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Bush to announce plan for smallpox vaccinations
CNN ^ | Tuesday, November 26, 2002 Posted: 1:29 AM EST (0629 GMT) | From Elizabeth Cohen and Ann Curley

Posted on 11/26/2002, 7:27:34 AM by Cinnamon Girl

Edited on 4/29/2004, 9:01:42 AM by Jim Robinson. [history]

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush is expected to announce a plan in the next few weeks to vaccinate 500,000 health workers for smallpox, followed up by a second wave of vaccinations for 7 million to 10 million other health workers, firefighters, police and first responders to protect them against bioterrorism, an administration official told CNN Monday.


(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


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It's all so weird. A few years ago, a top doctor in the U.S. was explaining how smallpox was kept in a vault and there had been an international discussion about whether to destroy it or not, and it was decided that, for various reasons, bio-terrorism being one, we would keep in on hand, just in case.

It has such a history in America, of wiping out scores of people. People in the colonial period used to put a white flag on their house to indicate if they were infected with smallpox (or something like that.)

1 posted on 11/26/2002, 7:27:34 AM by Cinnamon Girl
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To: Cinnamon Girl
There are two things that really scare me. The first is mandatory "vaccines", the other is Hillary!.
2 posted on 11/26/2002, 7:42:59 AM by DBtoo
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To: DBtoo
I should add, I think that both of those two things could very well end up going hand in hand.
3 posted on 11/26/2002, 7:45:13 AM by DBtoo
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To: aristeides; thinden; honway; kcvl; Shermy; Nogbad; Mitchell
It sounds like the vaccination will be voluntary, at least at first, among health care workers.

Also, I note that they are asking for the states' mass vaccination plans to be completed by Dec. 1st. It will take some time to review and coordinate them, so it doesn't sound to me like we'll be hearing any war drums until sometime after Jan 1.

Since they are talking about voluntary clinical trials for the public, the expected war date may be further away than that.

4 posted on 11/26/2002, 7:57:04 AM by Lion's Cub
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To: Nogbad
intelligence officials have said they believe Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has stores of the virus.

This is the first admission I have seen in print, although it could be readily assumed from the fact of the British as well as us being up and ready to vaccinate their whole populations now.

Have you ever seen this statement before. "Have said"...when did they say this before? Before it was also might, maybe, possibly....

5 posted on 11/26/2002, 7:58:16 AM by patriciaruth
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To: Cinnamon Girl
Do you remember shortly after 9/11, people started talking about smallpox and how the terrorists could use it as a weapon, and our gov. was lamenting the fact that all the vaccine supplies for smallpox were gone since they were no longer needed?

Then a few weeks later, there was a small blip on the news that said a small amount of smallpox vaccine was found stored away in a lab, and this was good news because more vaccine could be made from it. I believe I heard it on CNN over a year ago. I found it odd somehow. It's strange for a lab to have material sitting around for years with no one knowing. Everything is suppose to be properly labeled and documented.

6 posted on 11/26/2002, 8:00:57 AM by DBtoo
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To: DBtoo
Relax, DB, if you're not in the Armed Services you aren't going to be forced to take this vaccination.

If smallpox hits, just don't try to run a quarantine blockage without expecting to show proof of vaccination.

Just post a white flag on FR when you come down with it, so we can go later and find your body and give it a proper burial.

7 posted on 11/26/2002, 8:01:09 AM by patriciaruth
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To: Cinnamon Girl
They are following the Israeli example. The smallpox vaccinations of health care workers have had no bad side effects over here because they can screen out any potential risks knowing the medical history so well for the individuals. Those with related alergy problems are skipped over, drasticly reducing the chances of a bad side effect.

If smallpox hits the fan, having the health workers immunized will buy us time to distribute the vaccine without having the health care workers being the actual vector. It could save tens of thousands of lives as the vaccine takes a bit of time to produce immunity. If you contracted smallpox from the health care worker as you got the vaccine you would die of smallpox before you got immunity to it from the cowpox. Without this step, the vaccine centers themselves could spread the disease as they attempted to stop it.

With this step we are much more ready to handle a problem if it developes. The distribution of the smallpox vaccine will now be a lot safer.

Pre vaccinations of the entire populace works very well to beat the smallpox but it is at high risk of causing problems in itself. This way we can administer the vaccine safely only if it turns out we need to. Meanwhile our scientists are working overtime to create a better vaccine that produces less side effects.

Good move!
8 posted on 11/26/2002, 8:03:45 AM by American in Israel
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To: Lion's Cub
Of course, they could be waiting to see if the vaccine even works before they go to the trouble of vaccinating the general public...

Overall, I think this is probably the best plan they could have come up with.

9 posted on 11/26/2002, 8:04:20 AM by Lion's Cub
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To: DBtoo
It's strange for a lab to have material sitting around for years with no one knowing.

Sometime I'll have to tell you the story of what happened to the frogs in a lab I worked in during the sixties that used to be used for pregnancy tests before we had the serological tests for HCG.

10 posted on 11/26/2002, 8:04:31 AM by patriciaruth
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To: Lion's Cub
the expected war date may be further away than that

The date of the war isn't necessarily up to us.

