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Bush Marks End of Ramadan, Visits Mosque (Islam brings hope and comfort)
ap ^ | 12/5/2002 | SCOTT LINDLAW

Posted on 12/05/2002 3:37:52 PM PST by TLBSHOW

By SCOTT LINDLAW, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) - With Muslims worldwide growing more suspicious of the United States, President Bush (news - web sites) marked the end of the Islamic holy month of Ramadan with a visit Thursday to a mosque.

"The spirit behind this holiday is a reminder that Islam brings hope and comfort to more than 1 billion people worldwide," Bush said. "Islam affirms God's justice and insists on man's moral responsibility."

Bush left his shoes at the door, in keeping with the practice of the Islamic Center of Washington, a national center for Muslim culture and prayer. He also had visited six days after the terrorist attacks last year.

Back then, with a surge in hate crimes against Muslims in the United States, Bush was trying to defuse Americans' anger against Islam. Today, he has a different problem — increased hostility by Muslims around the world against America.

In an international survey released Wednesday, the Pew Global Attitudes Project found the image of the United States is slipping worldwide, and particularly in Middle Eastern countries with large Muslim populations. Large percentages of Muslim respondents in several countries said they believe suicide bomb attacks are a justifiable defense of Islam.

On Wednesday, Bush blamed America's tarnished image among Muslims on "propaganda machines (that) are cranked up in the international community that paints our country in a bad light."

The growing animosity comes at a time when Bush is trying to rally the world against terrorism and gather allies for possible military action against Iraq.

Inside the ornate mosque, Bush offered an explanation of the Muslim feast of Eid al-Fitr, which marks the end of Ramadan, and renewed his defense of Islam.

Bush's speech was directed to a national and international audience. There was virtually no one inside except journalists and his staff. A few mosque officials stood next to Bush as he spoke.

"Over the past month, Muslims have fasted, taking no food or water during daylight hours, in order to refocus their minds on faith and redirect their hearts to charity," Bush said.

"Muslims worldwide have stretched out a hand of mercy to those in need, charity tables at which the poor can break their fast line the streets of cities and towns, and gifts of food and clothing and money are distributed to ensure that all share in God's abundance," he said.

From the Muslim event, Bush officially opened the Christmas season at the White House by lighting a Christmas tree just outside the gates.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bush; islam; muslims; terrorist
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1 posted on 12/05/2002 3:37:52 PM PST by TLBSHOW
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Comment #2 Removed by Moderator

To: GWELO
Religion of Peace?

Prove it.



for every German I meet or see is a Nazi, it's reasonable for me to say all Germans are Nazis. It may not be true, of course, but having no evidence indicating otherwise it's certainly understandable that I would draw that conclusion. If, however, I constantly hear Germans condemn Nazism and anything which remotely resembles Nazism, if I see them repudiating German Nazis, and working to repair the damage done by German Nazis, it would be outrageously unfair and malicious for me to say all Germans are Nazis.

Now, under both hypothetical circumstances, the actual number of Germans who are Nazis can remain the same. The only difference is what the non-Nazi Germans do. As the saying goes, all that evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing.


This goes for public relations too.

But first, let's bring things up to date. Right now there's an interesting debate going on, mostly on the right — which makes sense as that is where most interesting debates take place these days (think about it). It's basically about the nature of Islam and how the Bush administration deals with the Muslim world. On the one extreme are folks like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell, who say Islam is soaked-to-the-bone violent and, according to some, just plain "evil." On the other side, I suppose, are folks like David Forte, a law professor and reported adviser to the White House who, according to critics, believes religiosity is more important than the content of a religion. (He's written for NRO defending this view) I'm sure there are people in the White House who truly believe "Islam means peace," but — with the exception of George W. Bush — their names elude me.

