Was Patriarchy a Women's Scheme to Control Men?

self | 10/30/2002 | SauronOfMordor

[sonserae]

Too late...I saw it...You were cruel enough.

[Rytwyng]

Too late...I saw it

I am genuinely sorry about that.

I hoped to get the original post deleted, then come back later and communicate some of those thoughts to you in a gentler way, along with some constructive suggestions on how to find/identify the decent guys you've been overlooking. But you probably don't want to hear it, now.

Part of what set me off is that I was repeatedly rejected, for years on end, by women who fit your profile very closely and made all the same complaints you do. But I should have approached it with more of an attitude of "I can help", rather than an angry defense of the overlooked nice guy.

FYI, I wasn't bragging about my "virtues" to make myself look good, only to point out that decent men are often overlooked. Those comments should be understood it that context only. Part of why I wanted the post deleted is because I realized afterward how it sounded... bleechh.

[sonserae]

No worries...
Don't bother on the advice.
I officially give up.

[BuddhaBoy]

I officially give up.

Joined the club, eh?

[right2parent]

Law guarantees that a woman is more than a pleasure item? Well, why not require a minimum IQ? Minimum bust size?

Relax, I said women are "more than pleasue items", which is all they can be under a matriarchal system. The law is what the people say (within the constraints of the constitution), not what some judge says, and it is there to protect our system of government (patriarchy). A judge's creative interpretation is called legislating from the bench. That's not to say there aren't alot of bad decisions made. But, they are appealable.

I'm not bitter. I have had joint custody of 2 for 8 years. The problem is, no fault divorce gave me no guarantee she would not abandon the family. I didn't know anything at about my rights at the time. I'm trying to help others understand what's happenned to our society.

The pushy broads don't make the rules, the stupid or corrupt lawyers help them "skirt" the rules.

[sonserae]

Thanks to you.

[Desdemona]

Relax, I said women are "more than pleasue items", which is all they can be under a matriarchal system.

Explain, please?

A judge's creative interpretation is called legislating from the bench. That's not to say there aren't alot of bad decisions made. But, they are appealable.

I'm no lawyer, but isn't bench law still law until it's either overturned or legislated out?

The problem is, no fault divorce gave me no guarantee she would not abandon the family.

Ummmm, hasn't family abandonment been a problem forever? I can name a few abandonments in my own family.

The pushy broads don't make the rules, the stupid or corrupt lawyers help them "skirt" the rules.

But, if the pushy broads weren't there, would this skirting happen? Squeaky wheels get the oil. What I don't like is when men try to exercise their rights and are labelled as causing trouble. That shouldn't be. Especially when the woman initiated a split without cause.

[Desdemona]

Relax, I said women are "more than pleasue items", which is all they can be under a matriarchal system.

Explain, please?

A judge's creative interpretation is called legislating from the bench. That's not to say there aren't alot of bad decisions made. But, they are appealable.

I'm no lawyer, but isn't bench law still law until it's either overturned or legislated out?

The problem is, no fault divorce gave me no guarantee she would not abandon the family.

Ummmm, hasn't family abandonment been a problem forever? I can name a few abandonments in my own family.

The pushy broads don't make the rules, the stupid or corrupt lawyers help them "skirt" the rules.

But, if the pushy broads weren't there, would this skirting happen? Squeaky wheels get the oil. What I don't like is when men try to exercise their rights and are labelled as causing trouble. That shouldn't be. Especially when the woman initiated a split without cause.

[Desdemona]

Sorry for the double post. FR is really slow this afternoon. OTOH, I'm getting a lot of studying done.

[Tusitalia]

Have you read (as I would suppose) George Gilder's MEN AND MARRIAGE?

"In patrilineal societies, men tend to be confident that the children of their household are theirs, and take an active role in their upbringing. The men also tend to perform long-range planning, and invest time and effort into making life better for their offspring...

"In the developing matrilineal societies in our inner cities, the defining characteristic is that males have no permanent attachment to the children they father, nor to the women who are the mothers of their children. In such an environment, males tend not to make long-range plans for the well-being of their children, nor do they make much effort to create the institutions that would be needed for long-term stability and prosperity."

[sonserae]

This poem sums up what I desire in a partner...Maybe someone else can relate...maybe they can't...

The Invitation

It doesn't interest me what you do for a living
I want to know what you ache for
and if you dare to dream of meeting your heart's longing.

It doesn't interest me how old you are
I want to know if you will risk looking like a fool
for love
for your dreams
for the adventure of being alive.

It doesn't interest me what planets are squaring your moon...
I want to know if you have touched the center of your own
sorrow
if you have been opened by life's betrayals
or have become shrivelled and closed
from fear of further pain.

I want to know if you can sit with pain
mine or your own
without moving to hide it
or fade it
or fix it.

I want to know if you can be with joy
mine or your own
if you can dance with wildness
and let the ecstasy fill you to the tips of your
fingers and toes
without cautioning us to
be careful
be realistic
to remember the limitations of being human.

It doesn't interest me if the story you are telling me
is true.
I want to know if you can
disappoint another
to be true to yourself.

If you can bear the accusation of betrayal
and not betray your own soul.
If you can be faithless
and therefore trustworthy.

I want to know if you can see Beauty
even when it is not pretty
every day.
And if you can source your own life
from its presence.

I want to know if you can live with failure
yours and mine
and still stand on the edge of the lake
and shout to the silver of the full moon,
"Yes."

It doesn't interest me
to know where you live or how much money you have.
I want to know if you can get up
after a night of grief and despair
weary and bruised to the bone
and do what needs to be done
to feed the children.

