Will the OICW Rifle see combat in Iraq?

strategypage.com ^ | November 28, 2002 | James F. Dunnigan

[VaBthang4]

Will it Work?

New weapons, particularly very different new weapons, have a hard time gaining acceptance among the troops until the new gadget has performed well in combat. As a result, every time the U.S. gets involved in some new war, large or small, there is a lot of pressure from the weapons development crew to get some of their new stuff tried out against a real live enemy. One candidate for this treatment in the coming war with Iraq is SABR (or "Selectable Assault Battle Rifle, otherwise known as OICW or the XM29). This is an over and under weapon with a 20mm computer controlled grenade launcher on top, and a 5.56mm assault rifle underneath. In development since 1994. The weapon has proved it can work, and development is now concentrating on getting the weight down to 14 pounds, and reliability improved to the point where it will keep working under battlefield conditions.

The major question to be answered on the battlefield is whether the heavier, awkward weapon is worth the weight and cost (up to $20,000 each) in combat. The key new feature of the SABR is the ability to fire 3.25 ounce 20mm shells up to 1,000 meters and hit targets in trenches, inside buildings or around corners. Each 20mm round costs $25. This particular magic is accomplished with a computer controlled fuze in each 20mm shell. The infantryman firing SABR can select four different firing modes via a selector switch on the weapon. The four modes are;

"Bursting" (airburst). For this to work, the soldier first finds the target via the SABRs sighting system. This includes a laser range finder and the ability to select and adjust the range shown in the sight picture. For an air burst the soldier aims at an enemy position and fires a round. The 20mm shell is optimized to spray incapacitating (wounding or killing) fragments in a roughly six meter radius from the exploding round. Thus if enemy troops are seen moving near trees or buildings at a long distance (over 500 meters), the SABR has a good chance of getting them with one shot. M-16s are not very accurate at that range, and the enemy troops will dive for cover as soon as M-16 bullets hit around them. With SABR, you get one accurate shot and the element of surprise.

The second mode is "PD" (point detonation), where the round explodes on contact.

Then there is PDD (point detonation delay), where the round detonates immediately after it has gone through a door, window or thin wall.

The fourth mode is "Window", which is used for firing at enemy troops in a trench, behind a stone wall or inside a room. The round detonates just beyond the aiming point. For buildings, this would be a window or door frame, cave entrance or the corner of a building (to get enemy troops thought to be around the corner.)

The 3X site on SABR also has a thermal imaging mode useful at night. In fact, the SABR has a five pound fire control module with a computer as powerful as those found in some laptop computers. The current version of SABR has a lot of adjustments and features the soldiers can play with, too many according to some combat veterans. Again, only combat testing will decide which adjustment features are needed and which are not.

In theory, and so far successfully in tests, SABR would be a very useful weapon for fighting in urban areas, or even forests. What is difficult to replicate in tests is the wear and tear a weapon will receive in combat, and exactly how many situations will be encountered where the troops will end up saying, "it's a good thing we had SABR along." Indeed, the impact on enemy troops encountering SABR for the first time will be demoralizing. Once word gets around that the Americans have a weapon that can get you when you are taking cover in a trench, or around a corner, panic will set in with some troops and entire units may surrender or flee after getting shot up by SABR armed troops. Eventually, however, more experienced troops will learn to deal with SABR.

There have not been any reports of SABR being used in Afghanistan, and it's unknown if any of the weapon will be brought along for an invasion of Iraq. It's likely that the engineers, or combat officers supervising the project, will veto use of the SABR in action this year because it just isn't ready for field use yet. But the temptation is there. For until SABR gets tagged as "proven in combat," it's future will be in doubt.

[PoorMuttly]

Maybe the bayonet should be longer. Maybe LOTS longer !

A 30-round Contender machine gun seems a bit odd, too. At least 20mm anything is always impressive, no matter what the barrel length. Hate for anyone to test this stuff in a hostile environment, though. OINK !

[VaBthang4]

Hahaha....no way that happened. That is funny.

You're added.

[BenLurkin]

Don't know about the weapon itself but there is a good chance the ammo will come from a company called ALLIANT TECHNOLOGY (ticker symbol ATK on the NYSE).

[Myrddin]

I generally distinguish a magazine from a clip by noting that a magazine contains a spring-loaded follower to push the ammo into position. A "clip" is a passive device that holds cartridges in a convenenient geometry for filling a magazine. A magazine may be an integral part of the firearm e.g. SKS, M-1 Garand or removable e.g. M-16 or M-14. A "stripper clip" holds cartridges to convenient press into the magazine whether fixed e.g. SKS or removable e.g. Ruger Mini-14. The M1-Garand clip is pushed down into the magazine and ejected from the rifle on the final round. The Mini-14 and SKS both have a "stripper clip" guide on the top of the bolt face.