In the middle of these two extremes — Islam is bad versus Islam is wonderful — are lots of pragmatists and agnostics of various flavors. Indeed, most of the folks who reject the "Islam means peace" bumper sticker, including Robertson himself, concede that as a matter of geopolitics President Bush has no choice but to make nice on the Islamic world. Asked by George Stephanopoulos whether Bush is being politically correct, Robertson replied "No, he's not being politically correct. He is waging a war, and he's waging a war against terrorism and he doesn't want to take on the whole Arab world. He doesn't want this to be a Muslim-Christian fight or a Muslim-America fight." And this is why Bush has gone out of his way to either condemn or distance himself from comments by Robertson, Falwell, and others.

Now — just to be clear — on the substance, I guess I'm closer to the Islam-is-a-violent-religion party. I think Falwell was silly to call Mohammed a "terrorist" because the word as we know it simply cannot be applied with any validity to conquering Arab generals of the 7th century. I see no reason not to think of Mohammed as an enlightened ruler as far as things went back in those days and in that place. But let's also face facts: Mohammed was a general, and his generations of successors and disciples were conquerors. There is just too much in Islam about the importance of grabbing and holding territory to ignore. Jesus was a nonviolent martyr who argued for rendering unto Caesar what was his. Mohammed was Caesar. The seed of the notion of a civil society outside the scope of religious authority was planted by Jesus in Jewish soil; it was subsequently nurtured, with much bloodshed, over two millennia until today where the separation of Church and State is a bedrock of Western Civilization. This separation of the City of God and the City of Man, to use Saint Augustine's formulation, is still quite alien to Islamic society.

Furthermore, the first few generations of Christianity were marked by suffering and oppression. The first few generations of Islam were marked by conquering. In its harshness, I suppose you could say Islam resembles pre-Christian Judaism in some ways. Jews, too, believe in the importance of geography and the use of the sword to protect it. Of course, they believe in holding onto only one narrow strip of it. (Prediction: Jewish militants will never claim, say, Cleveland as rightfully theirs.) And, it should be said, many Jews do not see modern Israel as the fulfillment of any Biblical or religious imperative — lots and lots of Zionists are very secular. And, it should be noted, Jews haven't spent most of the last two millennia ruling empires and conquering land so much as being brutalized, oppressed, or — at best — tenuously tolerated.

Anyway, Muslims tend to believe that once a strip of dirt becomes Muslim it's gotta stay Muslim for ever and ever. And if a burg's population becomes majority Muslim, it must be ruled by Muslims (see Kashmir for details). This is one of the primary understandings, historically and religiously speaking, of "jihad." "Until fairly recent times," writes Bernard Lewis, "[jihad] was usually, though not universally, understood in a military sense. It was a Muslim duty — collective in attack, individual in defense — to fight in the war against the unbelievers. In principle, this war was to continue until all mankind either embraced Islam or submitted to the authority of the Muslim state."

According to Islamic tradition, the world is divided into the House of War and the House of Islam — and once real estate is brought into the House of Islam, there's no getting out. And, eventually, the House of War will be brought into the House of Islam too. That's why Osama bin Laden says that he won't rest until he gets most of Spain back. And this is partly, though not entirely, why — as Samuel Huntington noted — "the borders of Islam are bloody."

IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER
But now that I've given you some indication of where I come down on the question "Is Islam a religion of peace?" let me say none of this matters.

Look: I take law-abiding, tolerant, and peaceful Muslims at their word when they say to me that they believe Islam means peace. Further, I take them at their word that they live by that interpretation. But the fact remains that other Muslims surely believe that Islam means death. Death to Christians, Jews, and Hindus; death to unbelievers, heretics, blasphemers, adulterers, and plenty of other categories of human being. And guess what, it's those Muslims who are killing us. And guess what else? Those other, peace-loving, Muslims aren't doing enough about it.

I've written before that in the realm of public policy, theology doesn't matter nearly as much as morality and behavior. You can believe that murder is wrong because it depletes the ozone layer for all we care — so long as you believe murder is wrong. The differences between, say, Greek Orthodox Christians and Quakers are fascinating, rich, storied, and significant. But in the public square they do not matter one bit so long as Greek Orthodox Christians and Quakers alike abide by the law and our common sense of morality. If one group wants to burn incense and the other wants to make oatmeal, nobody cares. So long as each group leaves the other alone.

