Posted on 12/16/2002 11:06:17 AM PST by RetiredArmy
FUN WITH THE DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND
Many Boortz listeners are now frequent visitors to the Internet's premiere comment board for Democrats. It's called DemocraticUnderground.com. Over the weekend my ever-alert listeners brought two different conversation threads to my attention.
The first thread began with a suggestion by one Democrat that the Congress be equally divided between men and women. Why? Because "Congress is Unjust" That's why. This person didn't bother to explain why it would be "just" to deny to a voter the right to vote for a candidate of their choice. Here's your link to that thread. http://www.democraticunderground.com/duforum/DCForumID60/22942.html
The second thread is more alarming. Here we have a posting from some Democrat entitled "It's official. I'm a socialist at heart." Here you go:
- It's official, I'm a socialist at heart. Last night a friend drove my husband and I around after dinner to look at the Christmas lights. One area we went to, where my friend's in-laws live, had multi-million dollar homes. These houses look like office buildings or hotels and most have only two people (rich, old, white couples) living in them. I can't stand it. In a country where people are homeless, children have no medical insurance, and families go hungry how could anyone sleep in a home that would hold a small town. Aaarrrggg. My friends in-laws do not give to charity unless it puts their name out in public or helps them somehow. And they sure as hell don't do anything just to help someone else. These people have so much stuff they can only fit one of their cars in their 4 car garage because its full of the expensive crap they buy & don't have room for in their mansion. They travel all over the world, by can't pay for a day nurse so an elderly relative can stay in their own home. I really cannot stand rich, selfish people. I do believe in redistribution of wealth. Rich people do not get that way by themselves, they do it on the backs of others. Thank you for allowing me to rant.
Now don't get the mistaken impression that this posting was an anomaly. Here are some of the messages that followed. Each paragraph is a different post from a different member of DemocraticUnderground.com.
- And I couldn't agree more. Rich people don't earn their money.
- In a land where continuous warfare is a national priority, where the health needs of people are not prioritized and leaders are appointed via the corruption of precedence in its Supreme Court, socialism has a great appeal.
- Only misguided fools believe that the rich earned their spot as such. Only misguided fools believe that shit they tell you that they got to the top through "hardwork", "determination", and "American values." That is all bunk.
- Rich people got rich by SCREWING everyone else. Rich people stay rich by SCREWING everyone else EVEN HARDER. THAT is what you are seeing in America today. THAT is what you have seen in America for the last hundred years.
- But it doesn't have to be that way. We can build a better country. The constitution DOES NOT require capitalism. Capitalism is an economic system, democracy is a system of government. They are separable, and I believe, should be.
- These people got lucky with a stock split. My father died when I was 5, my mom finished college, became a teacher and raised 4 kids by herself, worked her ass off, scrimped, and did without. These people did not work harder than she did. My mother gives her money and time to many worth while causes and these rich f**ks go shopping for more crap they don't need.
- All liberals are socialists at heart We know that socialism (not necessarily the Marxian brand) will end up being the only way, since we believe that the government is there, not only to govern, but to help people as well.
Now, here's where it gets scary. One of the members of Democratic Underground answered a question as to just how his idea socialist society would be created. The questions asked of this person are in blue italics, followed by his responses. Read this and be VERY afraid.
- First, let me say that there is no blueprint as to how socialism in America will come about, or what it will look like exactly. What is presented below are the things I would propose and fight for in building toward a socialist society.
1. Would you abolish ownership of private property? In the means of production, yes. The factories, mills, shops and major sources of raw materials/natural resources would be immediately placed under social ownership and workers' control. The larger stores of distribution (e.g., WalMart) would also be placed under similar organization.
2. Would you abolish the free market? What "free market"? There is no "free market". That is a capitalist myth. Any "free market" that ever existed under capitalism died with the rise of the monopolies.
3. What exactly does "workers owning the means of production" look like to you? Shop committees of workers sitting down and planning out what they create, how much and for how long, in order to provide the needed products to the public. These committees would work together with similar bodies on a local, regional and national (and, eventually, international) level, in order to make sure enough items are produced for every human on the planet.
4. What sort of governmental system would you have? At first, elected Councils of Workers' Representatives, organs of mass democracy, on a neighborhood, municipal, regional and national (and, eventually, international) level, meeting to set public policy. Over time, these councils would cede more of its "power" to the shop committees, thus letting the state "wither away" into little more than an administrative body. But this last part can only really begin in earnest once workers around the world have liberated themselves from capitalism.
Here's the link if you would like to read this entire thread. Remember ... this is a comment board for Democrats. Now maybe you know why I refer to them as Democratic Socialists.
I tend to disagree with your assumtion that any of these rich liberals would contribute financially to any socialist program. It seems all they are able to do is insist that "rich republicans" support their social agenda.
I would point to the examples of the poor and downtrodden in the liberal bastions of Los Angeles and New York. The only time these liberals are free with their time or money is when news media is there in force.
Rich people who haven't earned it tend to be liberal (Hollywood is my prime example). I think it's some kind of guilt complex that makes them want to bash Republicans while ignoring their own hypocrisy. Pot-kettle-itis, to use a highly scientific term.
Poor people tend to be liberal, too, I've noticed. Especially the chronically poor. They stay chronically poor because they blame others (rich people and Republicans) for all their woes, thereby buying the liberal party line in full. They are encouraged to stay poor by the handouts they are given, the entitlement to which they are granted by, you guessed it, liberals.
As for socialism, how anybody could believe a system which discourages personal achievement by denying commensurate reward, is BETTER than capitalism, is truly a mystery. I suspect this is a clever fiction that poor, lazy people tell themselves to justify their desire for a bigger piece of the pie, without having to actually MERIT that piece.
Again, I am generalize. I'm sure there are lots of liberals who are merely naive, and no less hard-working than the rest of us. But I think they are the exception. But what do I know? I'm just an evil Republican (firmly middle class, and not ashamed of it in the least).
Next year, my parents will be retiring to a house that, while not even a million dollar house, would be in a lot of markets.
Between them, they have taught 60 years at a state college. That's taught as in 3-4 classes a semester. One grew up poor, the other middle class. 3 of 4 of my grandparents were immigrants -- 4 of 5, if you count the one who died when one of my parents was 2 years old. My parents were bloody frugal through their lives, which is why they can afford a luxury house, now that they're retiring.
I can't say that's the case of every one the people in their multi-million dollar houses you saw, but I dare say that's true of a fair number of them. Worked for, earned, and deserved.
You're socialist at heart? Fine. But that's one more reason I'm not.
Did she forget to mention that the owners of many or most of these mansions are likely DEMOCRATS?
Yeah, I don't care for the name-calling either. I try to approach threads with the perspective that at least someone on the thread is more informed than I am, which automatically makes me more polite and unlikely to get into a shouting match.
When some posters start getting confrontational, I just have to tell myself, "This person cares a lot more about this than I do, and I'm sure he/she has reason for the way they feel, so I'll just disengage right now." So far I haven't received any angry private messages, and only a handful of ad hominems in the forum.
Yeah, but here, at least they attack just you. When I've been on open forums, the left often end up wishing that harm befall my children for my beliefs. I don't receive that here.
Like 'twas said: The worst forum, except for all the rest.
I'm afraid that it is not true.
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