11 posted on 11/26/2002, 8:13:11 AM by Mitchell
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To: patriciaruth
frogs?? ... I thought it was the rabbit

As for the vaccination plan .. it seems to be a good one at the moment

12 posted on 11/26/2002, 8:13:18 AM by Mo1
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To: Cinnamon Girl
Ever since I first read Demon in the Freezer by Richard Preston, back in 1999, I've been waiting patiently to get my shot. As soon as they make it available, I'll line up, I'll pay. I had one when I was a kid, and it didn't hurt me. I want another one now.

(This article was posted in Free Republic about a year ago. But the posts aren't much to read. A long argument against someone called "blue buttercup" whose posts have all been deleted by the moderator. There is one gruesome photo, in post #5. There are plenty of other graphics on the net, including a sampling at from CDC.)

I don't think the chances of smallpox are high, but I do think they are real. And against what I view as the vanishingly-small risks of vaccination, I want my shot, and I'll take it as soon as it becomes available to me.

13 posted on 11/26/2002, 8:13:49 AM by samtheman
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: DBtoo
I also found that strange.... I worked in a laboratory for 31 years.... things were documented...labeled...inventory was done yearly....MSDS for disposal. I find it very hard to believe the vials just surfaced one day from a freezer.
15 posted on 11/26/2002, 8:17:33 AM by Capt_Hank
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To: Cinnamon Girl
I would infer from this that the intelligence assessment is that Saddam probably does not have access to smallpox virus. And my judgment would be that is a correct assessment. I think the smallpox thing was bandied about because (a) you can never be too careful, and (b) if they said "anthrax," everybody would soon cotton on that Saddam kicked us in the nuts on 9/11 and still has us by the short and curlies.
16 posted on 11/26/2002, 8:37:58 AM by The Great Satan
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To: patriciaruth
Sometime back in the 1970's (pre-Saddam)
the WHO told various countries
(Iraq was one of them)
to destroy their smallpox samples.

But of course there is no way to be certain this was done.

Presumably that is what officials are concerned about.

17 posted on 11/26/2002, 8:43:48 AM by Nogbad
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To: The Great Satan
Its the North Koreans who have weaponized smallpox plus ballistic missiles. Remember the Axis of Evil? It's real.

And the article above was wrong about the kill rate of smallpox. The weaponized smallpox (courtesy of the Russians) is Indian I variola, and has a kill rate of 50%. That means half of everyone who contracts it, dies.

The Russians got the variola in an epidemic raging through India in 1967, an epidemic which killed many, many people.

18 posted on 11/26/2002, 8:54:52 AM by goody2shooz
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To: Cinnamon Girl
Nothing I read about this issue leads me to drawing a conclusion as to how I feel about this issue. Part of me says it is the government doing its job, protecting me from a real awful health threat. Another part says the potential of this becoming a forced program and in the future under the wrong leadership having science-fiction like uses against the population is real.

When I am not able to draw a conclusion, I'm going to ask questions. Here are some (I don't expect answers from any one person, of course)

That anthrax didn't spread, and indeed that vaccine might have been part of the problem for those who died. How do we know how smallpox (and the vaccine) will affect the public after so many years? Would this be a mutated form of the disease, altered so the vaccine makes it worse? How do we know terrorists aren't involved in its production or distribution?

Is this a sideshow? Those terrorists in the planes never should've been in the country since they weren't doing what they were given permission to be here for, and some were past the allotted time on their visas. First things first...and that means the borders. Right now a maniac could just walk infected people across the porous borders. But for some reason the borders aren't an issue to elected officials.

Where could this go? After 911, I don't trust anyone's crystal ball. In the wrong hands, the possibilities are chilling. The Homeland Security Bill has a lot of provisions we don't yet understand. We don't know what was snuck in there (as happens with all government programs). A lot of people are going to be given new responsibilities. How do we know there won't be some power-hungry types who won't misuse their new powers?

What about other diseases? Is the government really as focused on Sadam and smallpox as it appears to be? That would be giving other nutcases who don't like us a real big window of opportunity to act.

I'm nervous about both those people who "know" there's nothing wrong with these homeland security provisions and those who "know" that our democracy has been decimated by this bill. Another thing that makes me nervous is that most people don't question the erosion of freedoms; are they substantive or just necessary in our technological world? It seems that most people are too busy or too trusting or too clueless or too programmed to consider stuff that's happening. And you know what? That's what makes me the most nervous.

So folks, keep posting. But it'll be a long time before I'm comfortable being either for or against these events. But dialogue is a real necessary step.

19 posted on 11/26/2002, 9:21:27 AM by grania
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To: grania
How old are YOU ? The government demanded that everyone be vacinated against smallpox, until 1972. Did that and the other required vacinations take away everyone's freedoms ?

Would you rather get smallpox , should there be bioterrorism ?

How about polio ? Are you old enough to remember what it was like, prior to there being a vacine ? If you aren't that old, then take it, from someone, who was alive back then, it was a horrible disease and one, that parents feared, every summer ! What they wouldn't allow their children to do, would amaze you.

Read the Bill; then try to understand, without preconceptions, what it actually says and what it doesn't say.

20 posted on 11/26/2002, 9:27:58 AM by nopardons
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