So, to a certain extent, I couldn't care less if Islam is, on paper, factually, textually, objectively, and in all other academic senses a religion of war and bigotry — so long as actual Muslims are decent and upstanding people. And, similarly, the fact that Christianity is a religion of love and compassion would be equally meaningless if Christians spent their days poking me with red-hot metal thingies — out of love and compassion no doubt — in order to get me to convert. Sure, I might take note of Christian hypocrisy while I waited for Torquemada to bust out his scrotal tongs, but, truth be told, scoring debating points wouldn't be at the forefront of my agenda.

Which brings me back to the Nazis and Germans. Human beings draw conclusions from what they see. All around the world, Muslims are declaring, in the name of Islam, that they are at war with the West. More important, all around the world self-declared Muslims are actually waging war on the West. They may be a tiny minority of the global Muslim community. I have no doubt that's true. But if the decent and peace-loving Muslims of the world sit on their hands and do nothing, you can hardly fault many in the West who draw the conclusion that Islam is anything but peaceful. Why is it so hard to find, for example, a Muslim "leader" to condemn the death sentence against the journalist who wrote about Mohammed and the Miss World pageant — without some moral-equivalence weasel words about how she should have known better?

Closer to home, consider our friends at CAIR, the Council on American-Islamic Relations (which has orchestrated endless spam campaigns against this publication). CAIR had to be dragged kicking and screaming into the business of denouncing terrorists. They do it now from time to time, but it sure doesn't sound like their heart is in it. Scroll through these "News Releases" from CAIR over the last year or so. You'll find a couple of denunciations of terrorists (followed by demands that Jews do the same to Israel, in a cute game of moral equivalence). But you will find these are the needles in the giant haystacks of whines and complaints about how unfair America is to Muslims. The folks at CAIR, and other Muslim activists, are much, much more concerned, it seems, about the U.S. government or American pundits saying vaguely un-nice things about Muslims than they are about the fact that Muslims around the world are insulting their faith through mass murder in Mohammed's name.

When the FBI recently came out with its numbers on hate crimes against Muslims in America, American Islamic activists like Ibrahim Hooper were all over the airwaves and newspapers outrageously comparing American Muslims to Jews in Weimar Germany. But you can hear crickets chirp or, at best, you can read torpid boilerplate, when it comes time to denounce Muslim atrocities.

By the way, I'm outraged by the Germany comparison not as a Jew but as an American. There isn't a scintilla of validity to the insinuation that America has been anything but the antithesis of what Hooper and self-pitying whiners claim. According to the very FBI statistics they cite, twice as many Jews as Muslims were the victims of hate crimes in the United States since 19 Muslim fanatics murdered 3,000 Americans on 9/11. And, by the way, if a Jew used those numbers in order to justify saying America feels like Weimar Germany I would call him an idiot who should be ashamed of himself for slandering America (and demeaning the Holocaust as well). The fact is that, while even one crime is too many, the post-9/11 "backlash" against Muslims in America has been astoundingly mild by historical standards. Compared to what happened to German-Americans during WWI or Japanese-Americans in WWII it barely even warrants an asterisk in the history books.

Oh, and speaking of denouncing fellow Jews, I've done it plenty of times. For example, when Irv Rubin of the JDL was arrested for plotting a terrorist attack I denounced him in the strongest possible terms, as did pretty much every prominent Jewish figure in America within 48 hours. (See Jeff Jacoby's excellent column from December 20, 2001. You need to scroll down.)

