Cruise ship outbreak sickens 212

CNN ^ | 10 Dec 2002

[Z-28]

Don't forget that the non-officer crews on these ships are mostly from 3rd World countries like Indonesia, the Philippines, Colombia, etc.

[Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)]

The facts are probably known by the “authorities,” but the general public is not going to be told about it. Therefore, we have to do what is right for ourselves, go by our gut feelings if you will, and skip the cruises. Our health is more important than helping the cruise ships stay afloat.

[G Larry]

Paul Harvey may have found the answer, seems the difference for one couple was that the husband used the ships pool.

[GirlShortstop]

Paul Harvey may have found the answer, seems the difference for one couple was that the husband used the ships pool.

LOL... combining your two comments reminds me of a swimming pool sign I saw:

This is our OOL
notice there's no P in it... keep it that way!

[Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)]

This will interest you and everybody else.

THE PANAMA NEWS

Volume 3, Number 21

November 10 – 23, 2002

Manila seamen's certification scam now in effect in Colon Besides the outright sale of certificates to unqualified persons, one of the lucrative practices in effect in the Panamanian consulate in Manila is the requirement that applicants for seamen's papers must have a physical examination by one of two clinics designated by consul Juan Carlos Escalona. It appears to be a kickback scheme, but under the Arnulfista-dominated Supreme Court decisions, the public has no right to know if it is. Now that same system is being applied in Colon, where most of the applicants are Panamanian rather than Filipino or Indonesian. Rafael Rapallo, the secretary of Merchant Marine Workers' Syndicate, complains that the Panama Maritime Authority branch in Colon has broken with the long-time practice of allowing physicals to be conducted at the free Seguro Social health care facilities and now requires applicants to use one of four private clinics, which charge up to $250 for the service. The authority claims that the doctors at these clinics attended a one-day seminar that makes them experts in occupational health, which Seguro's physicians are unqualified. Panama Maritime Authority Director Jerry Salazar has answered Rapallo's allegations by maintaining that he is not a crook. Salazar did not, however, specifically deny Rapallo's complaint.

[KC_for_Freedom]

Yes, this also follows the pattern of the airlines. Look the other way, inspect old ladies and claim security is better.

But watch on the cruise ships for subtle changes, like silverware prepackaged in plastic bags after washing, and sterilization plate storage systems, perhaps monitors at salad bars and cafe lines (you request, they serve). They will make changes where they belive the infection entered the system without telling the press everything that they know. I am not even sure that I don't even agree with this approach, since creating widespread panic may do more harm than what they are doing.

[fivecatsandadog]

they are also gathering info as to how authorities respond, etc. What they do, don't do; intelligence gathering purposes, sometimes.

BUMP!

Being that the Norwalk virus is not life-threatening and short-lived, yet highly contagious, I believe that the person or persons who "planted" the contaminant in these recent incidents is more interested in observing our reaction and response methodologies rather than making people sick. THIS time it's a practice-run. NEXT time, God help us.

[GOPJ]

Maybe it's the Saudi Shakedown.

Terrorist have been shaking down Saudis for so long it's an art form. Will terrorist now approach various cruise lines and offer to "protect" ships for a "small" fee. It's "go out of business" or "donate to the cause". Or will cruise line approach terrorist and offer money for security?

This whole thing smells fishy.

[GOPJ]

Maybe it's the Saudi Shakedown.

Terrorist have been shaking down Saudis for so long it's an art form. Will terrorist now approach various cruise lines and offer to "protect" ships for a "small" fee. It's "go out of business" or "donate to the cause". Or will cruise line approach terrorist and offer money for security?

This whole thing smells fishy.

[randita]

I'm not inclined to lean toward conspiracies.

Many ships docked in one location use local businesses for cleaning services, loading and unloading, catering, maintenance, etc. Local people employed by these businesses would have occasion to be on different ships throughout the week. If a group of them have the virus and cough or sneeze in different areas of the ship (kitchen, cabins, bathrooms, dining rooms, etc.), the germs are easily spread.

