Arizona militia set to patrol border for illegal aliens

Washington Times ^ | 12/09/02 | Jerry Seper

[Lurker]

I've already got some. It's first generation, but hey you get what you can afford right?

I've got a friend in the commo business as well and I managed to 'scrounge' a couple of those secure Motorola units he had as salesmans samples.

They aren't the new 'SOTA' stuff, but they're better than CBs or those FRS things we had been using.

A little bit at a time, as we are able eh?

Take care bro, una tormenta viene peinso.

L

[FITZ]

The Mexican government would prefer no violence as it rids itself of it's unwanted millions but they'll accept violence too if that's the only way they can succeed in their plans. Actually they'll commit genocide on these same campesinos but they'd prefer it not have to get messy.

[Sparta]

Bump Jeff. My internet has been down since Monday and I only got it fixed today.

[Joe Hadenuf]

This "challange to be arrested" smells like week old fish.

Must make you feel right at home with your do nothing Texas attitude.

[Joe Hadenuf]

That is all well and good but where were these guys 3 years ago?

Where was President Bush's Dad a decade ago?

[Kojak1]

I do not belive in " a plan "....just apathy and economics.... the people come here for the money.... the government lets them for the same reason plus the fact it reduces their internal problems. No matter what the central government of Mexico may think....it is a low priority and something they can not control.....low level officials are corruptable and it is impossiuble to plug the leak without their support and MAJOR costs to an already impoverished government.
My concern is that these "amatuer" border guards will over-react and make the situation worse not better. We have already had an attempted massacre by other vigilantees.
The answer lies in energizing the government at all levels to correct a VERY dangerous situation. but I have seen no sign they are even listening....much less prepared to act.

[Kojak1]

The reference you cite ONLY refers to their "non-profit" status....they may not claim militia or vigilante status but their actions betray their true nature. The hazard is that they are amatuers and subject to making the situation worse not better. I empathize with their goals but STRONGLY disagree with their methods. This is a tragedy in the making.

[Kojak1]

While I agree with the flaw in his policies and credibility..BUT ..to disreguard EVERYTHING just because he is wrong in one area is illogical... Just as , if a he were "right" in one area there is no reason to accept ALL his ideas as correct.

[nicmarlo]

BUT ..to disreguard EVERYTHING just because he is wrong in one area is illogical

Okay, you are correct, in general, about a broad sweep being illogical. OTOH, if the President's main concern is our safety, as he keeps saying, and if we are to believe that his concern is to protection ALL Americans, then certain actions/steps must be taken to back up his concerns. Merely checking people at airports does nothing to effect the safety of all Americans; it's limited to particular people in a particular environment (i.e., those traveling on planes or those who could become possible targets of planes). Taking only a particular action (checking for illegals or bombs at U.S. airports) makes his argument of "protecting all Americans" an absurdity on its face. Illegals can and do enter America at our borders, by the millions, and are, therefore, able to get to U.S. airports, ride U.S. busses, get a hold of forged U.S. documents allowing free travel throughout the U.S., outside of airports.

[FITZ]

Read this if you think there actually wasn't a plan:

http://www.diario.com.mx/servicios/hemeroteca/nota.asp?notaid=18638

Los gobiernos de Echeverría y López Portillo intentaron relanzar la agricultura nacional. Le inyectaron enormes recursos e hicieron repuntar un poco la producción y el crecimiento. Sin embargo, con un canal viciado de raíz: todo lo que los regímenes corporativos priístas hicieran por el campo iría fatalmente marcado por la demagogia, el acarreo, y el privilegio de la producción de capital político sobre los alimentos y materias primas.

“En el campo mexicano sobran muchos millones de campesinos, pues su contribución al producto interno bruto es muy desproporcionada con su participación en el total poblacional. Por lo tanto, de 25 millones hay que reducir la población a unos 5 millones”.Con eso todo estaba dicho.

Hay que reducir la poblacion (de campesinos) a unos 5 millions ----Salinas de Gortari's administration explicitly states that they intend to reduce this population by 5 million people. The Mexican government never intended to help the Mexican people ---it intended to get rid of them.