[Nebr FAL owner]

piss poor shame the DoD wont look at the concept of "shoot-thru" rifle grenades .The Isreali's sre still using them to great effect for taking doors off hinges(and removing the door frame ) quickly knocking spider holes in walls etc.

[Rodney King]

Personally, I think this gun is a POS and will be proven so on the battlefied.

The 5.56 barrel is only 10 inches long.

The gun is too heavy.

And supply is hard enough without having to worry about a gun with batteries.

There are two different magazines that must be carried as well. What happens when your airdrop of supplies is 1/2 20mm rounds when it is 5.56 that you are out of?

[Milwaukee_Guy]

Things I don't like,

The 10" barrel for the 5.56 round is ridiculous. Too much muzzle velocity loss. Will be -way- too loud. No need to cripple the already marginal 5.56.

14 pound weight (-if- they can get down that low) is nuts. Completely ruins the justification for using the 5.56 round in the first place. I.E. larger ammo load could be carried by each soldier. I believe the 30-06 BAR weighed in at about the same weight. Unless you are a 20 year old fullback, imagine a female or slightly built male trying to hoist this contraption around all day.

"Clip" is used incorrectly. -Magazines- are pictured. A magazine has a spring to feed the cartriges. A clip merely holds the ammo together in an organized manner so it can be inserted INTO A MAGAZINE.

The single trigger is a bad idea. You just know that people will select the wrong load in the heat of battle.

A good idea is the "smart" 20MM round.

20MM is about .787 or about a 10 gauge. A dedicated 20MM weapon sans the the chopped 5.56 might be an interesting replacement for a shotgun. Much greater range and utility. Put it in a 10 pound package (lots of titanium) and add one to a squad. A high tech grenadier weapon.

[reloader]

and develop a .25-08 round

Joe; Warren Page(Longtime Shooting Editor for Field and Stream)developed a .25 cal cartridge on the .308 case in the 50's I believe. He called it the .25 Souper.
It was a good enough cartridge, the problem was, there was no room for it.
The .257 Roberts filled that niche quite well, and still does. The .250/3000 was right below it, and the .25-06 right above it. It's hard to find a wildcat that is accually new these days.

[Joe 6-pack]

I'm not necessarily calling for a, "new," round...the .250 Savage, loaded to the right pressure levels would do nicely, 'though the shoulder angle would probably need some reconfiguration to enhance operation in an AR. Note that all of the rounds you mention are generally considered, "Sporting," rounds that have never received any tactical consideration outside of a small number of the LE sniper community who consider the .25-06/.257 Wby Mag optimum rounds in terms of trajectory, payload, downrange energy, sectional density, etc. It seems odd to me, that for decades, NATO wrapped itself up in debates over the plusses and minuses of the 5.56 vs. 7.62 w/out looking for resolution in the middle ground. The Brits did, in the '50s, play around with something that was the ballistic equivalent of the 7mm-08, and IMHO would probably be worth looking into again. If, however, one of the primary redeeming factors of the 5.56 is in the weight of bulk ammo, a .25 w/ a 110-125gr. projectile would be far better than a 7mm w/ a 140-150 grainer, or a .308 w/ a 180gr slug. In as much as Armalite currently markets an AR-10/15 variant already chambered in .243 WIN, a simple barrel swap would pretty much do the trick. Likewise, with some faster burning powders, a short barreled variant would maintain a bullet mass that would make up for the velocity loss as per the experience with the 5.56 M4 in Somolia.

In the words of Rod Serling...submitted for your approval...

[jjm2111]

"...and promising the liason officer future employment etc etc ...."

LOL!

[jjm2111]

I'm no grunt, but just looking at this thing and I know that if I was a ground pounder I wouldn't want to carry it. too heavy, too clunky, the 10 in barrel for the 5.56 seems way to short. The bayonet is laughable.

The 20mm is a good idea, but it should be a separate weapon.

Thanks for the ping, though.

[Lion Den Dan]

Can't be using those shoot through grenades. Simple logic tells you that the bullet would go through the door you are trying to blow and hurt some one. Sheeesh.

[archy]

The Brits did, in the '50s, play around with something that was the ballistic equivalent of the 7mm-08, and IMHO would probably be worth looking into again.

That was the .280/30 cartridge of the EM-2 bullpup rifle, a fine handling prototype from Stefan Janson, John Barlow and Lt Edward Kent-Lemon at Enfield which might have been adopted as the British service rifle had it not been for the U.S. insistance on pushing the shortened .30-06 cartridge known then as the T65, now as the 7.62 NATO, down the throats of the ordnance departments of the various NATO members.

Both the developmental FAL rifles under consideration by the Brits and the EM-2 design were made in variations of the *.280 EM-2* chambering [actually a .276/ 7mm 144-grain bullet] with a case length of 43mm and a case head and rim with the dimensions of the previous .30 US and 7.62mm dimensions, thus the *30* designation of the final version.

