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Christmas Before Christ? The Surprising Story
United Church of God ^ | 12/200 | Jerold Aust

Posted on 12/21/2002 11:21:49 AM PST by DouglasKC

Christmas Before Christ?
The Surprising Story


Most people know the Bible doesn't mention - much less sanctify - Christmas. Does it make any difference as long as it's intended to honor God and bring families together?

by Jerold Aust

S


everal months ago the popular American comedic actor Drew Carey was interviewed on an equally popular television talk show, The View. Mr. Carey surprised the audience when he addressed the value of telling children the truth about Santa Claus.

"I don't think you should tell kids that there is a Santa Claus," he said. "That's the first lie you tell your children." Instead, "tell kids that Santa's a character we made up to celebrate a time of the season." Otherwise "when kids get to be 5 ... they realize their parents have been lying to them their whole life."

Earlier in the year the Arts & Entertainment cable television channel aired a program about Christmas titled Christmas Unwrapped: The History of Christmas. The promo for this program read:

"People all over the world celebrate the birth of Christ on December 25th. But why is the Savior's nativity marked by gift- giving, and was He really born on that day? And just where did the Christmas tree come from?

"Take an enchanting journey through the history of the world's favorite holiday to learn the origins of some of the Western world's most enduring traditions. Trace the emergence of Christmas from pagan festivals like the Roman Saturnalia, which celebrated the winter solstice."

These two programs addressed the fact that Santa Claus is fictitious and that Christmas and its trappings emanate from pagan Roman festivals. By no means are these the only sources of information about the background of Santa Claus and Christmas.

Is there more to these ancient traditions and practices than meets the eye? And, more important, does it make any difference whether we continue them?

Celebration of the sun god

It may sound odd that any religious celebration with Christ's name attached to it could predate Christianity. Yet the holiday we know as Christmas long predates Jesus Christ. Elements of the celebration can be traced to ancient Egypt, Babylon and Rome. This fact doesn't cast aspersions on Jesus; it does, however, call into question the understanding and wisdom of those who, over the millennia, have insisted on perpetuating an ancient pagan festival that has devolved through much of the world as Christmas.

Members of the early Church would have been astonished to think that the customs and practices we associate with Christmas would be incorporated into a celebration of Christ's birth. Not until several centuries had passed would Christ's name be attached to this popular Roman holiday.

As Alexander Hislop explains in his book The Two Babylons: "It is admitted by the most learned and candid writers of all parties that the day of our Lord's birth cannot be determined, and that within the Christian Church no such festival as Christmas was ever heard of till the third century, and that not till the fourth century was far advanced did it gain much observance" (1959, pp. 92-93).

As for how Dec. 25 became the date for Christmas day, virtually any book on the history of Christmas will explain that this day was celebrated in the Roman Empire as the birthday of the sun god. Explaining how Dec. 25 came to be selected as the supposed birthday of Jesus, the book 4000 Years of Christmas says: "For that day was sacred, not only to the pagan Romans but to a religion from Persia which, in those days, was one of Christianity's strongest rivals. This Persian religion was Mithraism, whose followers worshiped the sun, and celebrated its return to strength on that day" (Earl and Alice Count, 1997, p. 37).

Not only was Dec. 25 honored as the birthday of the sun, but a festival had long been observed among the heathen to celebrate the growing amount of daylight after the winter solstice, the shortest day of the year. The precursor of Christmas was in fact an idolatrous midwinter festival characterized by excess and debauchery that predated Christianity by many centuries.

Pre-Christian practices incorporated

This ancient festival went by different names in various cultures. In Rome it was called the Saturnalia, in honor of Saturn, the Roman god of agriculture. The observance was adopted by early Roman church leaders and given the name of Christ ("Christ mass," or Christmas) to conciliate the heathen and swell the number of the nominal adherents of Christianity.

The tendency on the part of third-century Catholic leadership was to meet paganism halfway-a practice made clear in a bitter lament by the Carthaginian philosopher Tertullian.

