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Kids, guns and Dr. Phil: Larry Elder exposes how pop psychologist distorted firearm statistics
WorldNetDaily.com ^ | Thursday, November 28, 2002 -- Happy Thanksgiving! | Larry Elder

Posted on 11/27/2002 11:17:48 PM PST by JohnHuang2

Move over Mr. Anti-Second Amendment Michael Moore, and make way for Dr. Phil. Dr. Phil recently aired a program in which he staged an experiment to demonstrate the danger of guns in the home. Amid a group of playing little girls and boys, a teacher placed two fake guns inside a dollhouse. The teacher warned the kids not to play with the guns, and then left the room. The mindful girls left the guns alone even after the teacher left the room.

The experimenters took the girls out of the room. The boys promptly began playing with the guns. Dr. Phil came in, warned the boys again, and after eliciting a promise not to play with the guns, which he put on a table, he left the room. Again, the boys promptly began playing with the guns. Moral to the story? Guns in the home and children – especially boys – simply don't mix. Never mind that responsible parents rarely leave guns, let alone loaded ones, inside a girl's dollhouse or on a table near the children.

Dr. Phil said, "America kills more kids with guns than any other industrialized nation," later adding, "There are five children a day killed with guns through either accidents or suicides. Five children a day in America are killed with guns." The five children per day figure adds up to over 1,800 per year.

Hold tape.

Dr. Phil never defined what he meant by "children." Independence Institute researcher Dave Kopel notes that many of the reported gun deaths involving "children" include those aged 14 through 19, many of them gangbangers. If, by children, Dr. Phil meant 10 and under, approximately 50 children – or less than one child per state per year under 10 – die from handgun violence.

Dr. Phil specifically said gun "accidents and suicides." Yet the Center for Disease Control, which tracks all causes of death, reports only 86 accidental deaths in kids aged 14-years-and-under in the year 2000, and 110 suicides, for a total of 198. Not exactly 1,800. (Even if Dr. Phil intended to include homicide and undetermined intent, the total of kids aged 14-and-under killed by firearms in 2000, according to the CDC, was 435.)

By contrast, the CDC reported 943 accidental drownings of kids aged 14-and-under, 593 deaths from accidental exposures to smoke and fire, and 2,591 killed in motor vehicle accidents. Surely one child dying through handgun violence – or any kind of violence – is one child too many, but we should not lose perspective.

Dr. Phil went further. In front of the largely female – and often instinctively anti-gun group – audience, Dr. Phil added this headline, "More children die from gunfire than cancer, pneumonia, flu, asthma and HIV-AIDS combined. Do you know what your child would do if he found a gun and you weren't there?"

Hold tape.

According to the CDC, the annual deaths from cancer in 2000, for children aged 14-years-and-under, was 1,939. Add in the number of 14-and-under who die every year from pneumonia and flu, at 479, plus 169 kids killed by asthma, plus 70 from HIV, and we have a grand total of 2,657, a number higher than Dr. Phil's figure of 1,800 children allegedly killed each year through handgun accidents and suicide.

As usual with programs stacked against guns, Dr. Phil failed to even address the number of children saved by handguns per year. In other words, how many kids remain with us because Mommy or Daddy – or in some cases a child – used a gun to defend the household. According to the Department of Justice, Americans use guns for defensive purposes 1.5 million times a year. And, according to the Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention – a division of the Justice Department – the government found that children taught appropriate use of guns by their parents turn out to be far less likely to use those guns for criminal purposes than those without such instruction.

Recently, in South Bend, Ind., a thug broke into a home occupied by an 80-year-old grandmother and her 10-year-old grandchild. The intruder held a jagged box cutter to the grandmother's neck, at which time the 10-year-old bolted upstairs where he retrieved his father's gun, the responsible use of which his dad taught him. The 10-year-old returned, pointed the gun at the intruder, and shot and killed him. "The young man reasonably believed his grandmother and himself to be in danger of dying," the South Bend police said. "It was clear to us this was a justifiable homicide. He did what he had to do."

Some suggestions: Don't go to your gun store for psychological counseling; and don't go to a mental health therapist for advice on guns.


TOPICS: Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist
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To: Pablo64
I believe it stands for Piled Higher and Deeper.

You are correct. And B.S. stands for Bull S***, while M.S. stands for More S***. The stuff of which Dr. Phil is full.

41 posted on 11/28/2002 5:55:07 PM PST by brewcrew
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To: mhking
BANG! BANG!
42 posted on 11/29/2002 3:40:32 PM PST by mafree
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To: JohnHuang2; mhking
When I regain the ability to write without suffering from a remorselessly insistent urge to endorse extreme and ghoulishly creative violence against Dr Phil, I shall respond to this atrocity in my usual vein. Thanks for bringing it to my attention, mhking.
43 posted on 11/29/2002 10:10:32 PM PST by demosthenes the elder
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To: Vic3O3
I betcha his DR is a PhD (Piled Higher and Deeper) and not an MD.

I'd take that bet. (Based on the M.D.'s who have been involved in past anti-gun "research".)