It doesn't interest me who you know
or how you came to be here.
I want to know if you will stand
in the center of the fire
with me
and not shrink back.

It doesn't interest me where or what or with whom
you have studied.
I want to know what sustains you
from the inside
when all else falls away.

I want to know if you can be alone
with yourself
and if you truly like the company you keep
in the empty moments.

[BuddhaBoy]

Thanks to you.

I am honored.

Seriously Sonserae, its only going to get worse before it gets better. Did you happen to read the link I posted to whats going on down under?

I know you dont want MY advice, but I'll give it anyway. If you think more about FUN with respect to men, and less about what is a suitable long term mate, your prospects may brighten.

Men can sense a woman with an agenda from miles away. That doesnt mean you need to be ready to bed down with villians like me, but you can still manage to have a good time without scaring men away.

It's worth what you paid for it, but good luck anyway.

[BuddhaBoy]

This poem sums up what I desire in a partner...Maybe someone else can relate...maybe they can't...

Now, you see? That's what I mean.

If you go into dates leading with an attitude like that poem, you might be lucky to get so much as a ride home.

SHIVER, SHIVER

Guys want to know if you can toss back a beer, root for the *right* team, laugh your ass off, and not get bent out of shape if he glances at another women for half a second.

A FUN girl.

Once I guy knows you're fun; THAT's when he will start checking out your mind.

[sonserae]

No...I don't want your advice. I'm told I'm very fun and funny...that is not a problem. I do all sports except sky diving...and have so much fun in my life I actually think it would be kind of cool to meet someone I can share the joys with. Unfortunately, the men I've met are cranky, irritable, angry and negative. They don't know what it's like to enjoy the precious moments without griping about something. Agenda never is in the forefront because it only takes a few minutes for me to know they should not be considered for a second date let alone a long term relationship. Now, don't you need to go and give that Buddha statue donut holes and coffee? He's waiting....

[Desdemona]

Lovely poem.

Can't really say anything else. When I find the right one, I'll know. There's really only one requirement - he has to be able to put up with my family and trust me, that isn't always easy.

[BuddhaBoy]

Unfortunately, the men I've met are cranky, irritable, angry and negative.

Hmmm, thats funny. As I read back through the thread, you seem to have provided the bulk of the anger here. I'm having fun. You?

Agenda never is in the forefront because it only takes a few minutes for me to know they should not be considered for a second date let alone a long term relationship.

You see, you really cant learn much about your own navel in a few minutes. You do have an agenda, and a big chip too.

I'm told I'm very fun and funny

That's something the truly fun and funny dont have to be told, and as for precious moments, I would worry first about scaring up some moments.

[sonserae]

Please...I told you I don't want your advice.
You have not made many friends on this thread would suggest you look at your own anger. Don't post me again.

[BuddhaBoy]

Don't post me again.

I rest my case. LOL!

A woman's rule of thumb: if it has tires or testicles, you're going to have trouble with it. -- Unknown

[SauronOfMordor]

Have you read (as I would suppose) George Gilder's MEN AND MARRIAGE?

Nope. Never heard of him. Should I track down a copy?

Actually, the inspiration for my initial article was a comment made by Nick Danger a long while back. I liked it so much I saved it, and then after some discussions with people decided to make an article. Nick's comment was on a thread about the situation in Somalia, and how matrilineal societies tend to not be conducive to building, planning, and investing in the future:

Do you think there is a similarity to those countries where gangs of young men, "Technos", drive pickups with guns mounted in the back, and shoot everyone?

That is the normal state of a matrilineal culture. You can see it in dozens of countries. You can see it in Detroit and Los Angeles. When a society's men do not care about the future, institutional forms of the sort that maintain order and keep things working, either don't develop or break down. The closest thing to "government" in such cultures is a kind of feudalism in which gangs of young men hold sway, usually violently, over whatever territory they can subdue. There is no continuity to this... today's leader is replaced tomorrow by the next jerk with a machine gun. Nor do these "governments" have any purpose except to rape and pillage. The only form of 'order' they provide is keeping rival gangs out of the territory.

This is what human society looks like in the absence of institutional forms of government. And for reasons no one can explain, these forms only develop in cultures where men know who their children are and participate in their upbringing. Raising their own children is what makes men care about the future, and when men care about the future they can do amazing things to make it better. Schools, electricity, running water, roads, sewage systems... all those things are products of institutional forms that never appear in matrilineal cultures. That's why those people all live in mud huts and are constantly migrating to avoid droughts and floods.

It frequently happened that colonial powers from more patriarchal cultures came in and established such institutions. They built roads, schools, and governments. But when the colonial powers pulled out, the institutions collapsed; the underlying matrilineal cultures could not maintain them. There is a message in that for us. But instead of hearing that message, our feminist elites are publishing papers about how fathers don't matter, and how they might even be harmful to children and other living things. Those people are going to send us right back to the mud huts.

22 Posted on 09/21/1999 08:11:15 PDT by Nick Danger (nickdanger@null.net)

[right2parent]

"..a matriarchal system."

Explain, please?

Read the posted article, or download A Case for Father Custody here: http://www.mensdefense.org/Books_MDA.htm

. . isn't bench law still law until it's either overturned . .

Only if it isn't properly challenged.

Ummmm, hasn't family abandonment been a problem forever?

But, it use to guarantee father custody, or be reason for the right to succeed to the mother.

But, if the pushy broads weren't there, would this skirting happen?

If no-fault divorce were repealed, and the natural rights of fathers were respected (or even asserted in court) wives would be less apt to break up a family with a guarantee of custody and support.