In 230 he wrote of the inconsistency of professing Christians. He contrasted their lax and political practices with the strict fidelity of the pagans to their own beliefs: "By us who are strangers to Sabbaths, and new moons, and festivals [the biblical festivals spelled out in Leviticus 23], once acceptable to God, the Saturnalia, the feasts of January, the Brumalia, and Matronalia, are now frequented; gifts are carried to and fro, new year's day presents are made with din, and sports and banquets are celebrated with uproar; oh, how much more faithful are the heathen to their religion, who take special care to adopt no solemnity from the Christians" (Hislop, p. 93).

Failing to make much headway in converting the pagans, the religious leaders of the Roman church began compromising by dressing the heathen customs in Christian-looking garb. But, rather than converting them to the church's beliefs, the church became largely converted to non-Christian customs in its own religious practices.

Although at first the early Catholic Church censured this celebration, "the festival was far too strongly entrenched in popular favor to be abolished, and the Church finally granted the necessary recognition, believing that if Christmas could not be suppressed, it should be preserved in honor of the Christian God. Once given a Christian basis the festival became fully established in Europe with many of its pagan elements undisturbed" (Man, Myth & Magic: The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Mythology, Religion, and the Unknown, Richard Cavendish, editor, 1983, Vol. 2, p. 480, "Christmas").

Celebration wins out over Scripture

Some resisted such spiritually poisonous compromises. "Upright men strove to stem the tide, but in spite of all their efforts, the apostasy went on, till the Church, with the exception of a small remnant, was submerged under Pagan superstition. That Christmas was originally a Pagan festival is beyond all doubt. The time of the year, and the ceremonies with which it is still celebrated, prove its origin" (Hislop, p. 93).

The aforementioned Tertullian, for one, disassociated himself from the Roman church in an attempt to draw closer to the teachings of the Bible.

He wasn't alone in his disagreement with such trends. "As late as 245 Origen, in his eighth homily on Leviticus, repudiates as sinful the very idea of keeping the birthday of Christ as if he were a king Pharaoh" (The Encyclopaedia Britannica, 11th edition, Vol. 6, p. 293, "Christmas").

Christmas was not made a Roman holiday until 534 (ibid.). It took 300 years for the new name and symbols of Christmas to replace the old names and meaning of the midwinter festival, a pagan celebration that reaches back so many centuries.

No biblical support for Santa Claus

How did Santa Claus enter the picture? Why is this mythical figure so closely aligned with the Christmas holiday? Here, too, many books are available to shed light on the origins of this popular character.

"Santa Claus" is an American corruption of the Dutch form "San Nicolaas," a figure brought to America by the early Dutch colonists (The Encyclopaedia Britannica, 11th edition, Vol. 19, p. 649, "Nicholas, St."). This name, in turn, stems from St. Nicholas, bishop of the city of Myra in southern Asia Minor, a Catholic saint honored by the Greeks and the Latins on Dec. 6.

He was bishop of Myra in the time of the Roman emperor Diocletian, was persecuted, tortured for the Catholic faith and kept in prison until the more tolerant reign of Constantine (ibid.). Various stories claim a link from Christmas to St. Nicholas, all of them having to do with gift-giving on the eve of St. Nicholas, subsequently transferred to Christmas Day (ibid.).

How, we might ask, did a bishop from the sunny Mediterranean coast of Turkey come to be associated with a red-suited man who lives at the north pole and rides in a sleigh pulled by flying reindeer?

Knowing what we have already learned about the ancient pre-Christian origins of Christmas, we shouldn't be surprised to learn that Santa Claus, too, is nothing but a figure recycled from ancient pagan beliefs.

The trappings associated with Santa Claus-his fur-trimmed wardrobe, sleigh and reindeer-reveal his origin from the cold climates of the far North. Some sources trace him to the ancient Northern European gods Woden and Thor, from which the days of the week Wednesday (Woden's day) and Thursday (Thor's day) get their designations (Earl and Alice Count, pp. 56-64). Others trace him even farther back in time to the Roman god Saturn and the Greek god Silenus (William Walsh, The Story of Santa Klaus, pp. 70-71).