Salinas continúa reduciendo los apoyos al campo a la vez que controla los precios de garantía y reduce el número de productos que cuentan con ellos. Pero su estrategia hacia el campo se centra en dos políticas: privatización de la propiedad agraria y negociación de un tratado de libre comercio con los Estados Unidos.

His strategy for the Mexican farms involved a trade treaty with the US ---but this treaty isn't to help 5 million or 26 million campesinos ---it's to help rid the country of them. Why didn't Salinas or any of the others instead make an effort to bring the farms up to the level of US farms? Loans to buy tractors and other farm equipment? They purposely destroyed the farms ---they diverted water needed for irrigation to the maquilas. Why?

[FITZ]

Also it's good to keep in mind that all 5 former Mexican presidents receive $5 million dollars (dollars, not pesos) every year ---that's 10 times what former American presidents receive and that's in a country where 50 million people don't make even $5 a day. There's more than incompetence going on there, they very deliberately raid their own country. They know they need the safety valve of the US to keep this corrupt system going.

[Kojak1]

While he may have said his main concern is our National safety.....( What would you expect him to say in this situation ) He is first and foremost a "politician" and he is feeding the wolves at the door. Obviously since his administration's actions do not match his retoric there must be forces behind the curtain....either these forces are under his control and he is lying or they are beyond his control, so far....hopefully it is the later.
My arguement with the "vigilantees" has nothing to do with a blind trust in government .....the government rarely does anything efficiently of effectively.... my arguement is is two fold....The government can and should be the agency protecting our borders, as inept as they are it is their job and they could do it better than a "rag tag bunch of untrained civilians"..... and two, These untrained vigilantees will more than likely make the situation worse rather than better.... in fact they could either get killed or end up killing someone....

[Kojak1]

Had a friend once who was a Black Militant... He felt everything from the local church to the Federal government was conspiring to supress and control the black people. My answer to him is the same as my answer to you... To conspire or plan requires "intelligence " ....not to mention cooperation. Because the actions of different people result in a given situation does NOT mean the results were planned or even anticipated. Most people act in their own self interest. To assign the word "plan " to a series of acts by different people as some sort of concerted effort or plan give too much credit to the participants.
Rush Limbaugh often says that Democrats "plan" to keep a large portion of America " in need" of them.... to solve poverty, for example, would lose them their power base. They "need" the masses with their hand out asking for help to keep themselves in power. While the impact of much of what Democrats do ends up with this result I doubt it is a "plan".
While a lot of actions by politicians on both sides of the border neglects or even aids the illegal alien traffic I doubt it is a "plan" but more likely a confluence of acts done in the individuals self interest.....for example ...Why has Bush not acted more strongly in the illegal alien situation?... logic says the most probable reason is NOT a plan but that he is sucking up to the RAZA vote... He wants to not anger his Latin constituency, not to mention lose support of the big business interests that benefit from illegal alien labor. He is acting in HIS self interest not the Nations. (One of the flaws of our government is that we reward politicos who act NOT in the Nations interest but in the interest of individuals )

[FITZ]

Did you even read this part of what I posted to you: “En el campo mexicano sobran muchos millones de campesinos, pues su contribución al producto interno bruto es muy desproporcionada con su participación en el total poblacional. Por lo tanto, de 25 millones hay que reducir la población a unos 5 millones”.

Sounds like a plan to me. This was spoken by Salinas and seems to be the plan of every president in Mexico since ---and Fox is increasing the number that need to go.

[FITZ]

And of course the following paragraph then discusses his plan to bring in food instead from the US to force the campesinos out of business. Obviously things could have been done completely differently ---that government could have provided loans for the campesinos to buy machines ---or even allowed them to buy machines ---which of course we know isn't allowed. And the water for irrigation was diverted to the maquilas so the campesinos had to watch their crops wither away. It's very clear that Fox wants the campesinos gone from Mexico too ---one way or another.