[expatpat]

Interesting.

[RobRoy]

Very good! I went to a seminar on "the role of the man in the family" about 12 years ago that talked of this issue. One of the interesting examples/questions he used was: Gentlemen, if your wife is driving down the road and the oil light comes on and she keeps driving, who's responsibility is it when the engine feezes up? Answer: It's your responsibility. Is that a good deal for the woman? You bet. Is it a good deal for you? It just is. But since you're responsible, maybe you will always make sure there is oil in the car so the problem won't occur.

When men understand and TAKE their responsibility which, btw, also implies AUTHORITY, they are empowered to control their own destiny and the destiny of their family. REAL women want exactly that in a man.

[SauronOfMordor]

ping

[weikel]

Bump

[Illbay]

Are unbridled Vanity posts a scheme by Yahoo! to assimilate Free Republic?

[Savage Beast]

Your observations are valid, Sauron.

Furthermore, in contemporary society, men show all the signs of an oppressed minority: lower life expectancy; higher proclivity of almost all diseases; higher alcoholism, suicide, imprisonment, depression, heart attack, hypertension. It is men who die on the battlefields, who are last in the lifeboats, and who stand as the ladies sit.

It can be argued that the toll that stress takes on men, e.g. the heart attacks and early death rates in the corporate world, is the result of the exploitation of the male minority by the female majority.

However, as the father of a daughter and a son, and as someone who loves people, whether they be men or women, I definitely favor a healthy balance. I'm sure you do too.

The best way for this to happen is for government to prevent discrimination on the basis of sex and for society to encourage everyone to pursue happiness in his or her own way.

I think there has been a balance throughout most of the world's history. E.g., when women were not allowed to own property, it was men who died on the battlefields.

I am not disagreeing with what you have said. I'm just making a few observations.

[Centurion2000]

bump .. interesting point and probably correct.

Women flourish where they are treated as people to be put on pedastals.

[Jim Noble]

>>The question I’m putting forth here is: Does the patriarchal/patrilineal system act more to oppress women, or is it actually more a way for women to tap and control male energy?<<

Both are true (your propositions are not mutually exclusive), although I would dispute the term "oppress".

Patriarchy is a mutually beneficial arrangement among men, women, and children which allows civilization to exist and which protects and provides for children.

It requires from all of the participants a certain surrender of self-actualization. This surrender is incorrectly described as "oppression", since the benefits derived over time are greater than that which is given up.

Also, the refusal of consent (in our time, principally by women) can destroy the arrangement, which is also not a feature of oppression as I understand it.

It may or may not be possible to restore patriarchal social relations in our time. The massive amount of angst and unhappiness about socio-sexual relations that is so visible in mass media and on the dating circuit suggests it may be possible, but who knows?

[BuddhaBoy]

Ya know, if only one generation of men would REFUSE to marry, we could probably end Feminism, Political Correctness, and many others of society's ills in less than a decade.

Today, marriage and children are close to a death sentence for a man, and I dont understand why men still willingly walk down the aisle with these pampered, pre-plump princesses.

Men should be holding out for a better deal.

[Teacher317]

Bookmarked and bumped

[Melas]

The problem with your whole line of reasoning is obvious: You examine only the two extreme choices of matriarchy and patriarchy. Although not stated explicitly, you assume that power must be divded along gender lines. I contend that is a completely erroneous assumption.

The old soviet system was oppressive in many ways, one of which was that potential was limited. At a very early age, the future of an individual was determined, and the individual was locked into it. A patriarchy creates exactly such a system for women. From birth, a woman in a patriarchal system has one future, one role, one destiny. No matter how pleasant you percieve that to be for a woman, it is still cage, and no matter how gilded, it remains a cage.

Matriarchal systems are every bit as cruel. From birth, a male child is excluded from the power system, and nothing can change that, for he his male.

Perhaps, just perhaps it's best to leave possibilities open for everyone? Just maybe merit should trump gender? Think about it.

[BikerNYC]

So we really don't choose how we live. This is all about genetics, and evolution, and human nature, and survival of the fittest, and what makes us live longer. We should live how we are programmed to live? Bees live that way, too.

It seems to me that if we decide that another way of living is more desireable, for whatever reasons, our choice, than it is worth living.

[right2parent]

My assertion is that patriarchal society creates an incentive structure that enables women to harness male energy and initiative for the benefit of women and their children.

Including a father in the reproductive system, the family is created and society is civilized. Visit any getto to see the product of a matriarchy. Great post.

[sonserae]

This is a great concept. Wish it was true today. When you go on dates and the man leaves you to walk 6 blocks to your car at night while they pass you in their car, when they don't show any side of being protective of your safety or welfare, it's hard to want to go out with someone a second time. If men actually stepped up to the plate and acted like they cared for and wanted to protect the woman, you would have a lot more women trusting them to make decisions...but because the women get the clear indication that they aren't interested in their well-being, the woman has to take that role just to ensure her own protection and security. I've seen this over and over again.

[sonserae]

This is a great concept. Wish it was true today. When you go on dates and the man leaves you to walk 6 blocks to your car at night while they pass you in their car, when they don't show any side of being protective of your safety or welfare, it's hard to want to go out with someone a second time. If men actually stepped up to the plate and acted like they cared for and wanted to protect the woman, you would have a lot more women trusting them to make decisions...but because the women get the clear indication that they aren't interested in their well-being, the woman has to take that role just to ensure her own protection and security. I've seen this over and over again.

[Ohioan]

Interesting. However, I think that the determinant of whether a Society is Patriarchial or Matriarchial has far more to do with the instinctive orientation of the population involved, than any deliberate weighing of consequences.

Frankly, human Societies vary because humans vary. No two of us are alike--nor are any two ethnicities or races. However, that said, one thing that we all have in common is a sexual nature. Regardless of the preferred structure among differing peoples, the happiness and well-being of all peoples depends upon the common interests of the two sexes. Anything which suggests a war between the sexes--other than as recurring theme for comedy--is a form of madness. From the Creation to the present, we are and will remain completely dependent upon each other--male and female, that is.

William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site

[NEWwoman]

This article is very much in line with a chapter in the late Alan Bloom's book - "The Closing of the American Mind."

Yes, women libbers get there panties in a knot when it is suggested that women are treated as men's property. (I concede that it sounds degrading.) Yet, men tend to take care of their property and are committed to their property.

Frankly, women and children have been harmed when their isn't a committed father in the picture. I know some struggling single mothers and my heart goes out to them and their children. Often, their life does not get easier until they marry or remarry.

[A. Pole]

Bump

[Semaphore Heathcliffe]

bttt

[freedox]

"In a competition between a patriarchal society and a matrilineal society, the patriarchal society will tend to prevail."

Yes it will......because we all know that "Who's your daddy?" is one great line. Pity that it should fall by the wayside.......