Posted on 11/13/2002 10:28:24 AM PST by dark_lord
Yet readers of the articles proclaiming a shortage would be perplexed if they also knew that Microsoft only hires 2% of its applicants for software positions, and that this rate is typical in the industry. Software employers, large or small, across the nation, concede that they receive huge numbers of re'sume's but reject most of them without even an interview. One does not have to be a ``techie'' to see the contradiction here. A 2% hiring rate might be unremarkable in other fields, but not in one in which there is supposed to be a ``desperate'' labor shortage. If employers were that desperate, they would certainly not be hiring just a minuscule fraction of their job applicants.
Here is a table showing the actual number of job applicants hired for a variety of companies:
| American Management Systems | 2% |
| Broderbund Software | 1% |
| Cisco | 5% |
|
|
|
| Cohesive | 2% |
| Datascan | 5% |
| Deltanet | 4% |
| ECbridges | 2% |
| Flashpoint Technology | 2 to 5% |
| R.D. Raab | 1% |
|
|
|
| H.L. Yoh | 4% |
| Inktomi | less than 5% |
| Microsoft | 2% |
| Net Perceptions | 2% |
| New England firm | 1% |
| Qualcomm | 4.5% |
|
|
|
| Radiant Systems | under 1% |
| Red Hat Linux | under 1% |
| Tangis | under 1% |
In other words, there is no shortage of ``bodies,'' i.e. there is no shortage of experienced computer programmers. The problem is that employers are not willing to hire them. Employers are only willing to hire from three narrow categories of programmers:
* New or recent (within a few years of graduation) college graduates, who have cheaper salaries. Note, though, that even among new computer science graduates, fewer than half are hired as programmers.
* Foreign nationals on work visas, who have cheaper salaries.
* A relatively small number of experiencedprogrammers who have background in certain highly-specialized software technologies.
Dr. Matloff says: "Hiring managers have often complained to me that their firm's Human Resources Dept. screens out resume's of applicants who the managers feel qualified. HR apparently decides to screen out the applicants who are too expensive or too old - and then complains that there is a ``shortage'' of applicants...There does seem to be coordination among the HR departments of the various firms. The HR departments of the major firms in Silicon Valley hold monthly meetings, at which the firms exchange information with each other on policy, salaries and so on. (Personal communication from Paul Donnelly, IEEE-USA, June 30, 2000.)...All the firms hire an extremely low percentage of their programming applicants, due to the fact that all the firms overstate job requirements...Almost all firms aim for applicants having three to seven years (or two to eight) of experience."
He says: "It seems safe to say that experience may not be the most valued commodity, according to a survey of 200 IT managers nationwide conducted by InformationWeek Research in May. Though age wasn't specified in the question, only 2% of the managers said they would most likely hire a worker with 10 or more years' experience. Almost half-46%-preferred to hire a worker with four to 10 years' experience, while 26% said they would hire a worker with less than three years' experience, and another 26% wanted an entry-level worker or recent college graduate."
First, if the GOP proves to be as bad for America as the dems,then the independents will come to their own and the two party system will no longer be the American way. Second, I seriously doubt there will be an election for anything in 2004.
What is the most common profession among the lawmakers? Lawyers by any chance?
They ARE being imported as a matter of fact. Perhaps it is when the majority of THEM are out in the street or working at Burger King that we'll see some action.
Unless (as was my case) you were of the very few who spoke English well...
Sadly, you may be right about that..
And if you look at post 49, you'll see that 59% of H1-B physicians and surgeons earn less than $100,000 per year. In fact, the average salary for that group is $53,014.55. Now THAT'S a comforting thought...
The AMA has managed to keep the supply of Doctors in this country to a minimum in order to keep their wages high. I just can not imagine that they will allow this to happen to "their" profession.
It may be time to start pushing him to run for the 2004 nomination. It may put an honest scare into Bush.
And I think you may be right. Look I like Bush but this whole immigration crisis has reached a volatile point.
The negative results and consequences of this unchecked titanic immigration "free for all" is now surfacing everywhere. Many here in Cal saw this coming long ago. It's now crept into every state and continues to hammer hard working American citizens in every corner of this country.
Not to mention the security nightmare that this is creating.
Even if there are "always" a number of unqualified candidates for a given position, there are now also many "qualified" candidates for the same position. Most H-1B positions are not even posted, so I do not think Americans even have a shot at these jobs.
I've always looked for and found unlimited potential . Dam sure is not software .
DCM TECHNOLOGIES LIMITED Wages 60000.00/Y Begin Date 3/30/01 Number of immigrants 30 Job Title PROGRAMMER ANALYST Work State MD Previous wages 53800.00/y
DCM TECHNOLOGIES LTD Wages 100000.00/Y Begin Date 4/5/01 Number of immigrants 30 Job Title SENIOR SOFTWARE ENGINEER Work State TX Previous Wages 71895.00/Y
DCM TECHNOLOGIES LIMITED Wages 60000.00/Y Begin date 4/5/01 Number of immigrants 5 Job Title ACCOUNTANT Work State CA Previous wages 48479.00/y
DCM TECHNOLOGIES LTD Wages 100000.00/Y Begin date 4/5/01 Number of Immigrants 30 Job Title SENIOR SOFTWARE ENGINEER Work state MA Previous wages 62100.00/Y
DCM TECHNOLOGIES LTD Wages 100000.00/Y Begin Date 4/5/01 Number of Immigrant 30 Job Title SENIOR SOFTWARE ENGINEER Work State TX Previous Wages 82292.00/Y
Now with this we see 4 on the same date, and one set that would SEEM to be a duplicate (same job, same wages, same state) UNTIL you get to the previous wages. Notice we also don't have any in AZ and it was the 4 that showed up in my Zazona search in Tucson that started all this. This is starting to look good for DOL and bad for Zazona. Unless you did a different search, I just plugged "DCM Technologies" into Employer Names Beginning With and left everything else blank.
So much for you leaving this in the old thread.
then I was all but obsolete...
then I went into Operations for 2 years...
now I am in the AFL-CIO...
who knew?... an Independent (leaning right) Labor vote!!
You make the case for importing 100% of software people from India -- they are more polite and modest! Your attitude is toxic -- the kind that destroys many projects. Instead of trying to see what the other fellow understands, and how it relates to your understanding you get out there finding any little prideful thing to knock him down with. With gusto and "joy"! It's sick, man! And it makes you and everyone who every taught you, mentored you, worked with you look small and petty for it. Have a care, man!
For all the good stats that show how this law has been abused and how the software talent market is flooded with illegally certified aliens, you have more then made the case that over-the-line abuse of H1B is a good thing, for busting up all the stupidly myopic arrogant and rude attitudes such as you have shown.
I despise "technical" -- vain tech, blabber tech, I call it -- attitudes like you have shown here, and have had too many good projects and jobs ruined due to them -- due to jerk attitudes of the like you have shown.
It's a damnable arrogance -- founded in meaness and ignorance for the sake of vanity. There's no real wisdom in it.
It's really beneath your level. Do stop it and show some respect to others for gosh sakes.
Is this an assumption on your part? Most people do not put their salary requirements on their resume so how would you know they are too expensive? A lot of laid-off experienced engineers may not be as expensive as you think.
Regarding the posting of H-1B jobs, my gut feeling (I may be wrong) is that if a company wants to hire an H-1B for a job they most likely do not even bother looking at the American labor pool. They simply go to an immigration attorney and put in a request for an indentured servant.
Or better -- get humble and try appreciating what the other guy has to say.
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