44 posted on 12/02/2002 4:14:31 PM PST by On the Road to Serfdom
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To: CARepubGal
Oops, maybe I won't take that bet.
45 posted on 12/02/2002 4:16:21 PM PST by On the Road to Serfdom
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To: TomB
Of course the "experiment" is fatally flawed. You don't teach gun safety by telling a child once or twice "don't touch". That is stupid.

Don't be silly. It worked for the "just say no" campaign, the "sex can wait, I'm worth it" campaign, and the D.A.R.E. program. You only have to say it once to kids and they're programmed properly for life... aren't they?

/Lib-Thinktm>

46 posted on 12/02/2002 4:20:51 PM PST by Teacher317
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To: On the Road to Serfdom
LOL! MD's tend to be a bit smarter than Phil.
47 posted on 12/02/2002 7:39:26 PM PST by CARepubGal
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To: JohnHuang2
BTTT
48 posted on 12/04/2002 6:12:54 AM PST by demosthenes the elder
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To: demosthenes the elder
repost from separate thread, same article/topic




I know this is from World Nut Daily, but Larry Elder has always seemed to be a decent guy. Dr. Phil is a clown.
1 posted on 12/04/2002 6:05 AM PST by jjm2111


To: *bang_list

Bang!
2 posted on 12/04/2002 6:05 AM PST by jjm2111


To: jjm2111

this was posted on FR last week.
3 posted on 12/04/2002 6:08 AM PST by demosthenes the elder


To: jjm2111

If you like Larry Elder and don't want to give World Nut Daily any hits, go to Larry Elder, Jewish World Review
4 posted on 12/04/2002 6:10 AM PST by BlueLancer


To: demosthenes the elder; Admin Moderator

My bad, I did a search, but it didn't come up. Admin, if you want to pull it....
5 posted on 12/04/2002 6:11 AM PST by jjm2111


To: jjm2111

Kids, Guns and Dr. Phil

Rats! I was secretly hoping that kids with guns had attacked Dr. Phil. Oh well.
6 posted on 12/04/2002 6:12 AM PST by PBRSTREETGANG


To: jjm2111

everyone does it sooner or later. if you want to add your thoughts to the thread, it is located here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/797341/posts
7 posted on 12/04/2002 6:14 AM PST by demosthenes the elder


To: jjm2111

"...Dr. Phil is a clown..."

A tabloid recently accused him of unscrupulous, even borderline criminal/fraudulent business dealings in his past.

I haven't heard any outraged protests, any threats to sue for libel, from him.

Does anyone know whether these stories are true? Is he no more than a common criminal who simply 'beat the system' who now panders to domestic enemies of the Constitution of the United States?

Enquiring minds want to know.
8 posted on 12/04/2002 6:20 AM PST by DWSUWF
49 posted on 12/04/2002 6:26:30 AM PST by demosthenes the elder
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To: JCG
"Beware of anything told you by psychologists, psychiatrists ..."

Is that anything like:

If it was free then its advice, if you paid for it then its counciling, if you can use either then its a miracle.

50 posted on 12/04/2002 6:47:49 AM PST by gnarledmaw
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To: demosthenes the elder
From the article: Do you know what your child would do if he found a gun and you weren't there?

I'd hope she'd go hunting Dr. Phil...
51 posted on 12/04/2002 6:48:15 AM PST by dyed_in_the_wool
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To: dyed_in_the_wool
surely your daughter has a better sporting ethic than to hunt a crippled and brain-damaged animal?
52 posted on 12/04/2002 7:02:16 AM PST by demosthenes the elder
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To: JohnHuang2
Dr. Phil says five kids are killed by firearms a day in the US? Well, aside from that being total BS, something struck me as odd. I distinctly remember, in the days following Columbine, the anti-gun Commies were saying 13 kids a day died "from guns". Wow...so that means either (1) a heckuva lot fewer kids are being shot today, or more likely (2) these friggin' lying sack of crap Commies are just yanking numbers out of their wazoos. This is typical of liberal scumbags...if you don't have the stats or facts to back up your argument, just make 'em up and hope no one calls you on it.

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

53 posted on 12/04/2002 7:03:29 AM PST by wku man
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To: JohnHuang2
Another episode in "fun with statistics".
54 posted on 12/04/2002 7:26:18 AM PST by jjm2111
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To: wku man
if you don't have the stats or facts to back up your argument, just make 'em up and hope no one calls you on it.

...and shout them down as some form of "-ist" when and if they DO call you on it.

55 posted on 12/04/2002 7:34:38 AM PST by demosthenes the elder
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To: JohnHuang2
Anyone who has met and chatted with Larry, as I have done, comes away with a postive impression. He is an impressive and down to earth guy.
56 posted on 12/04/2002 7:48:00 AM PST by Protagoras
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To: Calpernia

Some good stats here which puts things in perspective. Now let's go license all those who sell and own swimming pools.


57 posted on 03/28/2005 10:57:58 AM PST by Coleus (I support ethical, effective and safe stem cell research and use: adult, umbilical cord, bone marrow)
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To: Coleus

That is an excellent contrast of stats.

I've not noticed a review of the data in article since 1999.


58 posted on 03/28/2005 11:18:19 AM PST by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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