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To: Brad C.; OrthodoxPresbyterian; RnMomof7
just ask your local clergy to marry you

I am my local clergy...LOL.

Marriage does not require the stamp of the state to be valid. It existed long before the state came along. The union is between the parties of the marriage. In the Christian faith, of course, we consider God to be one of he parties to the covenant. With God and the husband and wife in the presence of the church affirming their marriage, there is no need for the state.

The marriage license itself is viewed an unnecessary by the state. The "common law" marriage recognizes that the reality of a union precedes the intrusion of the state.

As a Christian bound by scripture to follow human laws which offer no offense, I struggle with determining if this "marriage license" requirement is an intrusion in God's domain. I've come to believe that it is.

The taxation/benefits issue grows out of the "marriage license" question. No one should be asking for or getting special infusions of tax money.

6 posted on 12/09/2002 6:24:21 AM PST by xzins
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To: xzins
I think the "common law" element comes into play when the two parties decide that the living arrangements are no longer workable, and seek the protections provided to legal spouses under the same duress. I would suspect that most parties citing the common law have not been married by the state or church.

I know when I got married by a preacher who is a very good friend of mine, we still had to have a witness sign the license, and a copy of it is on file at the local court house.

BTW, I would hope you did not take any offense, as none was intended.
7 posted on 12/09/2002 6:41:56 AM PST by Brad C.
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To: xzins
"marriage license" requirement is an intrusion in God's domain

God says: "vengence is mine", but he establishes the state as his ministers of vengence. Marriage licenses are a vestige of when our government used them as a tool in order to defend marriage.

9 posted on 12/09/2002 6:54:13 AM PST by Theophilus
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To: xzins
As a Christian bound by scripture to follow human laws which offer no offense, I struggle with determining if this "marriage license" requirement is an intrusion in God's domain. I've come to believe that it is.

As one familiar with God's law, I guess you understand that he made us Male and Female and that he ordained also that conjugal relations between the male and female be fruitful.

Softening up the heteros with the Birth Control most Christian couples these days consider their "right" as part of Planning their families, the State has for generations been obscuring the apparent differences between sex partners desirous (or not) of children and the Father and Mother -- Husband and Wife -- who not only form but obligate themselves to a family.

Why?

For all the useful idiot rant of the Libertarians and others, the fact is that the basic human condition is as Family, not the rabid individualism that informs our culture ... particularly our shrinks and sex therapists.

It is the family (as patterned after the Trinity) on which are based not only our most enduring bonds as human beings but also our sense of equal dignity despite the separate persons and different roles of family members and the notions of nationhood, much less community.

In destroying the family -- particularly the eradication of patriarchal authority in exchange for a Democratized Collective of individuals -- the State accomplishes two things:

(1) they weaken us absolutely, causing most citizens -- single mothers, impoverished, insane, failing, elderly who need Medicare, etc. -- to rely on the State instead of their families in the name of "independence"

(2) they usurp both Family and Faith as the source of all rights and justice. As arbiter and creator of our rights (to housing, to abortion, to assisted suicide, to all manner of perversion and even for-profit Free Speech porn featuring children ... so long as it's faked), they supplant and render meaningless and "private" the notion of the Creator as recognized in our Declaration as the source and guarantor of our human dignity and liberty.

It infuriates me, really, that so many folks get caught up in the sound and fury of gay rights, corporate benefits and taxation and fail to recognize that it's the marriage license which limited the State's ability to redefine marriage.

By restricting the marriage license to only those unions essentially (if not actually) capable of forming families, the integrity and meaning of marriage was preserved.

Marriage is not just a license for sex, self-fulfillment and economic benefit for the parties. It is also about the children born of that relationship. As an institution protected from the State's interference by the parameters of marriage license restrictions -- marriage offered some measure of justice for and recognization of the children naturally a part of the Family born of conjugal union.

Justice must needs be premised on reality ... on True and Enduring things.


62 posted on 12/10/2002 10:56:37 PM PST by Askel5
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To: xzins
The marriage license itself is viewed an unnecessary by the state. The "common law" marriage recognizes that the reality of a union precedes the intrusion of the state.

That would noly be true in states that recognize common law marriage. Most do not. Some recognize common law marriages if they occurred in another state that recognizes them.

64 posted on 12/11/2002 9:36:34 AM PST by afraidfortherepublic
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