Interestingly, the cartridge shares its case length with two others that offer definite possibilities for the experimenter and tinkerer: the nearly obscure Czech 7,62x45mm assualt rifle cartridge, as used in the Czech M52 machinegun, Vz52 rifle, and Vz58 assault rifle, but replaced by weapons chambered for the Soviet M43 7,62x39mm AK47 cartridge in the name of Warsaw Pact standardization. A Czech 7,62x45 case necked down to 7mm offers nearly identical dimensions to that of the proposed cartridge of the EM-2, and the semi-auto Vz52 *SHE* rifles and barrelled actions are available at very reasonable prices for those interested...and of course the .223/5,56x45mm ammunition of the M16 and other rifles shares a similar case dimension, though with a smaller rim and case head diameter. Both 6mm and 6,5mm versions of the M16A1 were tried with varying results during the military's SAW program; it was decided to retain the original bullet diameter, but utilize a heavier projectile instead.

So there may still be hope for the cartridge of the EM-2, if not for the rifle itself. Had it only been fitted with a top-mounted magazine, as per the beloved British Bren gun [and equally appreciated Australian Owen SMG] allowing the change of large-capacity magazines without interference in the prone position and side-mounted telescopic and auxiliarry iron sights, and a downward or through butt or foreend ejection of fired cartridges making the design both Righty and Southpaw friendly, it might still be around....

Oh well, the Russians have their *Groza* bullpup AK. Not as handy for a left-hander, but I suppose it'll do if something of the sort is required....

[archy]

Personally, I think this thing is a POS and will be proven so on the battlefield.

The death of one of the civilian testing personnel during a little mishap with one of the explosive 20mm rounds has not endeared it to those who might do the real world field testing. At least that lets the developers continue to claim that no military personnel have been harmed in accidents with the damn things.

But just as we were very interested in what would happen to an M79 fgrenadier with a basic load of explosive grenade ammo who happened to step on a mine [would the rounds he carried go off too in a *sympathetic detonation?] so too should that be a fascinatinjg test of the new 20mm grenades, with their more delicate electronic multichoice optional settings.

Look Ivan! Americans to get new OICW-gun, with grenade launcher....

Yeah, yeah. In 5 years, maybe ten. Meantime, we still have more dukhai to kill. Go get me a couple more boxes ammo for the Plamya....

[Squantos]

Setback, spin, lockballs, butterfly, "click", insensitive HE...... etc etc etc......:o)

Stay Safe !

[archy]

Setback, spin, lockballs, butterfly, "click", insensitive HE......

400 rpm.

One of the multiple fatalities I attended and photographed for CID was that of two guys killed after they'd been playing handball with a then-new M33 *green apple* grenade off the side of a Vietnamese M41 tank. The blasting cap inside that thing would only take so much....

-archy-/-

[FreedomPoster]

>>Ergo, where the weapon has an internal magazine, the terms "clip" and "magazine" are mutually exclusive. Where the weapon has no internal magazine, the terms are interchangeable.

What about when I use external stripper clips to load external magazines on my FAL, as I've been known to do. The terms darn sure aren't interchangeable then. ;-)

[Vinnie_Vidi_Vici]

Wonderful!! A 10" rifle barrel, those short barreled M4 carbines were innefective in Afghanistan because the short barrel couldn't develop the full velocity, so they make one even shorter AND make it 20# , you're gonna need that bayonet!

[ExSoldier]

I dunno. I owned a BUSHMASTER M17S Bullpup for a few years...it was a little heavy being all steel, but it used M16/AR15 mags and ran like a top no matter what. Not very expensive, either. But you just HAD to add an optical sight and if you worked in close you had to aim four inches high because that was how far off the axis of the bore your sight pic was!

[Sergio]

Fourteen pounds for an individual weapon seems kinda heavy.

Many years ago '86, I got to carry a GAU-5 (CAR-16) w/7 30 rd. mags, an M-79 with 12 rds, a brick (radio), two 2QT, canteens, four smoke grenades, and since I was a big guy, I got to carry the spare barrel for the M-60 plus two 50 round belts.

Notice I didn't mention a flak jacket, extra clothes or rations. Didn't need em as it was only a 10 mile hike.

10 miles doesn't sound like much but we were hiking in a mountain range at about 9000 feet. Let's just say it was fun at the time, but I don't ever want to have to do that again.

Light is good!!!

Our troops today have their body armor, their chem gear, their sighting systems, their GPS systems, their food, water and clothing, first aid kits, entrenching tools, and blankets. Notice, we haven't gotten to weapons and spare ammunition.

Light is good!!! 14 pounds without additonal ammo is bad!

Just my 2 cents.

Regards

Sergio