picture of Dale Huebner as an obsessive man who went to great lengths to dehumanize and exert bizarre control over his family.
The boys were not allowed to watch any live television. Their father used 11 VCRs and five televisions to constantly tape programs, which he had to approve before the boys could watch them, the memorandum says.
According to checkbook receipts found in the Lemira Ave. home, Dale Huebner would "fine" his wife when she would disobey his orders or disrupt his desires.
An Oct. 2, 2001, note to his wife said he was fining her $500. The reason: "Before we plan to have sex bringing up something we were arguing about in attempt to 'quickly win' just before. Or generally bringing up dumb and distracting non-sex crap at this time."
Tuesday and Saturdays were "sex nights," said the memorandum. Every night, dinner had to be at exactly the same time, or she would be fined for every minute late.
When he said she once left a window open and lied about it, he fined her $100. Her failure to put an office file on the dining room table as commanded cost her $40.
Dale Huebner was often unemployed, and Carla generally paid the bills through her income as a legal secretary, a Mary Kay cosmetics saleswoman and later a financial investment counselor for a business the couple created.
Police obtained notebook paper on which Carla Huebner had written the same paragraph 10 times, in an apparent punishment for criticizing her husband.
It read: "I will honor my husband when speaking in public and I will not reveal any wrongdoings that I may or may not participate in when speaking to the public. By remembering this I will not be placed at risk or put anyone else at risk and I will not compromise my posture and position with the less experienced in my field."
Bucher said that as cold and horrific as the boys' behavior was the night of the slaying, he decided early on that he wanted to focus on Dale Huebner - the one who did the killing.
"How he dealt with his sons and the controlling nature of Huebner, it just didn't seem appropriate to focus on anybody other than Mr. Huebner," Bucher said.
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Dale Huebner
Mom started screaming, 'Stop it' and just screams. I ran out of my room and down into the basement and plugged my ears and cried. 