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Drivers of White Vans are being treated as criminals
Vanity | Self

Posted on 10/20/2002 7:48:19 AM PDT by SamAdams76

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To: McGavin999
Obviously not ALL drivers of white vans are being "busted". Probably just those who are mouthing off about needing a search warrant...

Those BASTARDS!
1,061 posted on 10/21/2002 11:25:35 AM PDT by Stone Mountain
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To: Texasforever
"I see the radio clipped to her left side so I would assume she is right handed wouldn't you?"

Yes

1,062 posted on 10/21/2002 1:00:59 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: Mo1
I saw the radio on the belt. It appears her left hand isn't in the picture. The pic has poor resolution. What I was looking at appears to be something hanging on the door.
1,063 posted on 10/21/2002 1:06:55 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: Iron Eagle
Do you think that is civilized treatment to place the suspect on the ground like that? What legal remedy does a innocent person have after being subject to being forced to the ground like that?
1,064 posted on 10/21/2002 1:10:19 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: spunkets
Do you think that is civilized treatment to place the suspect on the ground like that?

I can't answer that. I don't know what the suspect has done, if anything. The picture tells us nothing. It may well be that the police used appropriate force. Police, are empowered to use that force which is appropriate. Since we don't know what this guy did, we can't make any informed guesses as to how he ended up in that position. As for "civilized," I am not sure what you mean. If the man did nothing an was merely yanked from his truck, shoved to the ground, and cuffed face down on the ground, that is neither legal or civilized.

What legal remedy does a innocent person have after being subject to being forced to the ground like that?

If innocent, and even if not innocent, the person can bring a civil suit against the officer for actions outside the scope of his powers. He could even bring an action against the governmental body for failing to contol, train, etc. the officer.

The individual could swear out a complaint for assualt and battery against the officer. (Prosecution would be at the discretion of the Commonwealth's attorny after and investigation).

Of course, all of these remedies have costs. But a person who believes he or she has been wrongfully assualted and battered, had one's civil and Constitutional rights trampled, is not without recourse in the sytem.

1,065 posted on 10/21/2002 3:32:54 PM PDT by Iron Eagle
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Drivers of White Vans are being treated as criminals

Now they know what it's like to be a gun owner.

1,066 posted on 10/21/2002 3:35:39 PM PDT by Redcloak
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To: FormerLurker
Sorry for the belated reply, I had already retired for the evening when you posted it.

I do have a concern about all of this idea though. What if a hostile enemy WERE PROBING our capabilities. What should we do in that case?

I wouldn't worry too much, as we've already used this method in Afganistan and other places in one form or another.

... Our society is giving up our very idea of Freedom in order to catch a sniper. Is that how we should react to potentially the actions of just ONE PERSON?

Good question. From what I can see in the two pictures presented, it does appear overly heavy-handed with such a vague clue to go on (just the white van, as far as I know). On the surface it looks like LE did what they did to look like they were "doing something", and with the intense media coverage/pressure and a poor communicator (Chief Moose) I am not surprised. IMO, it was a very poor decision if all they were going on was the white van clue with nothing else.

1,067 posted on 10/21/2002 5:12:16 PM PDT by cidrasm
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To: Iron Eagle
I am not sure what you mean. If the man did nothing an was merely yanked from his truck, shoved to the ground, and cuffed face down on the ground, that is neither legal or civilized.

Since everyone here, on both sides of the argument, is involved in nothing more than conjecture about the situation portrayed in these photos you have conceded the point that excessive force may have been used.

Thank you, counselor, for your legal expertise.

1,068 posted on 10/21/2002 7:13:53 PM PDT by TigersEye
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To: Iron Eagle
You call it fascinating - I call it frightening.
1,069 posted on 10/21/2002 8:46:52 PM PDT by luvtheconstitution
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To: TigersEye
My "concession" is no more than admitting the obvious.

As I have posted over and over again, bring me a party -- including the handcuffed guy, who believes his rights have been violated, and I will evaluate the case for free, and file and prosecute the case for free if it has merit.

At this point, however, all we have is people viewing a picture and assuming the worse, without a fact-witness allegation. I presume to assume nothing. If rights are trampled, we will here about it and appropriate action will be taken.

1,070 posted on 10/22/2002 6:46:41 AM PDT by Iron Eagle
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To: SamAdams76
My guess, after seeing HUNDREDS of white vans searched this AM (Tuesday)....is that the man on the ground in the pic above, probably said or did something SMARTBUTT to the Officer.

Today, those cops were NOT pulling people out of the vans...they asked permission, looked inside, opened doors, people got out of the vans...etc. ALL willingly. It is our duty to cooperate--within our RIGHTS---if we refuse to allow them to search our vehicle, then they have the right to pull us out of line, hold us, get a warrent etc. It is OUR CHOICE to cooperate or not. IF you start screaming "Constitutional RIGHTS agains UNREASONABLE search and seizure at a stop light near the SNIPER SHOOTING...What do you EXPECT the cops to do???

GRRRRRRRollin

1,071 posted on 10/22/2002 6:52:09 AM PDT by GRRRRR
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To: SamAdams76
They are not being treated as criminals, they are being treated as "SUSPECTS"... which at this point and time, like it or not they are. Just as, like it or not, arab men 18-40, are as well.
1,072 posted on 10/22/2002 6:56:41 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: Iron Eagle
At this point, however, all we have is people viewing a picture and assuming the worse, without a fact-witness allegation.

Well, not quite all. We also have people viewing a picture and denying any possibility that the police have overreacted. Also by assumption and in the absence of fact-witness statements.

The pictures themselves were only relevant to my overall position because they verify that 'felony stop' type procedures were being used. My position being that 'a white van' was too vague and generalised a criteria, due to lack of substantial and credible linkage to the criminal, to be considered a reasonable basis for a felony stop protocol to be exercised.

If a series of brutal rapes against women had taken place in a given community and the one and only common identifier reported was that he wore brown shoes (we'll make it a given that he was a man) would that satisfy a constitutional standard of probable cause to stop, question, detain and search every male citizen who was found wearing brown shoes?

1,073 posted on 10/22/2002 1:38:44 PM PDT by TigersEye
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