Was Jesus born in December?

Most Bible scholars who have written on the subject of Jesus' birth conclude that, based on evidence in the Bible itself, there is no possible way Christ could have been born anywhere near Dec. 25.

Again we turn to Alexander Hislop: "There is not a word in the Scriptures about the precise day of [Jesus'] birth, or the time of the year when He was born. What is recorded there, implies that at what time soever His birth took place, it could not have been on the 25th of December. At the time that the angel announced His birth to the shepherds of Bethlehem, they were feeding their flocks by night in the open fields ... The climate of Palestine ... from December to February, is very piercing, and it was not the custom for the shepherds of Judea to watch their flocks in the open fields later than about the end of October" (Hislop, p. 91, emphasis in original).

He goes on to explain that the autumn rains beginning in September or October in Judea would mean that the events surrounding Christ's birth recorded in the Scriptures could not have taken place later than mid-October, so Jesus' birth likely took place earlier in the fall (Hislop, p. 92).

Further evidence supporting Jesus' birth in the autumn is that the Romans were intelligent enough not to set the time for taxation and travel in the dead of winter, but during more-favorable conditions. Since Joseph's lineage was from Bethlehem, and since he had to travel from Nazareth in Galilee to Bethlehem, and since his expectant wife Mary traveled with him, it would have been nearly impossible for Joseph and Mary to make the trip in the winter. As recorded by Luke, Mary delivered Jesus in Bethlehem during the time of census and taxation-which no rational official would have scheduled for December.

What difference does it make?

The Bible gives us no reason-and certainly no instruction-to support the myths and fables of Christmas and Santa Claus. They are tied to the ways of this world and contrary to the ways of Christ and His holy truth. "Do not learn the way of the Gentiles," God tells us (Jeremiah 10:2).

Professing Christians should examine the background of the Christmas holiday symbols and stop telling their children that Santa Claus and his elves, reindeer and Christmas gift-giving are connected with Jesus Christ. Emphatically they are not! God hates lying. "These six things the LORD hates, yes, seven are an abomination to Him: a proud look, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that are swift in running to evil, a false witness who speaks lies, and one who sows discord among brethren" (Proverbs 6:16-19).

Recommended Reading

Does it matter to God which days and customs we celebrate to honor Him? Why do so many of our holidays have strange customs sanctioned nowhere in the Bible?

Many people are shocked to discover the origins of most popular holidays. They're also surprised to find that the feast days God commands in the Bible-the same days kept by Jesus Christ and the apostles-are almost universally ignored.

Be sure to request your free copies of the booklets Holidays or Holy Days: Does It Matter Which Days We Keep? and God's Holy Day Plan: The Promise of Hope for All Mankind.

Christ reveals that Satan the devil is the father of lies (John 8:44). Parents should tell their children the truth about God and this world's contrary and confusing ways. If we don't, we only perpetuate the notion that it is acceptable for parents to lie to their children.

Can a professing Christian promote a pagan holiday and its symbols as something that God or Christ has approved? Let's see what God thinks about people using customs and practices rooted in false religion to worship Him and His Son. We find His views clearly expressed in both the Old and New Testament.

God specifically commands His people not to do what early church leaders did when they incorporated idolatrous practices and relabeled them Christian. Before they entered the Promised Land, God gave the Israelites a stern warning: "Take heed to yourself that you are not ensnared to follow them [the inhabitants of the land],... and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, 'How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do likewise.'

"You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way; for every abomination to the LORD which He hates they have done to their gods ... Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it" (Deuteronomy 12:30-32, emphasis added throughout).

Many centuries later the apostle Paul traveled to and raised up churches in many gentile cities. To the members of the Church of God in Corinth, a city steeped in idolatry, Paul wrote: "... What fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God ... Therefore 'Come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, and I will receive you.' ... Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God"
(2 Corinthians 6:14-17; 7:1).