I bring this up not to brag about my consistency but to make the point that it's important not to let others speak in your name if you disagree with what they're saying. Especially when they're saying it with bombs and guns. I will have a lot more sympathy for the complaints of Muslim activists once they put even a fraction of the energy they dedicate to portraying themselves as victims of bigoted America — or Europe — toward policing and condemning their own co-religionists. If they're afraid for their personal safety or even their lives — not an unreasonable fear — that's no excuse. Al-Qaeda, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, and the rest may constitute hijackers in the cockpit of a peaceful religion, but they will define Islam if the folks in the main cabin don't fight the hijackers. That's what happened with Nazis in Germany, and that's what will happen with militant Islam if non-militant Islam continues to insist that its biggest enemies are the open and tolerant nations of the West that gave them the opportunity to live decent lives in freedom. If they persist in that complaint, nobody will be able to justly blame average Americans for scoffing at the suggestion that Islam means peace.

http://www.nationalreview.com/goldberg/goldberg120402.asp






3 posted on 12/05/2002 3:47:18 PM PST by TLBSHOW
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To: knighthawk; rebdov; Nix 2; green lantern; BeOSUser; Brad's Gramma; dreadme; keri; Turk2
here are some classics........

Islam brings hope and comfort to more than 1 billion people worldwide," Bush said. "Islam affirms God's justice and insists on man's moral responsibility."


"Over the past month, Muslims have fasted, taking no food or water during daylight hours, in order to refocus their minds on faith and redirect their hearts to charity," Bush said.

"Muslims worldwide have stretched out a hand of mercy to those in need, charity tables at which the poor can break their fast line the streets of cities and towns, and gifts of food and clothing and money are distributed to ensure that all share in God's abundance," he said.




4 posted on 12/05/2002 3:51:21 PM PST by TLBSHOW
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To: TLBSHOW
Next week, December 12th, he should go to kneel before the Shrine of the Virgen of Guadalupe. All things being equal. This to commemorate her rising from the dead, and ascending to Heaven.
5 posted on 12/05/2002 3:51:46 PM PST by rovenstinez
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To: TLBSHOW
I was watching the "Festival of Peace and National Christmas Tree Lighting" on CSPAN-1 an hour ago. Who added the front verbiage I don't know, although I have my suspicions. What I saw was nice and when President Bush [in a Stetson] invited two kids up to help him light the tree, I just imagined how Prez. Hilly would handle the same task in the future.

The name would be "NonDenominational, NonSectarian Midwinter Festival of Light and Wiccan Winter Solstice and Festival of Government Protected Village Children ..." and helping her light the Tannenbaum Midwinter Tree would be children of Islamic, Jewish, Buddist, Amerindian and Tiger Wood's kid [Multiethnic representative] (so long as s/he was certified as non-Christian). I pray I never see this!

6 posted on 12/05/2002 3:54:14 PM PST by SES1066
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To: TLBSHOW
What is the percentage of black muslims in Lousiana ?
7 posted on 12/05/2002 3:54:17 PM PST by VRWC_minion
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To: TLBSHOW

8 posted on 12/05/2002 3:55:12 PM PST by Alouette
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To: TLBSHOW
Bush should get out of the business of trying to act as America's 'First Theologian.'
9 posted on 12/05/2002 3:55:23 PM PST by PresbyRev
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To: TLBSHOW
Alas, I have come to expect no less from George Bush. Stuck at home because of the ice storm I watched his speech. It's just sad. I've given him the benefit of the doubt and while I am glad that he was in office on 9/11 instead of Gore, I'm not sure where my vote will go in 2004. A Democrat schmoozing with the Chinese or a Republican schmoozing with the Muslim world. Well I know I will be told it's all part of his greater plan. Problem being, I'm not sure how much more of his greater plan I want to see
10 posted on 12/05/2002 3:57:19 PM PST by billbears
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To: TLBSHOW; Thinkin' Gal; RnMomof7; 2sheep; Jeremiah Jr

11 posted on 12/05/2002 3:57:44 PM PST by Sir Gawain
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To: TLBSHOW
Bush left his shoes at the door...

The President must be a man of many shoes...or hats, as the case may be.

FMCDH

12 posted on 12/05/2002 4:00:39 PM PST by nothingnew
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To: Alouette
Now THAT's funny!
13 posted on 12/05/2002 4:00:47 PM PST by Ahban
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To: TLBSHOW
I thought Bush was a Christian?

