Fresh debate over human origins

BBC News ^ | 24 December 2002 | staff

[Gary Boldwater]

>How did nothing without any catalyst result in an ever >expanding universe?

God must have created it.

[PatrickHenry]

Shutting down placemarker.

[f.Christian]

bi unconnected polar...evolutionism!

[f.Christian]

bttt

[gore3000]

They think some of these ancient people interbred with African hominids, contributing to the gene pool of modern humans.

The evidence denies the above. Both archaeological and DNA evidence - from actual DNA found in three separate locations - shows that our closest possible ancestors - the Neanderthals - could in no way have intermixed with Homo Sapiens and produced viable offspring. What we have here is much nonsense from the evolutionists trying to talk away the facts.

The new evidence, published online in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, is based on an analysis of data from the human genome project - the effort to map the entire human genetic blueprint.

The above shows it to be total nonsense. There is no reference point. The only non Homo-Sapiens DNA that has been found is from Neanderthals and that one has been shown to be too far from ours for any intermixing or any ancestor/descendant relationship to have been possible. This is junk science - just like most of the garbage written by evolutionists.

[ASOC]

I read this book - where the guy figured humans came from -like, life boats, from a damaged starship.

These life boats hit Earth, like all over - and because they could not build to their level of tech - a bunch died - but a bunch didn't......and they are here to today, or at least their children, you know, like the dolphins.

A really cool book...now if we could only find the dried remains of the starship lifeboats.......more fun.

[stanz]

450 mg of eskalith CR about eighteen times a days oughta do the trick.

LOL
I'm always amazed at the responses on the evo threads.

[Junior]

The evidence denies the above.

And yet the professionals -- the guys who actually know what they are talking about and do the actual work -- don't think the evidence denies it. It's a wonder you're even on this thread, as neither side being debated assumes the validity of Biblical creation or ID and are approaching the problem from a purely scientific point of view.

[Junior]

The only problem with the "man came from another star" scenario is our obvious relatedness to all other critters on this planet (LBB's protestations notwithstanding). Chimps are at least 95 percent identical and we even share genetic code with the lobster (not a lot, but more than enough to rule out humans coming from another world).

[longshadow]

and we even share genetic code with the lobster ....

Ah; that explains my latent fear of small dishes filled with warm butter....

[PatrickHenry]

The only problem with the "man came from another star" scenario is our obvious relatedness to all other critters on this planet (LBB's protestations notwithstanding).

At least a year ago, I posted a scenario where a ship of interstellar castaways ends up the "adam & eve" of their world, and their distant descendants (ignorant of their origins) try to figure it all out. As soon as they realize that they are related to nothing on their world, they would conclude either that they were castaways, or that they were magically created in situ. But we don't have that problem. Everywhere we look we see that we are part of a great inter-related web of life on Earth.

[ASA Vet]

I make no secret I am an Atheist Conservative

You've hit on the route problem in discussing religion with supernaturalists.
They don't believe you can be a conservative,
unless you've bought in their particular supernatualist belief system.
Naturalists on the other hand believe supernatualists can't be real conservatives since they've demonstrated a belief in magic, (a liberal trait.)
It's really a waste of time even trying to carry on a conversation between the two groups, as there is no common ground..

[Sentis]

I agree but I think I just stumbled onto a way to debate the creationists.

First get them to tell you how old the Earth and the Universe is.


If they say they universe is 6000 years old. Then ask them if they have ever looked in a telescope. If they have, they can see further back in time than 6000 years actually just looking into the sky itself allows them to see further back than that. Since you can see no God out in the Universe creating the suns that are 6000 light years away then that particular mythology is either a lie or their God Lies to its creation by creating a universe whose physical laws do not coorespond with observed phenomenon. That God isn't the Christian God as he is suppossed to be the God of truth so we suggest a God that is prone to tell lies to its creation such as that Islamic God :)

[Sentis]

Oh no Gore3000 you didnt but your head into this debate now I got you. You are stateing that we have DNA from the Neanderthal. HMMM you believe that the Earth is a little over 6000 years old. Hmmm how can we have that DNA when Neanderthals died out before your God created the Earth? In fact the fact you believe that Neanderthals exist at all disproves your antievolutionist rants. Oh you messed up big time here. You see by suppossing that Neanderthals are not Human and can not breed with Humans you suppose that Neanderthals are a separate species from Human . This supposition means that there were other species of Humans that are not your "Children of God" and that they died out. How can you justify that? How can you argue that there is no evolution and that God created the Earth as it is when you admit that the Human tree has other branches such as the Neanderthal? Where did these other Humans come from were they mistakes made by God and if they were mistakes how can an omnipotent God make mistakes. Trust me Now that I have caught you weighing in on this thread your post will find its way over to the other.

[PatrickHenry]

You will not convince the target of your remarks, but please be assured that your posts are fine, and your efforts are much-appreciated.

[Johnny Shear]

FR extreme left wing whacks...

Does this mean if someone believes in Evolution (Or at least the possibility of the theory) that they're a "Left Winger"?

[Johnny Shear]

Who created God?

The answer, as I learned in Catholic school is, "He always was, is, and always will be". He has no beginning and no end.

I always thought that was a pretty convenient answer myself. Of course I guess they call it "Faith" for a reason. (But don't say that to a fundementalist, it makes them mad!!)

[Sentis]

I dont care if I convince the target of anything he is far too far gone. I do feel a need to point out his lies because he could mislead others into his sick perversion. Look at fchristian. I think it's sick that a person who professes his moral superiority as a Christian has the audacity to outright lie.

[Gary Boldwater]

Thanks! I wonder why others beat around the bush on this question.

[Thommas]

Chimps are at least 95 percent identical and we even share genetic code with the lobster (not a lot, but more than enough to rule out humans coming from another world).

Hmm. Just for the sake of debate, it could be argued that any creature, anywhere in the universe, has developed from a DNA infrastructure; that reproductive life in an atmosphere such as earth's can only exist with a DNA genetic structure. Furthermore, with all of the thousands of physical constructs observable, either past or present, on this planet, the most sentient, clever and creative construct is that of the hominid. The best of that group is homo sapiens sapiens.

Therefore, one could argue that no matter where the planet is in the universe, if it has the same elements and atmospere available, life development will be similar genetically.