Instead of allowing members to rename and celebrate customs associated with false gods, Paul's instructions were clear: They were to have nothing to do with them. He similarly told Athenians who were steeped in idolatry, "Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent" (Acts 17:30).

God alone has the right to decide the special days on which we should worship Him. Jesus Christ plainly tells us that "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth" (John 4:24). We cannot honor God in truth with false practices adopted from the worship of nonexistent gods.

Jesus said: "This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men" (Mark 7:6-7). With God no substitutes are acceptable. It makes no difference that Christians mean well when they observe Christmas. God is not amused or pleased.

The knowledge of how to honor Almighty God, who made us, preserves us and gives us eternal life, has been made available to you. Will you honor God or follow the traditions of mankind?



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: axegrinders; christ; christmas; kooks; scroogewasright
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To: MWS; 2sheep
I would like to apologize about one thing I said in that post. I should not have questioned your Christianity. It was mean spirited and inappropriate and I was a bit caught up in my emotions. However, that said, I stand by my comment that it is wrong for Christians to deny the importance of the incarnation of Christ. It was no excuse for my comment, though, and for that I apologize.
301 posted on 12/27/2002 9:43:58 AM PST by MWS
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To: fso301
I'm pretty sure that steeples were not invented to provide landmarks. That aspect is simply incidental.

Have you ever checked out what the OT "groves" were that Jehova found so despicable?

Have you ever made the connection between groves, fertility worship, and forbidden gods of fertility?

Do you really think that it blesses God that those claiming to be 'His people' refuse to separate themselves from traditions, practices, and symbols that He banned in OT times and has never since blessed?

302 posted on 12/27/2002 11:37:34 AM PST by Eagle Eye
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood
>It's called begging the question, an informal fallacy. Right on the money.

So the Satanist supports and agrees with the Apostate.  What a team you make!  How right of the Lord to include the Lukewarm with the Cold.

303 posted on 12/27/2002 2:59:49 PM PST by 2sheep
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To: MWS; DouglasKC; ALS; Eagle Eye; Prodigal Daughter; Thinkin' Gal
>You still have yet to substantiate your claims that Christianity and Christmas was syncretized in a manner that does not rely on post hoc fallacies.  I am not going to bother with this thread until this is done, as I have much more important things to turn my attention to than the claims of a pharisee.  (And yes, I still say these things in love out of a concern for your soul, because I see that you have strayed into several grave errors.)

That is the old "prove it to me" demonic argument for those who refuse sound doctrine.  It is useless arguing with the blind who follow Nicolaitan overlords into the ditch.  If you don't prefer Truth to Tradition, then you have chosen your way.  Party hard.  Time is short.