14 posted on 12/05/2002 4:03:47 PM PST by anobjectivist
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To: anobjectivist
You want to read what him and Powell say to our American Christian leaders? I will be right back.
15 posted on 12/05/2002 4:05:02 PM PST by TLBSHOW
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To: TLBSHOW
All members of the panel on Fox News tonight, including Brit Hume and Fred Barnes, said that this was the correct thing to do.

Fred siad that it would accomplish nothing and would be harmful to attack all Muslims.

I think I will agree with the panel.

16 posted on 12/05/2002 4:05:51 PM PST by Miss Marple
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To: PresbyRev
Bush should get out of the business of trying to act as America's 'First Theologian.'

He's not acting as a "theologian" (you stole that reference from Pat Robertson anyway).

The alternative to saying good things about Islam for public consumption is to essentially endorse all the hatred that is being poured out against Muslims, including those who do nothing but try to live their lives the best they can.

Bush may believe or not believe what he is saying, but it is a good thing he is saying it.

All the hysteria being poured out by evangelicals and folks on this website are exactly why it is a good thing he is saying it.

17 posted on 12/05/2002 4:06:14 PM PST by sinkspur
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To: TLBSHOW
Making nice-nice with murderers. How heartwarming.
18 posted on 12/05/2002 4:07:47 PM PST by IronJack
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To: TLBSHOW
Did any of the imams show up at the XMas tree lighting.

Just rhetorical.
19 posted on 12/05/2002 4:08:21 PM PST by swarthyguy
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To: TLBSHOW
Geez....you forgot the barf alert on this one.

I especially like this line With Muslims worldwide growing more suspicious of the United States.

What the HE!! are they suspicious of us for? They are the murderous lunatics not us.

MKM

20 posted on 12/05/2002 4:08:30 PM PST by mykdsmom
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To: IronJack
Making nice-nice with murderers.

Bush is killing murderers; he is showing respect to fellow American citizens who happen to be Muslim.

21 posted on 12/05/2002 4:09:24 PM PST by sinkspur
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To: sinkspur
So lying is not a big deal for a Christian? Cool.
22 posted on 12/05/2002 4:09:31 PM PST by Sir Gawain
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To: Sir Gawain
You know that picture is HILARIOUS for the sole reason that the kid is wearing a NIKE shirt!!!!!

23 posted on 12/05/2002 4:10:16 PM PST by anobjectivist
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To: TLBSHOW
"Islam affirms God's justice and insists on man's moral responsibility."

What a load of crap!

24 posted on 12/05/2002 4:10:50 PM PST by Walkin Man
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To: F16Fighter
Get a drink before you read this.

Why wasn't a statement enough? Or better yet, invite the imams to the Tree Lighting ceremony and then say these words standing next to the imams and the Xmas tree.

So much coddling of the jihadis while true conservative muslims like kabbani and fadl are ignored while the WH and Bush cavort with murdering saudi sponsored jihadi scum.

Bah!
25 posted on 12/05/2002 4:11:33 PM PST by swarthyguy
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To: Sir Gawain
So lying is not a big deal for a Christian?

Is he lying? Islam, the way it is observed by 98% of Muslims in the world, IS peaceful.

Even if Bush thought it wasn't, it would be stupid for him to say so.

Just like it's stupid for you to say so.

26 posted on 12/05/2002 4:13:12 PM PST by sinkspur
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To: sinkspur
thank you sinkspur! nicely stated, and I agree.
27 posted on 12/05/2002 4:13:13 PM PST by Laverne
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To: TLBSHOW

Look Ma, no shoes!

28 posted on 12/05/2002 4:13:18 PM PST by swarthyguy
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To: Miss Marple
Is Bush lying?
29 posted on 12/05/2002 4:13:26 PM PST by Sir Gawain
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To: anobjectivist
First Winston Churchill who says Islam will bring down Europe.

Quotation of the Decade? Gregory Smith offers this Churchill comment on that great religion we are not fighting against,,,,,,,

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property‹either as a child, a wife, or a concubine‹must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen; all know how to die; but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith.


