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France and Germany plan Euro defence union (FOURTH REICH ALERT)
The Daily Telegraph ^ | November 27, 2002 | Ambrose Evans-Pritchard and Toby Helm

Posted on 11/26/2002 5:26:29 PM PST by MadIvan

France and Germany have called for a full European security and defence union, pushing Britain to the sidelines in their latest attempt to revive the Berlin-Paris axis.

In a move that has alarmed the Foreign Office, the two governments have put forward a joint plan for a Euro-army with an "integrated command capability" and a "European Armaments Agency".

The ideas are being portrayed in Paris and Berlin as the product of frustration at Britain's tendency to be the mouthpiece of America on foreign policy issues, rather than looking to Europe.

The Franco-German plan envisages something far more ambitious than the limited peacekeeping and humanitarian missions of the European Union's rapid reaction force of 60,000.

Under the Franco-German blueprint there would be a unified system of military training and a shared strategic doctrine.

The document talks about establishing "multinational forces with integrated leadership capacities, regardless of their Nato actions". It also talks about "harmonising military needs planning".

The proposals, which are to be submitted to the defence working group of the Convention on the Future of Europe, alter the character of EU defence and threaten the current link between the EU's rapid reaction force and the Nato command structure.

The Earl of Stockton, a Tory MEP and a member of the convention's defence working group, said the Government was losing control of the European military project, which it launched with the French at St Malo in 1998.

"If this goes ahead, it will effectively by-pass the joint EU-Nato command and open the way for a total separation from Nato, which is what the French have always wanted, of course," he said.

Crucially, France and Germany say they must be allowed to go ahead with the plans even if other EU nations oppose the idea.

The document proposes letting an advance guard of EU states form their own defence corps, backed by the EU institutions under a mechanism known as "enhanced co-operation".

Decisions would be made on the basis of qualified majority voting, meaning that Britain could not stop the others using the EU apparatus for military purposes it opposed.

In effect, defence would be brought under the Community umbrella, a move that was fiercely resisted by the Government at the Nice Summit in December 2000.

While Britain can still stop such plans being included in the European constitution, the Government will be under great pressure to accept the outcome of the convention next year.

The plans call into serious question Mr Blair's assurances that the EU has no proposals for a European army. It is not clear, however, whether the Europeans have the defence capability to mount a viable operation without British involvement and use of American Nato assets.

The EU lacks heavy-lift aircraft, attack helicopters, fighter/ground attack aircraft, and unmanned drones, and has to rely on American spy satellites for basic intelligence.

The EU already has a military staff headquarters in Brussels brimming with generals and colonels, as well as a crisis control centre and an intelligence cell.

A spokesman for the German foreign ministry said: "We want a greater flexibility so that countries wanting to move ahead should have the freedom to do so. In a possible future union of 25 member countries we cannot allow the slowest one to set the pace for the rest."

The Foreign Office is concerned that under the Franco-German proposals, new structures would be created among a few European Union nations that would be seen as alternatives to those in Nato.

These would then become the embryos for a new European defence structure.


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Germany; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: army; chirac; france; germany; schroeder
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Of course the only EU country that spends enough on defence to have a decent army is Britain. Just more grist for the mill - we should leave the EU immediately.

Regards, Ivan


1 posted on 11/26/2002 5:26:29 PM PST by MadIvan
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To: Delmarksman; Sparta; Toirdhealbheach Beucail; TopQuark; TexKat; Iowa Granny; vbmoneyspender; ...
Bump!
2 posted on 11/26/2002 5:26:51 PM PST by MadIvan
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To: MadIvan
France and Germany have long been selling materials for WMD to Iraq.

They have now revealed themselves to be aligned with the Axis of Evil.

In retrospect, it seems it was truly expected, given WW1 and WW2.

3 posted on 11/26/2002 5:29:41 PM PST by Diogenesis
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To: MadIvan
The insurgent Franco-Prussian Empire is giving up on the EU Reaction Force idea? I guess they couldn't control that forum anymore. Ideas?

Mine: A new Nato with all of Europe, Russia, Turkey, Caucusus, NA --- minus France and Germany. Policy - containment.

