[ravinson]

If the party formerly known as "the Democrats" doesn’t like the factually correct "Abortion Party," how about "the Adultery Party"? Noticeably, the only incumbent Republican senator to lose was Tim Hutchinson of Arkansas, who left his wife for a staffer a few years ago. I’m proud to be a member of a party that still frowns on that sort of thing.

The Republicans didn't "frown" on Hutchinson, he won their nomination, right? Also, there are plenty of adulterous Republicans out there (eg. Senator Orrin Hatch) who are just more adept at evading scrutiny than their Democratic friends (eg. Ted Kennedy).

Moreover, being pro-choice is not the same as being pro-abortion. Are the Republicans who believe that adultery should not be a crime "pro-adultery"? Of course not.

Ann Coulter's idiotic piousness hurts Republicans and conservatives. She's reinforcing the stereotype of Republicans/conservatives who are more concerned with Slick Willie's adultery than his lying under oath and to the American people.

[RKV]

Sorry, Ann Coulter does a GREAT JOB. Apparently you have not read her book. You should get your facts stratight before you criticise her.

[johnb838]

It's a risky business, attacking Ann Coulter on Free Republic. Better don that flame-retardant suit.

[Revolting cat!]

Moreover, being pro-choice is not the same as being pro-abortion.

Exactly! Why do you think it's called "choice"? After all, who could be against "choice"? We're all for choice, aren't we? A counseling service for women who have had an abortion advertises its services in newspapers as counseling "after choice". "Choice" is now a word to describe an event! Hurray for euphemisms!

[Cicero]

Moreover, being pro-choice is not the same as being pro-abortion.

It's not? The distinction escapes me. Where have you been the past 30 years? Pro-choice is nothing but a weasel-worded Orwellian obfuscation for pro-abort.

[Lizavetta]

Moreover, being pro-choice is not the same as being pro-abortion.

Oh please. NOBODY, even Gloria Steinem and Molly Yard, would WANT to go through the physical reality of an abortion, or even have their daughters go through the procedure. Nobody is pro-abortion, in that sense.

But when you stand by and watch evil happen, even though you personally wouldn't do the evil, you are on the side of evil.

[God is good]

Who is more likely to commit adultury within the week, President Bush or Bill Clinton? Which camp champions the cause of adultury as a basic right?

Go get any 20 Republicans off the street and any 20 Democrates. Then ask each one who is more likely to vote for a candidate based on character.

[churchillbuff]

Moreover, being pro-choice is not the same as being pro-abortion

Of course it does. It means you're in favor of abortions being performed. That's pro-abortion.

[ChiMark]

More left wing lies and hate. The Republicans never made his adultry an issue. And it should've been. He lied under oath, he was held in contempt of court and he is impeached! DuH/ Need a clue?
Stop spreading this left wing garbage.

[PMCarey]

Moreover, being pro-choice is not the same as being pro-abortion. Are the Republicans who believe that adultery should not be a crime "pro-adultery"? Of course not.

I think that the difference is adultery is not a life or death issue. I believe that adultery is wrong but I don't want to government legislating our personal lives. However when I look at abortion I see a life or death issue. If I believe that abortion is a taking of human life, then it shouldn't make any difference whether that life happens to be my own child or yours.

In the same vein, a southern before the Civil War would argue that he (or she) is simply pro-choice. Stephen Douglas certainly made that argument to Lincoln in the Lincoln/Douglas debates. How much respect would such a position get today when slavery is universally viewed as an evil?

Calling it "pro-choice" is not a philosophical decision, but a marketing decision from those who want to keep abortion legal, but don't want to remind people of what the choice entails. Notice that politicians will invariably say "I want to preserve a woman's right to choose", but they never explicitly say choose what. It would drive down their poll numbers to say the "a" word.

[Cymbaline]

"Ann Coulter's idiotic piousness hurts Republicans and conservatives. She's reinforcing the stereotype of Republicans/conservatives who are more concerned with Slick Willie's adultery than his lying under oath and to the American people."

If you think Ann (or any other conservative) isn't concerned with Clinton's lying to the American people you're mistaken.

[God is good]

I will give you one credit, ravison. You are a brave soul for taking up the pro-choice cause on FR, you're likely to find nonconformity of your position all night. No sarcasm intended on the compliment.

[uncbuck]

Adultery and abortion are done for selfish reasons.

Its a sign of a belief system of selfishness.

I agree that the adultery was between him and Hillary, but abortion is evil.
The thought of KILLING our own children makes me sick. Did ya ever think for a second that the dims are trying to ultimately use it as a form of forced population control (ie; socialistic China)? Make it so acceptable that no baby girls are allowed, We need warrior men! (sarcasm)

I once heard an ex coworker of mine say abortion is needed to control minority populations in this country. (Deutchland, Deutchland, uber allis...)