It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science‹the science against which it had vainly struggled‹the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome."


.........

"Churchill despised the (ISLAM) Pathans, calling them 'Stone Age savages whose daily deeds are treachery and violence'. He dismissed Islam as a 'miserable superstition propagated by the sword', the founding principle of which was an 'incentive to slaughter'. The village mosque, he deemed a 'consecrated hovel'. He hated the Pathan lifestyle, saying they lived in 'fortified slums, amid dirt and ignorance, as degraded a race as any on the fringe of humanity; fierce as the tiger, but less cleanly.'

Even Pathan women came in for a journalistic beating from the future Prime Minister. 'Their wives,' he wrote, 'have no position but that of animals. They are too filthy to handle and too noisome to approach.' He called the local Pathan patriots who had risen in defence of, what he called, 'their pestilential land', 'ignorant, depraved, squalid, athletic savages'.

He wrote that 'extermination of the inhabitants' of the Frontier was necessary because of the 'perpetual inheritance of our race'."

The above is from various sources.

Below is Neal Boortz


RECOGNIZE THE ENEMY --- THE ENEMY IS ISLAM

In Nigeria the wonderful, peace loving Islamic mullahs are getting ready to stone a woman to death because she had sex outside of marriage. Penalty for the man? Well, remember … this is Islam. It’s all the woman’s fault for tempting the man.

Islam is a violent religion bent on world domination. Recognize this now or pay the tab later.

John Rossi’s recent article in The Weekly Standard told us of Winston Churchill’s opinion of Islam. Here --- read this:

"That religion, which above all others was founded and propagated by the sword--the tenets and principles of which are...incentives to slaughter and which in three continents had produced fighting breeds of men--stimulates a wild and merciless fanaticism."

Is it time to listen to Winston Churchill?

THE NEAL BOORTZ SHOW

Sorry Neal not just yet but soon!
30 posted on 12/05/2002 4:14:23 PM PST by TLBSHOW
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To: sinkspur
Islam, the way it is observed by 98% of Muslims in the world, IS peaceful.

What if you practice Islam the way it was meant to be practiced? Is it still peaceful? Why haven't "moderate" Muslims condemned the "radicals"? Their silence is tantamount to acceptance of radical teachings.

31 posted on 12/05/2002 4:15:53 PM PST by Sir Gawain
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To: anobjectivist
I thought Bush was a Christian?

Depends on what the definition of "Christian"is

32 posted on 12/05/2002 4:16:07 PM PST by don-o
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To: sinkspur
I wasn't aware that Robertson has used that reference to what Bush has been doing, but by presuming to make theological declarations for the consumption of anyone, Bush is acting as a sort of theologian.

You really ought not accuse people of stealing, they might accuse you of being an ass.

33 posted on 12/05/2002 4:16:25 PM PST by PresbyRev
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To: TLBSHOW
From the Muslim event, Bush officially opened the Christmas season at the White House by lighting a Christmas tree just outside the gates.

I hope he took a shower first. I know I'd have to.

America's Fifth Column ... watch Steve Emerson/PBS documentary JIHAD! In America
New Link: Download 8 Mb zip file here (60 minute video)

Who is Steve Emerson?

34 posted on 12/05/2002 4:18:50 PM PST by JCG
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To: sinkspur
he is showing respect to fellow American citizens who happen to be Muslim.

And the murderers of 9/11 just happened to be Muslims too. And their actions were motivated by their religion, or so they claimed. But I don't suppose there's any chance any of these other "fellow American citizens who happen to be Muslim" would ever entertain similar notions. Because theirs is a religion of peace.

Did I get it right?

35 posted on 12/05/2002 4:19:41 PM PST by IronJack
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To: anobjectivist
that the kid is wearing a NIKE shirt!!!!!

"Just do it!"