4 posted on 11/26/2002 5:30:27 PM PST by Shermy
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To: MadIvan
Can you comment on the rising tide of Anti-Semitism in these two countries and what the two characteristics melding together might mean? 'Pod
5 posted on 11/26/2002 5:30:37 PM PST by sauropod
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To: MadIvan
Ivan:
Here is another bump for a great patroit and a wonderful poster here on Free Republic.

The very best to you and yours.

Semper Fi
Tommie

6 posted on 11/26/2002 5:31:24 PM PST by Texican
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To: MadIvan
It's a materbatory concept. What are the French going to do? Surrender to themselves?
7 posted on 11/26/2002 5:31:41 PM PST by Tribune7
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To: MadIvan
bump
8 posted on 11/26/2002 5:31:42 PM PST by Tired
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To: Shermy
Mine: A new Nato with all of Europe, Russia, Turkey, Caucusus, NA --- minus France and Germany. Policy - containment.

Add Israel and we have a deal.
9 posted on 11/26/2002 5:32:07 PM PST by Sparta
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To: MadIvan
France and Germany plan Euro defence union

The pact will be signed next month in a railway car near Verdun...

10 posted on 11/26/2002 5:32:51 PM PST by Morgan's Raider
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To: MadIvan
A Frog-Kraut alliance?

LOL!!!!!

They'll surrender to each other.
11 posted on 11/26/2002 5:33:40 PM PST by Sparta
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To: MadIvan
Hey France and Germany. Remember the June 4, 1944 thingy. Don't think it could'nt be done again. Big time.
12 posted on 11/26/2002 5:36:06 PM PST by jslade
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To: Sparta
Germany's militance has its own Teutonic logic. But the continuing stupidity of French foreign and military policy, since 1870 anyway, never ceases to amaze.
13 posted on 11/26/2002 5:36:58 PM PST by DWPittelli
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To: MadIvan
It's doubtful whether France and Germany could put together sufficient forces to defend Europe or deal with the Muslims, but they might assemble enough of an army to enforce their latest socialist schemes on smaller European nations. Yugoslavia was a seriously bad precedent. Before NATO went in to bomb Belgrade and invade Kosovo, the NWO people at the Washington anniversary celebration were saying that the member nations of NATO had better stay in line, or NATO forces would be used to enforce the rules.

Just now the Eurosocialists are saying that they regret criticizing Austria over Haider, but the next time who knows what they might do if a smaller country crosses them?
14 posted on 11/26/2002 5:37:19 PM PST by Cicero
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: MadIvan
Just to state the obvious, the ONLY reason that France and Germany want to leave NATO is because they don't see themselves remaining friendly with the U.S. much longer.

And that is all the more reason to transition Russia into full NATO membership as France and Germany transition out of it...

16 posted on 11/26/2002 5:45:41 PM PST by Southack
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To: MadIvan
Neither of these two countries can afford to field an army. They're both buried under tons of debt due to their socialist programs. Of course, the first sign that there's real trouble will be when the governments take over the only producing, profitable companies.
17 posted on 11/26/2002 5:48:05 PM PST by McGavin999
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To: MadIvan
France surrendered to Germany again?

I didn't know they were at war.
18 posted on 11/26/2002 5:52:26 PM PST by uncbuck
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To: MadIvan
Gentlemen, I am Sergeant Clouseau and with Sergeant Schulz will supervise your basic training.

Now, since we can't afford rifles, I want you to yell "bang" very loudly on my command. BANG. Very good. Now, since we don't have any tanks, you will go "vroom vroom" on my command. VROOM VROOM. Very good.

Now you will learn the new Eurosalute. Arms down, thumbs pointed down along the seams of your trousers. On command, lock elbows, rotate both arms 180% over your heads, keeping them fully extended, and uncurl your fingers until they are extended and joined, rotating your hands so the palms are open and facing me. HAND SALUTE! Very good.

The command to return to attention is SURRENDER ACCEPTED!

19 posted on 11/26/2002 5:52:31 PM PST by colorado tanker
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To: MadIvan; jd792; hosepipe; dixie sass; Memother; chesty_puller; mhking; Japedo; madfly; ...
the Berlin-Paris axis of cheese bratwurst Bumps
20 posted on 11/26/2002 5:52:37 PM PST by ATOMIC_PUNK
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