Realise that the abortion issue ultimately comes down to belief in the soul. Believe, then it has to enter at conception, ie; murder.---- Disbelieve, then eating our own children is ok.


It is the downfall of a society founded on the judeo/christian morality that advanced beyond the feudal system.

[Tom Bombadil]

being pro-choice is not the same as being pro-abortion.

True if you are speaking about the laws concerning abortion on the one hand and of one's own personal opinion concerning the act of abortion on the other.

There is a problem however, If you try to enumerate personal moral reasons for opposing abortion, and at the same time try to leave the door open for other people to have a so-called choice. You may in effect be saying that you believe in an objective moral code for yourself while also trying to say that there is no such thing as an objective moral code.

[ER_in_OC,CA]

Ravinson wrote:
"being pro-choice is not the same as being pro-abortion"

Well, certainly you are technically correct at least in how you've phrased this sentence.

A similar "technically correct" turn of the words might be "being pro-choice for Southern farmers to own slaves is not the same as being pro-slavery."

You are correct in drawing the fine line that many who support abortion's legality also would never have their baby vacuumed from their womb "personally."

Similarly, there were probably many people who would have never owned slaves "personally," but thought it best for the country's economy that holding slaves stay legal.

Coulter's point is that one of the Democrats' premier issues is abortion. Not just legal abortion, but legal abortion at any stage during pregnancy, for any age pregnant woman, funded by public money, without any required waiting period, and without any required parental notification, and without any rights for the father.

Because an outspoken number of democrats are "zero-tolerance" of any restrictions on abortion, she chides them by calling them the abortion party.

But now to your implicit point ... which is that "moral values" should not become part of the political scene. I'm I'm wrong as to your POV, please advise. But your comparison of abortion with adultery is a common "both are morally wrong, but I believe neither should be illegal" stance.

Two quick points:

1) Are Abortion and Adultery Equal?

There is enough substantive difference between the termination of a growing, genetically-unique human life-form and a adulterous encouter for each to be looked upon differently by the law. Certainly even the original text of Roe vs. Wade makes this point, stating that the government has a "compelling interest" in regulating abortions at certain stages of foetal development.

Similarly, there are always differences in "similar sounding" actions that result in the law becoming involved. For example, if I send a letter to our President saying "I disagree with you" the law doesn't care. If my letter says "I disagree with you so much I want to kill you," then this letter may be illegal. Both are simple letters, right? But the details of each is substantively different enough to render the "but they're both just letters!" objection weak.

2) Can moral precepts become laws?

You seem to suggest that moral precepts have little relevanct to lawmaking, but certainly a great number of our legal principles in the USA have their basis in moral law.

Certainly not ALL moral principles should become law, but that's up to the judgement of the people and consent of the governed in accordance with our Consitution.

Clearly, today's burden is on us who strongly oppose abortion's current legal status to change hearts and minds in the USA just as abolitionists changed hearts and minds in the 19th century.

But the fact that the word "abortion" is avoided by those who support it's legality is telling that there is room in people's hearts for change.

Why can't people who support abortion's legality say "I'm for abortion remaining legal" instead of substituting the word "choice?"

[Paulus Invictus]

Hatch, an adulterer? Where did you get that infamous lie? The RATS? He is not, never has been and will never be an adulterer. If he had committed adultery, he would never have been elected or if he were practicing adultery now would he ever continue as a Senator from the State of Utah.

[Dusty Rose]

Of course, to be pro-choice is to be pro-abortion. The person who is pro-choice is opting for the death of human life being carried within a woman's womb. The "choice" is to bring forth life or to abort; to abort is to put to death.
Have you ever heard of anyone who is "pro-choice" be "pro-life?" Anyone who talks about "choice" is talking about choosing to deny life to a new baby.

[TigersEye]

Democrat = The Abortion Party

[ladyinred]

Orin Hatch???? Oh do tell, please. Your statement about Pubbies being better at hiding it is ludicrous.

[FITZ]

Ann Coulter's idiotic piousness hurts Republicans and conservatives.

The election kind of shows that Republicans aren't hurt ---not by Ann Coulter's piousness or anything. It's democrats and feminists that seem to be hurt.

[Straight Vermonter]

Moreover, being pro-choice is not the same as being pro-abortion.

Of course no one wants every pregnancy ended with abortion. That would be the "pro-abortion" position. Saying you are pro-choice on abortion is like saying you are pro-choice on shooting neighbors who have their stereo up too loud. It simply is not a choice any of us can be allowed to make.

The whole "choice" thing makes it into an argument over who has the right to choose instead of the correct argument over whether the baby is alive or not.

I assume we can all agree that we do not have the right to choose to kill one another.