36 posted on 12/05/2002 4:22:01 PM PST by mhking
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To: TLBSHOW
His intentions are good, but he is overdoing it.
37 posted on 12/05/2002 4:22:44 PM PST by TopQuark
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To: sinkspur
Those must be the peace-loving 98% who have taken to the streets and mosques denouncing terrorism in the name of Islam.
38 posted on 12/05/2002 4:23:53 PM PST by PresbyRev
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To: TLBSHOW
I'm afraid this is just...
39 posted on 12/05/2002 4:24:57 PM PST by Revolting cat!
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To: sinkspur
I appreciate all your comments on this article. You bring a cool head to one very hot topic.
40 posted on 12/05/2002 4:25:16 PM PST by NEWwoman
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To: sinkspur
winning of hearts and minds, ya know.
41 posted on 12/05/2002 4:25:30 PM PST by mikenola
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To: All
*sigh* More brownnosing by Bush. I wish he would just stay out of it. All he needs to say is, "We are fighting Islamic militants" and leave it at that. No "Islam is peace" BS. He doesn't need to say "Islam is violent" either. He should stick to the "just the facts, ma'am" approach.
42 posted on 12/05/2002 4:27:37 PM PST by Morrigan
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To: IronJack
But I don't suppose there's any chance any of these other "fellow American citizens who happen to be Muslim" would ever entertain similar notions.

If you have evidence that any of these "fellow American citizens who happen to be Muslim" are entertaining similar notions, perhaps you should inform Tom Ridge.

Otherwise, you're just stereotyping.

Such stereotyping might lead a lurker to think you're a hotheaded redneck, and we wouldn't want them to get that notion now, would we?

43 posted on 12/05/2002 4:30:11 PM PST by sinkspur
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To: TLBSHOW
Ahh yes..

I should have known this was a "TLBSHOW" thread.

So, Am I late? Did I miss the first of the racial slurs?

44 posted on 12/05/2002 4:30:56 PM PST by Jhoffa_
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To: Sir Gawain
Horsefeathers and balderdash.

I suppose you would consider it appropriate for all Christians to be judged by the actions of those who are the most extreme and violent.

45 posted on 12/05/2002 4:31:34 PM PST by Miss Marple
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To: swarthyguy
"Get a drink before you read this."

Why? Only so I can barf it back out? :-D

"So much coddling of the jihadis while true conservative muslims like kabbani and fadl are ignored while the WH and Bush cavort with murdering saudi sponsored jihadi scum."

Some politicians will say anything OR coddle anyone for votes. If Bill Clinton was doing the exact same thing as Dubya, as in this case, the RINOs on this board would be the first ones screaming bloody murder.

46 posted on 12/05/2002 4:31:44 PM PST by F16Fighter
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To: TLBSHOW
I have a feeling that W Gargles and Brushes his teeth after an appearance like this one.
47 posted on 12/05/2002 4:32:46 PM PST by Mike Darancette
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To: Sir Gawain
As practiced by most Muslims, it is a peaceful religion.

The Islamic fundamentalists are violent, and should be eliminated.

48 posted on 12/05/2002 4:34:04 PM PST by Miss Marple
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To: Sir Gawain
Why haven't "moderate" Muslims condemned the "radicals"?

They have. Over and over and over and over.

You act like American Muslims have some kind of pipeline to al-Qaeda, where, if they just say "stop it" enough, that al-Qaeda will just say, "Oh, OK."

Most American Muslims hate those crazies, and would just like to forget all about them. Why do they have to take some kind of special responsibility because they share a religion that has been bastardized by the Wahabis?

Do you take special responsibility for the Klan because you happen to be white?

49 posted on 12/05/2002 4:35:35 PM PST by sinkspur
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To: Miss Marple
I suppose you would consider it appropriate for all Christians to be judged by the actions of those who are the most extreme and violent.

Naw, what I expect after some lunatic kills an abortion doctor and claims to be doing it for God, is every Christian proclaiming that the killer does not represent mainstream Christianity. Guess what? That's what happens.

Too bad "moderate" Muslims don't do the same after the "radicals" fly some planes into some buildings.

50 posted on 12/05/2002 4:36:00 PM PST by Sir Gawain
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