Mt 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

Re 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

The noise of your party is so loud you have become deaf.

~~~

At least you were warned.


S.O.L. 8/23/01

304 posted on 12/27/2002 3:11:16 PM PST by 2sheep
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To: 2sheep
So the Satanist supports and agrees with the Apostate.

Talk about a self-righteous pharisee...

305 posted on 12/27/2002 4:28:24 PM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood
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To: 2sheep
Again, may the blessings of the Lord Jesus Christ be upon you during this Holy Season, and may the glory of His Grace fill your heart and your life.
306 posted on 12/27/2002 5:22:55 PM PST by MWS
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To: Eagle Eye
I'm pretty sure that steeples were not invented to provide landmarks. That aspect is simply incidental.

You may be correct but to convince me, I'd need to see evidence. I can't recall seeing steeples on Egyptian temples, in ancient Greek architecture or, in pre-Christian Roman architecture. Actually, I don't recall seeing steeples in any pre-Christian architecture at all. I'm no expert so if you can point me to examples of pagan pre-Christian temples having steeples, I'd greatly appreciate it and will re-evaluate my position accordingly. I'm leery of textual references because they're so hard to reference. However, a picture or a drawing would be worth a thousand words.

Have you ever checked out what the OT "groves" were that Jehova found so despicable?

Never in the sense of directed study. I've read things here and there but don't have any set opinions. I dimly recall something in OT scripture about "spreading trees" but I never thought of them as conifers as most conifers have an upright habit.

Have you ever made the connection between groves, fertility worship, and forbidden gods of fertility?

Again, I've never directed much study effort into this area.

Do you really think that it blesses God that those claiming to be 'His people' refuse to separate themselves from traditions, practices, and symbols that He banned in OT times and has never since blessed?

I would say no. Fortunately, God looks at our attitudes. Otherwise, we'd be lost as there are so many things that Christians do which have pagan origins. For example, the Olympics have a pagan origin yet I've never heard a Christian condemn the Olympics or forbid participation in track and field events.

307 posted on 12/27/2002 9:07:54 PM PST by fso301
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To: MWS; DouglasKC; Eagle Eye; ALS; Crazymonarch; Prodigal Daughter
>>"Evangelization" is a buzz word used by the globalist change agents in the seeker-sensitive apostate churches.

>On the contrary, evangelization is a real word with a real meaning that is at the very basis of what it means to be Christian.

Here are clips of three articles on "Evangelization" --

A HOUSE OF HERESY... USING THE LORD'S NAME IN VAIN
By: Paul Proctor

 
On September 2nd (2001) the New York Times reported the following:  "Aaron Sorkin, the executive producer of "The West Wing" on NBC, says he hopes to break a longstanding network taboo this coming television season: he wants a character to curse in a way that uses the Lord's name in vain."

As Cable Applies Pressure, Network TV Spouts Expletives 

Agape Press began their report on the shocking announcement with, "Parents Beware!" while various conservative commentators busied themselves rallying the troops to make their voices heard by television executives. It seems that writers for the big three networks have been commissioned by producers to begin including in their scripts for the new fall lineup all sorts of language that Christians will obviously find offensive, the worst of which is of course "using the Lord's name in vain".

Yes, it is sad to watch our culture morally plummeting before our eyes, not by default mind you, but by design. If nothing else this story should put and end to any additional argument or speculation as to the liberal agenda. There is no slippery slope involved here, my friends. This is clearly a swan dive into the filthy abyss. Only a fool would deny that the primary goal and purpose here is outright rebellion against God.

However, before we start sending our flaming letters of "righteous indignation" to secular society for "using the Lord's name in vain", perhaps we should get our own house in order first. So what's wrong with the language of the church today? Are we too, guilty of breaking the third commandment?

