Party ponders direction - Defeat triggers debate among Mass. Democrats

Boston Globe ^ | November 25, 2002 | Brian C. Mooney

[Cincinatus' Wife]

After a crushing loss Nov. 5, conservative and liberal Democrats in Massachusetts are scrapping over control and direction of their party.

In an ostensibly Democratic state, four consecutive Republican triumphs in gubernatorial elections have set off the new clash. At a Democratic State Committee meeting last Wednesday in Southbridge, the big tent of the party was swaying as activists from both sides engaged in sharp debate over the party's course.

[Cincinatus' Wife]

....but he will have to literally start from scratch. Not an easy task at all.

Then he better begin. I wonder how long, strong George W. Bush coattails will help with a steady conversion.

[Cincinatus' Wife]

....The only way these folks could be converted to Freepers would be for the Rats to....

Freepers come in all shapes and sizes, no lock-step on this site. It's nice to feel the Dems squirm. They see dark clouds and that's encouraging..

[johnny7]

Yea... they're MADEMS. They always vote after 10:00 PM to give you a screwing.

And it's always on a Friday night... by Monday, the sheep are at work and docile.

They say there isn't enough revenue to support their idiotic programs and the suckers buy it.

Hey... I blame the voters. Stupid is as stupid does.

[Cincinatus' Wife]

I love watching them self destruct before my eyes.

The 2004 Democratic Presidential Convention will be held in Boston. It should be great theater.

[Centaur]

they're MADEMS. They always vote after 10:00 PM to give you a screwing.

asking for $$ after a screwin'.....guess the term works on many levels....lol

[Jason Kauppinen]

Why do you bother to stay in Mass. ?

[Mr_Peter]

Because we're on the ocean. The skiing is only an hour away. Boston is a great city. It is LA, without the great weather and the smog. It's expensive, but that's because too many people want to live here.

That said, the politics stink.

[jalisco555]

That will be the task of the new commission, chaired by state Senator Guy W. Glodis, a conservative from Auburn; Senator-elect Jarrett T. Barrios, a Cambridge progressive; and a woman to be named later, possibly Somerville Mayor Dorothy Kelly Gay.

Sheesh, no wonder the Dems are losing. Talk about mindless identity politics. I guess anyone with two X chromosomes will do. Liddy Dole, maybe, or Imelda Marcos?

[goldstategop]

Yup. Must be why Massachusetts west of Boston is crawling with Indies where Rats should be.

[Media Insurgent]

Goldstategop, you are absolutely right about all the independents west of I-495. It would be a mistake for the GOP to write off Mass. Outside of Boston, Cambridge, Northampton & a few other liberal enclaves, this state is crawling with "Reagan Democrats" and all those independents. Many of them are very conservative and are just Democrats because their parents were. With some time, patience and hard work the Republican party could win a lot of these people over.

The biggest problem that the state GOP has here is hat those Republican governors we keep electing, don't stick around long enough to build anything upon their success. Weld never took the job seriously and now he's off in the private sector out of state. Celucci left half-way through his term to become Bush's ambassador to Canada. Swift is an incompetent benchwarmer in way over her head. Romney looks like the kind of guy whose executive experince could really turn things around for the party. Unfortunately he also looks like the kind of guy who could be very appealing on the national scene as well, leaving us back at square one once he departs for greener pastures.

The good news is, that even if Romney leaves, we should keep winning the governor's seat so long as the dems continue to run charisma-challenged party hacks like O'Brien.

[fieldmarshaldj]

"MA Dems....MADems? you may have coined a new one there...."

*snicker*

[fieldmarshaldj]

"MA Dems....MADems? you may have coined a new one there...."

*snicker*

[fieldmarshaldj]

We can't really look at top-down solutions here, that will only help with retaining the Governorship, it's not helping down to the precinct level. The grassroots of the party is either rotted or non-existent and has to be wholly rejuvenated. Until that can be fixed, and new initiatives made to bring social conservative Democrats and mesh them with economic conservative Republicans, the party ain't going nowhere.

[Lancey Howard]

The debate: Should the party resolve that it will try to appeal to ''moderates'' and ''mainstream'' voters? Indignant liberals, including one gay and two African-American members, rose to strike those words, saying it would signal an abandonment of principles, a retreat to the political center, and might open the door wider for the fledgling Green Party. They prevailed. ''Moderates'' was deleted and ''mainstream'' became ''all voters.''

Wow. Great post. Bookmarked.

"To win elections, you can't win just with the communities of color or just the gay and lesbian community, but you can't win without them."

LOFL!!! Sounds like a real pickle.

"We will not be looking just to the right or just to the left. ... We'll look at our message, our messengers, and to whom we are sending the message..."

Translation: "We have to do a much better job of lying, and we need some real smooth liars."

[Lancey Howard]

:"MA Dems....MADems? you may have coined a new one there...."

My relatives in Maine call people from Massachusetts "mass-holes".
Of course, Maine is no great shakes either.

[fieldmarshaldj]

"The biggest problem that the state GOP has here is that those Republican governors we keep electing, don't stick around long enough to build anything upon their success."

