Why Are Black Students Lagging?

New York Times | 11/29/02 | FELICIA R. LEE

[demosthenes the elder]

Please don't take this personally but you're blowing smoke out of your ass.

I do not, because I don't see your point. I stated that I cannot accept the old "poverty" excuse because my personal experience directly contradicts this excuse. Are you saying that I should place more weight on a study than what I myself have lived, or are you saying that I am lying about my origins?

[demosthenes the elder]

other than the gender error, I thank you for your correct defense of my post.

[Fzob]

Sorry about the gender mistake. I have no idea why I thought you were a her.

Regards

[dasein64]

Printed on my mother's fourth grade report card was "Every Catholic Child in a Catholic School". The atmosphere was no-nonsense, do your work and learn. The religous studies expanded vocabularies and thought process to include other than social contemporary exchange of thoughts. She absorbed a sense of patriotism, ethics, charity thru personal application of effort (she had no money to buy off responsibility to others). The teachers at that time saw teaching as a vocation, not a career. They were doing God's work to educate children and steer them towards heaven. Judge Clarence Thomas was sent to a catholic school by his grandparents for all of the above reasons. It does seem that children who attend church run schools have an advantage over secular schools, regardless of race. We can speculate endlessly on the IQ theories, but parents of all races who want the best for their children will find a way to educate them in a non-government school. My parents did it for me and I will do so for my children. Vouchers are the answer for non-discriminate school selection.

[Rocksalt]

" Africa had no written language before the white man, no wheel, NOTHING approaching civilization ANYWHERE, let alone culture or contributions to science, literature, NOTHING."

Is that true? What about the Ethiopian Orthodox church-isn't their bible one of the oldest religious writings and their churchs some of the oldest known?

[rmvh]

re your # 2

Better question:

Why are too few white people starters in professional basketball?...

Are they being discriminated against or is it simply another genetic situation of a reasonable and fair determination of intellect and physical capability....person by person?

[rmvh]

Re your # 46....

Your esay is the typical complaint of the "have nots"....Boo Hoo..I wasn't given a fair chance and so the world owes me all I can get...

Pure B.S.

[rmvh]

Re your #1....The persistent academic gap between white and black students has touched off difficult and often ugly debates over the question why.

Don'T worry your pretty little head about this...The problem is being resolved as the years go by.....We just have to continue to "dumb down" government education for all races so that everyone is a stupid as the lowest common denominator and then the minorities will be happy!

Its PC, don't you see?

[Clara Lou]

I didn't say anything about "unfair." Try not to read more meaning into people's posts than they say. It's simple: People who come from generations of lower-class existence know a different reality (including thinking in a different way) than those of the middle class who know a different reality from those of the opper class. Life is tough. We have to deal with it.
You have a good evening, now.

[mafree]

I live the Washington, DC area. Care to tell me where I can find that bookstore or theater, or opera group that caters to blacks?

Here are several that are in DC: African Continuum Theatre Company, Encore Theatre Company, The Essential Theatre, Hip Hop Theatre Junction, Pin Points Theatre. There is a group in Rockville, MD called the Soul in Motion Players, and there are three more in Baltimore.

Here are some Black Bookstores in the District:

Drum and Spear Books, 556 Varnum Street NW, Washington, DC 20011 202-722-4758, http://www.drumandspear.com

Virtigo Books, 1337 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Washington, DC 20036, (202) 429-9272, (202) 429-9505 Fax

Sisterspace and Books, 1354 U Street, N.W., Washington, D.C. 20009, (202) 332-3433, (202) 986-7092 (fax) sistersp@erols.com

Yawa Books, 2206 18th St. NW, Washington, DC 20009-1813, (202) 483-6805

Now I'll grant you that most Black communities can do a better job of supporting businesses and culture that caters to Blacks- in some places, Black performing artists and groups wouldn't exist without the support they get from other races.

OTOH, you can't tell me that there are no Black cultural outlets. There are- you just won't hear much about them on the 6 o'clock news.

[rmvh]

Re your # 153.... It's simple: People who come from generations of lower-class existence know a different reality (including thinking in a different way) than those of the middle class who know a different reality from those of the opper class. Life is tough. We have to deal with it.

What you say is absolutely true!.....The enviornment we all live in impacts our lives. But this is not a surprising observation.

The only way we can be made to "think" alike is to create a society where everyone has exactly the same enviornment....a concept the communists dearly love.

[demosthenes the elder]

AXUM - a trading and military empire worthy of note. Not my field of study, but IIRC: Developed in the ethiopian highlands somewhere around AD 200 or so, became christian somewhere around AD 400, had cordial relations with Byzantium, had a very far-flung trade network including Arabia and India, perhaps as far as Indonesia and China. Impressive culture, closest analogue being Polis of Sparta. Solid logistical system, strong coinage and numismatic economy. Became isolated by the rise of Islam. The Ethiopian retreat into obscurity did as much as anything else to isolate subsaharan Africa from the development of the rest of the world.

[valkyrieanne]

Why do so many ignore the elephant in the room? Asians average IQ (115), Whites (100), American Blacks (85--given that most American blacks have approximately 20% White inheritance), and African Blacks (70--and 70 is borderline retarded).

I don't believe there's any such thing as a "black IQ" or a "white IQ," because racial categories are extremely unscientific. If you assorted people by 5 or 6 different kinds of blood types (not just ABO, but M, N, and other alleles) you would find a far different racial picture than the one we have that's based on skin color and hair texture.

Similarly, what we call "white" is really a broad group with some significant genetic differences. Some used to matter 100 years ago (like calling Jews a "race" and drawing a distinction between northern & southern Europeans.)

You cannot look at a black child and say, that child isn't going to do as well in school simply on the basis of his race. What you *can* look at are all the things that contribute to success in school, and IQ is just one. Far more important are factors like early childhood language development; are the parents married & stably employed; does the mother provide a language-rich environment for the child?

Obviously this kind of parental preparation of the child for school isn't racially determined - if "African genes" were that determinant, then black children should have far fewer problems with language in school (after all, Africa has been home for centuries to incredibly rich & varied oral language traditions.) White parents who raise their children in dysfunctional families with language deprivation from birth to age 3 show the same problems in school *and* in life.

What we need is an entirely race-blind school system, with every child treated *completely* on the basis of his individual educational needs, NOT on the basis of his race or income level. This means no racism; it also means no affirmative action or other special treatment. It means that teachers need help & support dealing with a *wide* variety of children, not just the "smart" ones. It also means that parents should be held to some pretty basic and minimal expectations, like get your kid to school properly clothed, fed, homework done, on time, etc. No one should be held to a higher OR lower standard because of his race.

[MrB]

From what I've seen of IQ tests, it's basically a ratio of "what you know" divided by "what you should know at your age".

If children are not being taught problem solving skills and/or logical thinking, they are not going to score as well on this test.

I'm not going to say the tests are "culturally biased", but a difference in culture does affect "what you know", and the test may be based on a different cultural "what you should know". Given that this basis is on what is expected in our society, it gives an idea of the ability to succeed. I don't believe it accurately reflects the individual's ability to learn.

The SATs probably are a better assessment in that they determine how well you will perform in a college environment and in society as a whole.

I welcome others' insight on this.