[MEGoody]

I don't know about patriarchies or matriarchies. I just know that both parents are essential for kids to flourish.

[Semaphore Heathcliffe]

SoM, thanks for posting this essay. One of the more insightful, thought-provoking articles we've had here in a long time. The thread has me thinking a million different directions at once, so I'll post blurbs when I can.

The firefighter-awareness that swept the nation after 911 was, in all it's grim earnestness, a darkly comic display of the media's realization that, "hey, there are some men under these rocks over here. Have they been here the whole time?" Manly men who like to hang with other men, shooting the breeze, until it's time to put on some heavy protective clothing, ride on a loud fast vehicle to a dangerous situation. Who carry people out of fires and smash down doors with heavy axes. (not necessarily in that order) It was a national swoonfest, "funny" for the fact that it stopped short of stating the glaringly obvious: That this is generally what men are like by nature. The guys who do these jobs now are the exception, rather than the rule, in cities, because cities run more smoothly when everybody goes along to get along. Not exactly the ideal environment for Joe Average Male.

As our society has evolved from agrarian -> industrial -> information-based, the traditional heavy-lifting roles are disappearing rapidly. We are becoming increasingly urbanized, in which environment the traditional gender roles are made almost irrelevant. This environment is the perfect breeding ground for radical feminism, because in this latest paradigm, men really don't matter so much. Men and women can both stand at a cash register, both operate a computer, and both be bureaucrats. In cities the typical male characteristics of self-sufficiency and personal responsibility for family and property are sublimated by reliance on police, pool cleaners, jobs to pay for it all. The qualities that most distinctly define human males as a group are made redundant or irrelevant. Women are freed from their tradional roles of kid-bearer and raiser, housekeeper. They can willfully abandon that natural fit, while men are made to sit in an ill-fitting "Woman" costume and told to be quiet about the discomfort.

[Mamzelle]

The Nez-Perce Indians of the Deep South were also matrilineal, might be an interesting addition to your scholarship. Also, see if you can find George Gilder's "Sexual Suicide." He makes a very linear, rational case that men often become bums without a woman to "work for." (To achieve for, to "grow up" for) That a family makes the man, as well as the man makes the family. The feminists went crazy over Gilder's book...another good reason to read it.

[Fiddlstix]

Bump

[CobaltBlue]

>>Patriarchy literally means “rule by fathers” and is a system where men effectively are in control of property and decision-making.<<

My husband and I make important decisions together because we value each other's insight and wisdom.

Sometimes he's right, sometimes he's wrong. Sometimes I am right, sometimes I am wrong. We discuss things as equals, respectfully.

I don't want to be on a pedestal. I am flesh and blood, I like to work hard, I like to make money and buy nice things for the family. He put me through law school, I put him through graduate school. We take care of each other.

[x]

George Gilder advanced a similar theory thirty years ago and was roundly condemned by the rising feminist movement for it. I believe his book was titled, "Sexual Suicide."

Three comments.

1) It looks like children, and hence the species, are the real beneficiaries of what you're talking about. In any case, it's not clear who benefits and who loses most. It depends on the values one attaches to the freedom of being alone and the opportunities of a possibly fuller life together.

2) If women were the great beneficiaries of patriarchy, it certainly didn't look that way to 20th century females looking back on 19th century male-dominated society. It's one thing to say that a bargain or deal enhances one's power. It's something else to find that, in the name of that one, supposedly good deal, one's freedom to make other contracts or arrangements has been lost. It must be a bit like hearing from the government that the state has so increased one's "positive" freedom of action that there's no reason to worry about losing one's "negative" freedom from the power of the state.

3) Patriarchy was bound to suffer when women started to demand the same individual and "individualistic" rights that men had demanded and enjoyed. Given the growing influence of the idea of equality in other social questions, one couldn't split the polity forever, granting men the full rights of individuals and sheltering women behind ostensibly protective institutions. Whether the change was a good thing or not -- and whether those institutions were truly protective -- are other questions to be decided.

[arthurus]

Good but he wastes his argument by confusing his terms. Where he used "matrilineal" he should have used "matriarchal". Matrilineal refers to how descent and inheritance are reckoned and a matrilineal culture can be patriarchal. The "arch" suffix refers to authority and rule. A patriarchal family is headed by the father even if inheritance is reckoned through the mother.

[Semaphore Heathcliffe]

you might be interested in this thread

[woofie]

I have done my duty and reproduced ...now,I can be devoured like a spider

Woofie (male)

[537 Votes]

In pre-industrial societies, women lacked the physical strength to be hunters and farmers. Marriage seemed a pretty good deal, when the alternative was death by starvation.

In our modern industrial society, where it is possible to earn a living without hard physical labor, women can be much more independent. But I think it's unfair of modern women to look back at patriarchial times and decry them as a conspiracy of men against women. The pedestial is not a bad place to be when there's plowing to be done.

[Tusitalia]

Have you read (as I would suppose) George Gilder's MEN AND MARRIAGE?

"In patrilineal societies, men tend to be confident that the children of their household are theirs, and take an active role in their upbringing. The men also tend to perform long-range planning, and invest time and effort into making life better for their offspring...

"In the developing matrilineal societies in our inner cities, the defining characteristic is that males have no permanent attachment to the children they father, nor to the women who are the mothers of their children. In such an environment, males tend not to make long-range plans for the well-being of their children, nor do they make much effort to create the institutions that would be needed for long-term stability and prosperity."

[Lorianne]

The article makes some good points but omits a vital part. Men and women TOGETHER working toward the future prosperity of the family is what makes a successful society. Notice how societies where there is relative social/economic/political equity between the sexes (Western society) are much more successful and technologically advanced than in societies where this is not the case. So, it is not patrilinear organizatons which produce these results as much as relative egalatarianism and incentives for ALL to invest in the larger community, build lasting institutions and social/economic frameworks .... including but not limited to within their own individual families. Women have no incentive to help create, support and uphold these institutions when they are mere chattel. Hence, we have "backward" societies where this is the case.

[Ippolita]

Very good points check out my post at :

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/956535/posts

You may find it interesting.

[SunkenCiv]

A Blast from the Past. This topic is from 2002. I found it while looking for something else.

Just adding this to the GGG catalog, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.

Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)