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Who's Germany? A Study In Irrelevance
Vanity
| 12/26/02
| Sparta
Posted on 12/26/2002 5:06:45 PM PST by Sparta
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What say all of you.
1
posted on
12/26/2002 5:06:45 PM PST
by
Sparta
To: Sparta
Now, Germany has one of the largestest economies in Europe and one of Europe's finest militaries. But, they are no longer the global power they once were. Finest militaries???? Really????
Didn't they have to borrow a old Ukrainian tug boat to transport token troops to Afghanistan?
Germany is finished..
2
posted on
12/26/2002 5:17:55 PM PST
by
qam1
To: Sparta
I work with a number of Germans, and other Europeans. My honest opinion is that they think they are so brainwashed about America by their own liberal press that they haven't a clue.
If you think CNN is bad, try a few straight weeks of CNN International & SkyNews-- you'll be hating America too! I have more faith in Germany than you-- but the EU must be severely reduced in power for Germany to regain her former stature.
3
posted on
12/26/2002 5:18:37 PM PST
by
RobFromGa
To: Sparta
Good Post
4
posted on
12/26/2002 5:19:16 PM PST
by
Fiddlstix
To: qam1
I meant that in a comparison to everyone else in Europe. Also, the Germans cut their military in a time of war this year.
5
posted on
12/26/2002 5:19:41 PM PST
by
Sparta
To: qam1
They must be talking a different Germany and France than I knew.When the French beat the Germans at anything that will also be the day. The English will be the first nation to succumb to Sharia law. They are by far the biggest immigrant nation in Europe. They absorbed all the rejects from their abandoned colonies.
6
posted on
12/26/2002 5:29:12 PM PST
by
meenie
To: All
We have a neighbor kid who signed up for the Army last year.
He is being sent to Germany in a month or so.
WHY do we have troops in Germany at ALL anymore?
It's a European joke? Or what?
7
posted on
12/26/2002 7:08:32 PM PST
by
Birdlady
To: Birdlady; Sparta
One fact that is easily overlooked is that, during the Cold War, our troops were not merely stationed in Europe to defend their host countries, but our interests as well.
As for the current state of affairs, if you believe our troops have no reason to be there, it is useless to explain why they are there.
8
posted on
12/26/2002 7:15:05 PM PST
by
1rudeboy
To: Birdlady
We've still got about 75,000 GIs (and their dependents) in Germany in 26 locations. They don't have a mission and, when they had to send tanks to Kosovo, found they couldn't get them there before they could be sent from the states.
The cost of maintaining our ground forces, and their dependents with the necessary schools, medical facilities, PXs, etc. in Germany is gigantic. It's way past time we brought them home.
9
posted on
12/26/2002 7:18:52 PM PST
by
caltrop
To: 1rudeboy
Well 1rudeboy, why don't you take a crack at explaining it anyway. I served as a Colonel in our Army in Europe and would love to have your expert, first hand opinion on why our troops should remain in Germany.
10
posted on
12/26/2002 7:21:36 PM PST
by
caltrop
To: caltrop
You have an interesting tone for a Colonel. How about the doctrine of "forward defense?" Surely you picked it up at West Point.
11
posted on
12/26/2002 7:28:44 PM PST
by
1rudeboy
To: 1rudeboy
Prior to the end of the Cold War the Army had a mission in Europe. At that point, and for the 35 years up to that point, our forces in Europe were there for a reason.
You'll find my tone is fairly consistent among Colonels who don't suffer fools lightly.
12
posted on
12/26/2002 7:33:11 PM PST
by
caltrop
To: caltrop
45, not 35, years up to that point.
13
posted on
12/26/2002 7:37:11 PM PST
by
caltrop
To: Sparta
I appreciate your view on germany. However, I don't agree at all with the tone of it. Germany has contributed a great deal to european and american civilizations. does teh name martin luther mean nothing to christians? or to people who remember the making of europe into something special? Germany's had thousands of years of a very important history. Weren't germans among the group that toppled Rome so many years ago? It is true that many rotten intellectuals have come from germany and that two terrible wars were started by the germans. But it would be a terrible thing for the muslims to rule germany. I have faith and hope that this won't happen.
My opinion also is the Germans should shut off new immigration and seek to make their nation prosperous, they should, just like us withdraw from the EU, the UN and the WTO.
The Germans have also been tremendous hosts to the US military since 1945. They have domestic political forces that keep them out of this US led war on iraq. I think we should respect that. Hasn't germany sent troops to afghanistan? I'm sure they had troops in our kosovo adventure from 3 years ago. They have been a good ally for 50 years, it is time to forget those 2 wars from previous that. We should want to see a strong germany, not a damaged germany. The absorption of the east in the last 13 years has been a huge sacrifice for the west germans.
I note also that when patrick henry gave his famous speech in the virginia state legislature at the time of the revolution about a third of the members in that legislature had german as their first language. If germany is so bad as you say, then america must be also because so many americans have german stock in them.
To: caltrop
Our forces were there to check the Soviet expansion into Europe and, frankly, to make sure the Krauts never got the idea of starting a Fourth Reich.
15
posted on
12/26/2002 7:40:15 PM PST
by
Sparta
To: caltrop
My experience is that Colonels tend to be more circumspect before determining whether someone is a fool, but I like your reply nonetheless.
My comment in #8 was directed to those that feel that our troops need to be returned from Europe as an article of faith . . . they are the ones with which it is useless to argue. As for me, I agree with the Pentagon's current assessment: that future conflicts will be regional; that those conflicts will come from unexpected quarters; and that our forces need to be positioned so that they may quickly respond to any such threats.
16
posted on
12/26/2002 7:42:38 PM PST
by
1rudeboy
To: Sparta
Those are good reasons for our forces to have been there. But they don't need to be there now. We can satisfy our obligation to NATO by leaving our Air Force bases in Europe but the idea that we should leave 75,000 GIs, at huge expense, sitting in Germany with no mission is indefensible.
17
posted on
12/26/2002 7:47:51 PM PST
by
caltrop
To: Red Jones
First of all, this is not an attack on the German people, this an attack on the German view of the world and liberty. Our ideas of liberty came from three places primarily: Greece, Rome, and Britain. Most the German immigrants have ASSIMILATED into the primarily Anglo-Saxon culture of America.
America is great because we have ignored the statism expoused by Germany and all the other Eurotrash and embraced the Greek-Roman-British traditions of liberty.
18
posted on
12/26/2002 7:48:16 PM PST
by
Sparta
To: Sparta
bump
To: caltrop
I, personally, think that the troops should be redeployed to Poland because I think Russia is NOT our friend like Dubya and many others think.
20
posted on
12/26/2002 7:50:02 PM PST
by
Sparta
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