A Question of Temperament [What makes one a conservative?] First of a Series

The Wall Street Journal ^ | Tuesday, December 3, 2002 | ROGER SCRUTON

[UB355]

I'd like to be added to the list

[KC Burke]

Thanks for the ping. I will comment as time allows.

[u-89]

Your ID of 3 types of conservatives is intersting but there are so many other brands I think the term should be scrapped as it is too confused and nobody knows who is who and what is what any more. In NYC there is a Pizza parlor called Ray's Pizza. Also there is Famous Ray's Pizza, Original Ray's Pizza, The Famous Original Ray's Pizza, Orignal Famous Ray's Pizza, etc, etc, etc and etc. How many conservatives today would classify as a conservative of the the 1930's or early post war period? How many conservatives want to go back to strict constitutional domestic AND foreign policy? How may conservatives want to conserve empire and entangling alliances? How many want to manage the welfare state better than the Dems? Conservatism has "evloved" the way "liberal" evolved from the 18th cent. to the 20th cent. Perhaps old time conservatives should let the neocons have the name and just called themselves something else like constitutionalist, traditionalist, or even libertarians or as a friend of mine says call ourselves losers, admit the game is lost and enjoy what years we have left as best we can. Of course people with children might not be so fatalistic and quick to throw in the towel.

[TroutStalker]

Ding.

[ex-snook]

"Perhaps old time conservatives should let the neocons have the name and just called themselves something else like constitutionalist, traditionalist, or even libertarians or as a friend of mine says call ourselves losers, admit the game is lost and enjoy what years we have left as best we can. "

LOL. You have said it best!

[wingnuts'nbolts]

Conservatives are not cut with a cookie cutter, but they all think with their logic and not with their emotions. For the last 20 years it has been "I feel", I feel your pain", never do the liberals say "I thinK" they only feel.
Women in general are part of the liberal touchy feely group, until life has taught them lessons they were not looking to learn.

[landerwy]

Thanks for the bump!

[cookiedough]

Thanks for the bump! I'll have to read and comment later tho, if I have anything to say. :-)

[KC Burke]

Sorry it has taken me a while to offer my thoughts on this. The article brings up the issue of the baggage carried by the meaning of the root word in the word associated with the brand of political and cultural temperment we call conservative.

That root, conserve carries with it all the related assumptions...the conotations and denotation of the root and extends those, warrented or not, to the label of "conservative."

As others have mentioned, critical and dishonorable terms often make the best political labels when lifted with relish by those they are meant to belittle. They endure more easily.

Tory, Whig and Democrat all had the disreputablness associated with their origin and the time they rose to prominance. Whig refered to the whey that poor scots drank as I understood it. Whiggish then began as a slur but was raised to good repute.

[ZULU]

"If conservatives favor the free market, it is not because market solutions are the most efficient ways of distributing resources -- although they are -- but because they compel people to bear the costs of their own actions, and to become responsible citizens."

Truer wrods were never spoken. The liberal elite WANT people to be absolved of the consequnces of their actions. If people are not capable of being responsible for the consequnces of their actions, they they, the liberal media and bureaocratic elite are jsutified in making decisions for them.

[u-89]

I understand your concern about keeping up morale but I do not believe reality can be avoided even if we wish it away. Limbaugh is cheery because it sells well. People like to feel upbeat and he offers hope (personally he reminds me of L. Ron Hubbard and dianetics). His optomistic attitude has made him wealthy and maybe he really does believe his own forecasts for a conservative future but some of us read the trends and extrapolate them into the future and do not seen a long life for liberty or western culture. If one defines conservatism to be anything the GOP is pushing on a given day and happinesss is derived from success of the GOP then that is a differnt matter than what I had addressed in my other post. However if one's optomism is for the longevity of liberty as our founding fathers conceived it then that optomism would be in vain. Old type conservative values can not co-exist with socialism and socialism leads to tryanny (read Hayak's Road To Serfdom). Also socialism and empire are doomed to failure as each has historically demonstrated over the ages. History is like a pendulum and it swings one way then the other and the cycle each way takes generations. We have been moving in the opposite direction from our founding principles for some time, just as those principles took generations to achieve. Historic trends are against us. Current events, current leadership, education, judicial mindset and any other factor one could mention indicate no hope for conservatives as defined in the traditional sense but if you want a "new conservatism" then be happy, we have that now.

Regarding Reagan, he was from a different era and socialism and the moral rot though estabilshed had yet to conquer all, there was still reason to hope at that time for a turn around, even if it was a long shot back in the 50's, 60's and 70's. Reagan won election 22 years ago and even then it was too late and a lot of water has gone under the bridge since then. What did Reagan acheive in the long run? Government grew and continues to grow. Republicans are in charge and government grows. Just to show you what a failure he was in his battle government named a billion dollar plus federal boondoggle building after him in DC. The establishment had the last laugh. He was contained.

To use the driving towards a cliff analogy some think we can just turn the wheel from the direction the democrats were driving and all will be well, some believe the establishment republicans don't want to change direction, just slow down from 100 m.p.h. to 65. Some have hope we can change GOP leadership and things can be turned around. Then there are those who believe we are already over the cliff, in a free fall and it is merely time before we strike bottom. Whichever the case may be I say just enjoy the ride as best you can.

Cheers,