Very much true, but no one said it would be easy. It's practically to the point there as where the southern states were in the 1940s or 50s (minus the Governors).

"Weld never took the job seriously and now he's off in the private sector out of state."

But he sure as hell took seriously in driving conservatives (whom he hated more than Democrats) out of the party apparatus, inflicting more damage in his 6 years in office than the Dems did in 25 previous years. Mike Dukakis did more for the state GOP than Weld ever did. We can also thank Weld for helping reelect Ted Kennedy over Mitt Romney in '94 (he was a spotlight whore, didn't want it shifting to Mitt -- exactly the kind of person you DON'T want leading a party. We need team players !).

"Celucci left half-way through his term to become Bush's ambassador to Canada."

He didn't want to put in the hard work of party-building, either (especially seeing the legislative numbers sinking to unprecedented lows). It's unlikely he would've won an election outright had the Dems not put up that extremist zealot Harshbarger.

"Swift is an incompetent benchwarmer in way over her head."

She should've been elected to Congress over that Socialist John Olver, instead. She's also similarly done zilch for party-building and had petty vendettas like her predecessor Weld and would have no qualms endorsing Democrats in races where we could win.

"Romney looks like the kind of guy whose executive experince could really turn things around for the party. Unfortunately he also looks like the kind of guy who could be very appealing on the national scene as well, leaving us back at square one once he departs for greener pastures."

An accurate assessment. I'm not sure he realizes just how truly bad a shape the state party is in and how much he's going to enjoy working with a VERY hostile legislature that was counting on Shannon O'Brien to be sitting in the exec. This is why he would've been better off as a Senator serving in his 2nd term now (thanks again to Weld).

"The good news is, that even if Romney leaves, we should keep winning the governor's seat so long as the dems continue to run charisma-challenged party hacks like O'Brien."

Ah, but here's the bad news. Romney picked a HORRIBLE running mate. Kerry Healey is Jane Swift WITHOUT the political experience (she wasn't even capable of winning her own state rep. seat, unlike Swifty). Jim Rappaport would've been a smashing addition to the ticket, and he had the experience, the bucks, and the INTEREST in party building. Seeing Jim get the shaft has not led me to put a whole lot of faith in Romney... If Romney does leave for greener pastures, the Dems WILL crush Healey like an elephant on top of a paper cup, even with your hackiest-hack Dem opponent.

[fieldmarshaldj]

"My relatives in Maine call people from Massachusetts "mass-holes". Of course, Maine is no great shakes either."

You are entering another dimension, a dimension not of sight and sound, but of the mind. You are entering....The Baldacci Zone...

*distant screams of horror*

[Media Insurgent]

"Jim Rappaport would've been a smashing addition to the ticket"

I agree 100%. I voted for Rappaport in the primaries and was disappointed and a little shocked by his poor showing. Romney's championing of Healey/cold shoulder to Jim was surprisingly effective.

Healey doesn't show me much. She seems like the kind of bland patrician do-gooder who should be heading up some non-profit agency instead of running for elective office. Oh well, maybe at the very least she'll be able to avoid embarassing herself the way Swift always seemed to.

"If Romney does leave for greener pastures, the Dems WILL crush Healey like an elephant on top of a paper cup, even with your hackiest-hack Dem opponent."

So what you're saying is that will finally be Tom Birmingham's big chance?

[thedilg]

"Catholics? HA! Rare breed up here... the old ones always vote dem. This state is run by Kennedy and the unions."

Thanks for your reply. I posited the idea that MA would vote more pro-life if the Catholic leadership became more orthodox. I infered that Cardinal Law would soon be replaced as the info of his corrupt leadership becomes public.

If I understand you properly you are saying that it won't make a difference. Basically there are only old Catholics who vote Dem. Younger Catholic people don't exist or if they do they ignore the tenents of their religion. If I am any near correct I am terribly depressed.

Godspeed, The Dilg

[fieldmarshaldj]

"I agree 100%. I voted for Rappaport in the primaries and was disappointed and a little shocked by his poor showing. Romney's championing of Healey/cold shoulder to Jim was surprisingly effective."

I was very shocked myself at that margin for Healey, though I guess the primary voters bought into the line that putting two rich white guys on the ticket might turn off people in the general. Apparently Mitt hasn't taken a look at the ENTIRE Congressional delegation lately.

"Healey doesn't show me much. She seems like the kind of bland patrician do-gooder who should be heading up some non-profit agency instead of running for elective office. Oh well, maybe at the very least she'll be able to avoid embarassing herself the way Swift always seemed to."

I wouldn't bet the farm on the latter. But, for heavens sake, Romney should've at least picked a running mate (if it wasn't to be Rappaport) who could at least win their own friggin' balliwick for a race as insignificant as State Rep !

"If Romney does leave for greener pastures, the Dems WILL crush Healey like an elephant on top of a paper cup, even with your hackiest-hack Dem opponent."

"So what you're saying is that will finally be Tom Birmingham's big chance?"

I'm kinda hoping for a comeback by John Silber. Now he would've been a GREAT Governor. Somebody who would've simulataneously pissed off most of his fellow Dems AND the RINOs. It doesn't get any better than that !