Posted on 10/22/2002 11:24:51 AM PDT by shrinkermd
I shall await your return with breathless anticipation. ;>)
The effort was worth every hour if My efforts seem of merit on the positions presented.
Aaahhh, you're still a baby. *teasing*
By the way, did the dialects of the characters I imagined come across well? I really tried quite hard to make them seem as real as possible.
You are quite welcome. May you find the rest of My musings in the past the same, and those in the future worthy of more of your interest and approval. *smile*
Do you like the song "The Town of El Paso at all? I normally simply sing that one without the guitar, as to do it all well with some accompaniament requires two guitars -and I am somewhat of a perfectionist in that area.
What charming replies. :) But start breathing again, please!
Breathing patterns have an effect on the mind, then the mind further effects the breathing, and so on ... many times with amazing results! (Even a "baby", as you call me, knows that ;-)
I read some more of the thread (sitting on my hands to keep from replying to some of them!) and I'm glad I took the time.
I see in your post #541 that you realize women do have some wiring designed for protection, too. Fierce protection where children are concerned, I might add.
Our size and strength may only enable us w/ a quieter, gentler protection for a man, but still powerful.
Though I would argue with your comment that women ever held all the power. Men also held, do hold, women's lives in their hands, like it or not.
Sadly, today it appears both women and men, in general, have deviated from their natural pulls to honor/protect eachother.
"I simply can not agree with your opinion that men held the best interest of the woman higher than his own. Just as I would not agree with the opinion that women did."
"I am greatly saddened to hear of your disagreement...There was a time, when this was absolutely true, and some still indeed believe in this manner. Women as well. "
Just to clarify: my comment(s) are really more general rather than specifically directed. Men , in general - women, in general. And most in the context of today's society.
I'm steering a bit off topic, again, here. But:
Then they are just fooling themselves and attempting to fool the other.
If they trulycared "so much" they wouldn't deliberately hurt. If they honestly held that person's interest higher than their own, they wouldn't be lashing out to relieve their own pain through causing pain to the other. Both emotions can't exist together.
I think I understand anger and how it works, I don't believe on this topic we're talking about the sudden flare up but relationship-damaging hurting. Where true care and higher regard for someone else honestly exists, one would accept and wish the person happiness and success. Not attempt to hurt them or overpower them in order to force their own way. How can it be otherwise?
Thank you, but, really I don't! I enjoy accepting each person as an individual and as they come. I have met some treasures, too!:-)
Yes, and you did very well, thank you. :-)
But I'm curious...
we need to realize the folly thereof and figure out some method to come together and decide how best to resolve the mess, such as actually getting together and formulating some concrete actions.
How do you suggest we come together and "bell the cat" ?
What alluring incentive. ;<)
But start breathing again, please!
I shall try, but with continued exposure to such a fascinating commentator, such might prove to be somewhat difficult without constant reminders. *smile*
Breathing patterns have an effect on the mind,...
Ah, lassie; trust Me when I say that breathing is not the only thing affecting My mind thus far.
I read some more of the thread (sitting on my hands to keep from replying to some of them!) -Oooh, now THERE'S a mental picture worth noting!- and I'm glad I took the time.
As am I. Doubtless you now have a better understanding of why I hold the positions I do than at your initial summation.
I see in your post #541 that you realize women do have some wiring designed for protection, too. Fierce protection where children are concerned, I might add.
Our size and strength may only enable us w/ a quieter, gentler protection for a man, but still powerful.
Where to begin on this one... As always, I do realize that women have some wiring designed for protection as well, nor have I ever attempted to diminish or demean the capabilities of women for any reason. Indeed, the core of My position in this matter has been that both males and females are two parts of a combined whole. Not exactly two halves, as that immediately pushes some to suspect that 'their' half is of less or more importance than the other, but more of a blending of two separate parts into a whole much greater than the sum of the two alone.
Perhaps the Far Eastern viewpoint sums it up best: A man's strength is as a rock; hard, solid, unyielding. A woman's strength is as water; soft, liquid, yielding to all. A rock may seem incredibly powerful, but its strenth is only in its unyielding firmness. Water may seem to be yielding to all, and the ultimate in conforming to any changes... but ultimately, water will defeat stone, and to attempt to classify one or the other as stronger or weaker is illogical in the extreme. Both have strenths, both have weaknesses. They are neither equal or unequal, merely different aspects of a much greater whole.
Though I would argue with your comment that women ever held all the power. Men also held, do hold, women's lives in their hands, like it or not.
I make that observation from the position that women are entrusted with the nurturing and instruction of the future generations, and from that standpoint they literally hold the fate of our entire species in their hands. We males entrust our offspring into your care, and set ourselves to providing and protecting for you even at the cost of our own lives. From that standpoint, females do indeed hold the greatest power imaginable.
Sadly, today it appears both women and men, in general, have deviated from their natural pulls to honor/protect eachother.
In general, on this we are agreed, oh beguileing one. However, I still maintain that the vast majority of males that I have known, and do know, wish passionately to find a special someone to honor and protect -and that will honor and respect them in return. Is this mostly fallen by the wayside in this day and age? Sadly, yes, but that does not mean that this is not something unhoped or unstriven for. Too, I will readily admit to being one of those with such a hope.
It seems my earlier posts, both on this thread and the other one I referenced, would prove that in our core positions we completely agree.
Yes, it does. Quite beautifully, thanks!