You see, not only does the "GD" word qualify as "using the Lord's name in vain", so does invoking the name of Christ to carry out occult agendas like "evangelization", (church-growth via ecumenism) which for the record, is not "The Great Commission". Whatever you do, don't confuse "evangelization" with evangelism. Evangelization was designed and implemented by demonically led church growth gurus to win "people groups", (countries, cultures, cities and communities, etc.) into a socialistic system of christianized collectivism known as "dominion theology" using the tactics and manipulation of the Hegelian Dialectic or "consensus process". The "church growth movement", made popular by Willow Creek Community Church and Saddleback Community Church is the product of Fuller Theological Seminary. Evangelism, on the other hand, is the Christian's call to simply "preach the gospel to every living creature" that they may respond personally and individually to Jesus Christ in repentance and faith under the guidance, direction, power and conviction of the Holy Spirit. Evangelization and evangelism are two entirely different things. Confusing the two has subsequently led many well-meaning Christians and missionaries into working for the enemy "in the name of Christ".

Far more shocking and outrageous to me than the indecent language of unregenerate Hollywood actors is the number of beguiled believers being recruited by their own local church into various "movements", "networks", "conferences", "missions teams" and "visioning sessions" where attendees are piously instructed to leave their doctrinal differences at the door "for the cause of Christ". Well, DON'T YOU DO IT! The cause of Christ is not achieved by sacrificing truth. Today's wolves and blind guides may be winning the world "in Jesus' name", but they are certainly not winning it for Him.

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matthew 7:21-23)

Did the Lord tell Noah to build an ark big enough, fancy enough and entertaining enough for everyone to enter and enjoy? Did the Lord send Moses back to Egypt to transform it into a Jewish nation? Did Joshua have Israel gather around Jericho to promote "tolerance, diversity and unity" in the name of the Lord? We seem to have again forgotten here that Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world". He came to save you and me FROM THE WORLD not TO THE WORLD or WITH THE WORLD! Unfortunately, the gospel is being re-invented in much the same way socialist/liberals re-invented government; by attracting large crowds of jaded consumers with celebrities, entertainment, drama and a touchy-feely, group-centered theology all designed to condition them into a dependency, not on Christ, but on the collectivist communes of a global religion. With an unbiblical emphasis on human relationships guided by the artificial wisdom of "Christian psychology" (oxymoron), "evangelization" is successfully seducing mainstream Christianity into an apostasy that is nothing but Christian-flavored socialism.

In career advancing cooperation, today's pseudo shepherds of feelings and finance market this narcissistic gospel to manipulate the flock into unequally yoking themselves to the world's goats in preparation for that charming miracle worker who will soon come and deceive many with "signs and lying wonders". In their blindness, the deceived will be led through the peer pressure of "mentoring" down a primrose path Jesus called "the broad way" by a delusion of illusion that will stir their emotions, stimulate their flesh and steer them away from eternal life in Christ.

Now don't get me wrong. Christians should BY ALL MEANS protest the filth and godlessness we see on TV, not just for the good of our children, but for the good of society as a whole. We are to be the "salt of the Earth". No, I don't like hearing my Lord's name used in an unholy way either. But all the outrage in the world isn't going bring the lost to Christ in a house of heresy. What glory is it to God if we lead men and women into the freedom of faith in Christ only to have them led back into the bondage of group-think, idol worship and U.N. pantheism by demonically powered cults like Promise Keepers, Willow Creek and Women of Faith? No, the postmodern church is going to have to do ITS repenting FIRST if they expect anyone else to follow by example.

"Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." (Matthew 7:5)



 

 DIAPRAX GOES TO Seminary ~ by Paul Proctor -- excerpt:

Commenting on:  
'Interactive team-building seminar' called cutting-edge way of learning 

For those unacquainted with the term 'Diaprax', it is simply another word for the Hegelian Dialectic or consensus process -- a deceitful procedure designed to bring about change through conflict and compromise that was conceived in the late 1700's by transformational Marxist, Georg Wilhelm Fredric Hegel who sought, as occult-led globalists do to this day, ‘unity in diversity' – a term many of us became familiar with under the Clinton Administration. Diaprax, a word coined by author and teacher Dean Gotcher, essentially brings together people of diverse and often opposing backgrounds, worldviews and belief systems in hopes they will forfeit their own values, traditions and absolutes for the emotional rewards of group acceptance.
...