Or if those involved in catering are sick, they don't even have to go onboard for germs to spread.

The virus could have originated in Miami or in any one of the common ports of call.

For the time being, perhaps the best precaution would be to require anyone involved in any capacity with what goes on on a ship should be required to wear rubber gloves and a surgical mask.

[Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)]

I have to leave the house for a couple of hours. If there are any more threads, I'll catch up with them later. While I'm gone...keep out of cruise ships.

[mikenola]

I also suspect there is a terrorist connection here.

Time to ratchet up the buttkicking in the Middle East, IMO. I've always had this theory that the amount of Islamic Terrorism is inversely related to our military OPTEMPO in the Middle East.

Now that we've slowed down ops in Afghanistan and the Phillipenes, we get: Bali bombing, the various McDonalds bombing, Moscow theater,etc.

I know im preaching to the choir here, but folks, these are the same group doing these acts! They are what they call in the DoD , a "community of interest".

Increase the bomb tonnage in Southern Iraq, *lots* more Predator/Hellfile drone combos, mullah assasinations in the madrassas of Pakistan and Saudia Arabia. Then you'll see terrorism die back down.

[Diana Rose]

Could be a game of wolf, wolf, got ya. People show up sick a bunch of times...Next batch gets sick and everyone thinks its just Norwalk then we all find out it is something nasty for Christmas. Cruise ships would be a good way to seed the whole counrty with something. You have people in one place for a while so you can make sure that they are fully exposed then Bubbles and Buck from fly-over country USA goes home to pass along the bug. You could get a good cross section of people from around the country. Someone who would never think of going to NY or LA would go on a cruise. Tin foil hat of course in place.

[xm177e2]

It is very, very, very odd that these outbreaks are all occurring at the same time.

There are three major possibilities, in my mind:

1) someone or some group is deliberately poisoning the food
2) one Norwalk outbreak is causing the rest of them somehow
3) A change in conditions in the cruise ships/the environment is somehow allowing Norwalk virus to spread more easily

#2 and #3 especially seem pretty far-fetched but not impossible. I don't know if #2 can be ruled out by what scientists know about Norwalk.

[xm177e2]

I do NOT agree that it is a passenger, however. Why spend thousands over and over for multiple cruise tickets when one could simply infiltrate the food service which provides supplies to the ships?

If they were going to carry out a large-scale campaign like this, they might want to spread it multiple ways. On some ships, they would have employees; on others, they would use passengers. This would make it easier for al-Qaida (they don't have to sneak as many agents into the cruise industry) and harder for the FBI (the attackers' patterns would be less obvious).

Let's face it, when you've got Saudi Arabia at your back, cruise ship tickets are chump change. Better yet, if they activated a sleeper cell, the guys could use their own money (and they would look more legit, if they were from the right economic bracket to be taking a cruise, rather than a typical teenage al-Qaida jihadi. With no al-Qaida (or Iraqi) money moving through the system, tracking it back to them becomes more difficult.

[Stefan Stackhouse]

Then why not sprinkle it at the local China Buffet? Why not all over America? Why only cruise ships? IMHO, this is related to some facet of the cruise industry...a worker in the port, access to the ships, etc.

My theory: They think they are going to be able to successfully take down our economy by taking out one piece at a time until enough pieces are out that the whole thing colapses.

It won't work, of course, because a free market economy is far too resilliant for that,especially when the hits are one at a time and not all at once. A rigid, represess, backward economy like you can find in any Middle Eastern country, now that is another story. Such a strategy might very well work there, but not here. The AQ people might very well not be knowledgeable enough to understand that, however. Just because their plan won't work doesn't mean that they don't believe that it will work, and they will do what they believe will work, mistaken though their thinking may be.

[nicmarlo]

Does anyone remember Stephen King's novel The Stand?

I read that too long ago....refresh my memory, please; and I think your assessment is accurate.