BUT (I'll bet you saw that coming ? ;), at the regrettable risk of appearing tenacious in my core position, isn't strength equivalent to power?
If so, then it follows that by stating this:
aren't you attempting "to classify one or the other as stronger or weaker "-- which, in your own words, would seem "illogical in the extreme" ? ?
My point here is that, as you also stated:
We males entrust our offspring into your care, and set ourselves to providing and protecting for you...
Yet, both generally and specifically, a woman's influence can be greatly undermined or even forbidden by men's lack of support, lack of protection, antagonism, etc.
In the end, this female "greatest power imaginable" is still proven to be interdependent on the male...still proves out the necessity to blend the two seperate parts into an effective whole. I would argue that it is the combined, effective whole that is truly "the greatest power imaginable".
"Vast majority of males" is an impressive total, I must say. Females aren't completely unrepresented in sharing or striving for those hopes.
Chin up! Perhaps we may find a way to come together and turn the tide before too long. For our future's sake, I sincerely hope so!
Oh, btw, regarding your earlier question:
Yes, your character's dialects in the "Bell the Cat" story were very convincing and smoothly fluid w/ the story. Well done! *S*
Indeed so, and I am ecstatic beyond words to discover this. Now to see if we can arrive at mutually satisfactory agreements on our other positions to more readily determine results that are more compatible and applicable to the interests at hand. What of My other positions? Perhaps a more penetrating insight will occur as we delve into the other areas adjacent to the core positions.
"...at the regrettable risk of appearing tenacious in my core position, isn't strength equivalent to power?"
It grieves Me sorely to disagree with you in this matter, but I do not believe so.
Just as knowledge does not necessarily equate to wisdom, neither does strength mandate power. You can be so strong physically that you can lift a set of weights totalling five hundred pounds over your head, but if you can only do it once and cannot throw bales of hay all day long at the farm, is that really power? You can be a general in an army, but if you cannot do anything without the express written consent of five politicians in your government (all of whom are rivals), you have no actual power, I believe. Relating directly to the male / female issue; if a male is physically stronger than his female partner, but uses his greater strength to physically abuse her, he has by his actions stated without a doubt both that he has no power, and that he either knows that fact or is afraid that it might be so -and any observer knows this instinctively.
" "...women are entrusted with the nurturing and instruction of the future generations...From that standpoint, females do indeed hold the greatest power imaginable." aren't you attempting "to classify one or the other as stronger or weaker" -- which, in your own words, would seem "illogical in the extreme" "
Well argued! I applaud your observational skills and insights.
The statement was not made with the claim that the power mentioned was therefore greater than any male 'power', but in respect to our species as a whole. I full well realize that we males contribute to this in our own manner, such as the previously-mentioned protection and honour towards the female. It is the combination of the contributions of both that enable such a power, but it is not done so to the detriment of any male strengths. Quite the contrary; the male does not bear the child, the female does. However, at this stage the female is completely unable to defend herself and requires someone else to do this for her. Does that mean that the male is therefore more powerful than she? Not in the slightest. He instinctively knows that he must defend and provide at this time more than any other if the child (and mother) are to survive. It is not a contest, it is life. Too, the nurturing and instruction of the child until it reaches adulthood is given to the female, because the male is bigger and stronger (in our species) and better able to go out into the world and fight for what is necessary for their survival.
"My point here is that, as you also stated: "We males entrust our offspring into your care, and set ourselves to providing and protecting for you..." Yet, both generally and specifically, a woman's influence can be greatly undermined or even forbidden by men's lack of support, lack of protection, antagonism, etc. In the end, this female "greatest power imaginable" is still proven to be interdependent on the male...still proves out the necessity to blend the two seperate parts into an effective whole. I would argue that it is the combined, effective whole that is truly "the greatest power imaginable." "
Hmmm. Your argument could also be made: 'since the male provides the seed necessary for the formation of the child, the "greatest power imaginable" is in actuality an unavailable power without the male's contribution.' How far should we reach? If the female was sickly, and unable to successfully bring the pregnancy to fruition, it is in actuality 'health' that provides that 'power'. If the female's parents did not properly instruct her in successful child-rearing techniques, then the chances that the offspring will actually reach adulthood are very slim, and therefore 'successful child-rearing instructions during the mother's childhood' is what provides that 'power'.
Scientists today can tell us specifically what makes up our physical bodies, the chemicals and elements and percentages therof that go into our physical formation. That does not mean that they can combine those ingredients in a bathtub and create life. Women hold their ultimate power due to many contributing factors, including male ones, but it is they who actually wield it.
" "Vast majority of males" is an impressive total, I must say. Females aren't completely unrepresented in sharing or striving for those hopes. Chin up! Perhaps we may find a way to come together and turn the tide before too long. For our future's sake, I sincerely hope so!
Indeed, the representation of females with this hope is what I am searching for -and one of the main reasons your captivating commentary is so fascinating to Me. You and I are alike in our hopes for the future in this regard, and I hope that this attitude will penetrate more and more into the general populace so that our destiny is the better for it. (are you blushing yet, lass? If not, I shall simply have to try harder) *smile*
Yes, I could have pulled out that argument next.;)
I don't think I'm attempting to reach, really. Merely attempting to stay firmly on the truth of how the male/female power intertwines.*S*
You and I are alike in our hopes for the future in this regard, and I hope that this attitude will penetrate more and more into the general populace so that our destiny is the better for it.
A hearty bump to that. And a promise to do my share!
Very best regards to you.:-)
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