Do yourself a favor and read the Baptist Press article above. What you'll see is the dialectic language of a brave new world that lures its targets with words like, 'interactive', 'image-rich', 'cutting edge', 'futurist', 'new learning strategy', 'rewired', 'leadership', 'team-building', 'transition', 'audience', 'participative', 'entrepreneurial', 'next millennium', 'whatever it takes', 'dialog', 'evaluate', 'programming', 'new paradigm', 'image-based', 'carving ministries', 'casting ministries', 'experiential momentum', 'passion-driven', 'purpose-driven', 'success', 'non-relevant lectures', 'post-modern', 'concepts', 'solidifying', 'invest', 'money', 'resources', 'conversational', 'intentionally relational', 'share experiences', and 'connecting'.

Words you WON’T see in the article are God, Jesus Christ, cross, sin, rebellion, repentance, confession, forgiveness, grace, mercy, wisdom, love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance, the Holy Spirit, edification, sanctification, glorification or even salvation. Why? -- Because this 'model of things to come for teaching in our churches'  is not about the Gospel of Christ. It is about avoiding it at all costs.

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." – 2nd Timothy 4:3-4


>>> Paul Proctor - archives <<<




THE WORLD CHRISTIAN MOVEMENT EVANGELISM VS. EVANGELIZATION ~ by Albert James Dager - excerpt:  
Evangelization no longer seeks to bring people to a saving knowledge of Christ in repentance, but rather to "insert" a "Christian presence" in geographical regions, adapting the gospel to regional cultures by telling them that God "loves" them and has a plan for them, rather than proclaiming the "one and ONLY salvation through Jesus Christ" and renouncing of the world. 

308 posted on 12/27/2002 10:53:16 PM PST by 2sheep
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To: fso301
Fortunately, God looks at our attitudes.

God craves those that dilligently seek truth and righteousness, not those who merely accept what is handed to them.

"Seek and ye shall find", it says.

You have been told, you are now responsible to seek the truth. If you choose to let it slide after today, you can never say you weren't told.

309 posted on 12/28/2002 7:14:24 AM PST by Eagle Eye
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To: Eagle Eye
You have been told, you are now responsible to seek the truth

Actually, you have also been told. To help you out, I've included the following links from respected bible commentaries concerning Jeremiah 10. I also provided a link from the Jewish Bible concerning Jeremiah 10. Verses 4-5 are in my opinion key to understanding why this scripture refers to a totem pole like idol. A christmas tree definitely stands upright but has no resemblance to a palm tree. A totem would bear a closer resemblance. The Jewish Bible refers to them as "pillars in a field of cucumbers". Certainly not how one would envisage Christmas trees.

Matthew-Henry
http://www.ccel.org/h/henry/mhc2/MHC24010.HTM

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown
http://www.ccel.org/j/jfb/jfb/JFB24.htm#Chapter10

Jewish Bible
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Bible/Jeremiah10.html

I'm still waiting for links to pictures, drawings or murals of ancient pagan temples with steeples.

310 posted on 12/28/2002 11:15:15 AM PST by fso301
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To: fso301
Actually, you have also been told.

Told of or warned of what? What practice am I advocating that invovles idols or idolotry-ridden rituals and celbrations? What dangers to my fellowship are there in NOT celebrating traditonal holidays with pagan and idoltrous roots? You won't catch me celebrating Mardi Gras, either!

Those who advocate and justify traditional Christmas and Easter celebrations are advocationg and justifying precisely what I have described.

311 posted on 01/02/2003 8:50:41 AM PST by Eagle Eye
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To: fso301
Actually, you have also been told.

Told of or warned of what? What practice am I advocating that invovles idols or idolotry-ridden rituals and celbrations? What dangers to my fellowship are there in NOT celebrating traditonal holidays with pagan and idoltrous roots? You won't catch me celebrating Mardi Gras, either!

Those who advocate and justify traditional Christmas and Easter celebrations are advocating and justifying precisely what I have described.

312 posted on 01/02/2003 8:51:18 AM PST by Eagle Eye
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To: Eagle Eye
And a Bump for the actual PAGAN holiday of Equinox, stolen by the Christian Church and called Easter.

I hope your children enjoyed the Pagan tradition of hunting for Eggs and gifts.

Life springs anew, it is spring, it is a time to celebrate the renewal of life.
313 posted on 04/20/2003 11:00:44 AM PDT by Aric2000 (Are you on Grampa Dave's team? I am!! $5 a month is all it takes, come join!!!)
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To: Aric2000
I hope your children enjoyed the Pagan tradition of hunting for Eggs and gifts.

I hope you're being sarcastic. We don't celebrate Easter. That should have been clear in this thread.

FWIW, my kids went to the mall. I worked.

314 posted on 04/20/2003 8:48:39 PM PDT by Eagle Eye (There ought to be a law against excessive legislation.)
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