Posted on 12/28/2002 9:08:43 AM PST by Willie Green
Edited on 04/13/2004 2:02:44 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
Social Security as it exists is a train wreck in the making. Why would anyone want to add more passengers when, instead, a new track is desperately needed?
President Bush reportedly is considering an agreement with Mexico that would extend benefits to Mexicans who work legally in the United States. It's a carrot the president cannot afford to dangle.
(Excerpt) Read more at pittsburghlive.com ...
Both major political parties perpetuate The Big Lie regarding Social Security. The Big Lie has existed since Social Security's inception. The debate over "privatization" is only the latest version of The Big Lie.
The Big Lie is that Social Security is some kind of retirement savings plan.
It is NOT.
Social Security is a socialist income redistribution scheme, nothing else.
Those who are working are taxed to provide a "safety net" for those who are less fortunate.
Originally, this meant retirees and surviving dependents.
Congress has, of course, complicated it far beyond this over the last 65 years.
But one fact remains: it is NOT a "savings plan", it is an income redistribution scheme.
A major facet of The Big Lie is that "we have to do something so that Social Security remains solvent in the future.
Poppycock!
In today's age of modern computerization, the computation for operating an income redistribution scheme that remains perpetually solvent is quite simple:
The only change necessary to the current system is that monthly payments to eligible recipients would be a variable amount, not fixed.
THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO NEED FOR A MULTI-TRILLION DOLLAR "TRUST" FUND!!!
Congress should NEVER have been permitted to confiscate so much money from the American People in the name of The Big Lie. This fund is nothing but a slush fund that Congress raids to pay for other government expenditures. If private sector employers did the same thing with their companies' pension funds, they'd be placed in prison. The "privatization" plan proposed by Bush is merely an attempt by Wall Street brokerage firms and financial institutions to get in on the scam: grab a portion of a constant revenue stream (guaranteed by taxation) from which they can skim their commissions.
Daschle's "concern" over the Social Security system is a lie.
Bush's plan to Enronize the system is worse.
The American People need to wake up and put these liars and thieves in prison.
You do not appear to know anything about risk-sharing and insurance. Read up on that before you form opinions and, even worse, rant in such strong terms about the things you do not understand.
Neither does the Insurance Industry.
Their idea of "risk-sharing" is yet another Bush-sponsored theft from our Treasury, pushing the burden of "terrorism insurance" on the U.S. taxpayer.
Do your homework next time, and dont make this all seem like some Mexican plot. This country has paid foreign workers these benefits for decades.
... , with resources remaining, to continue.
I am for 100% IRA type accounts, Medical savings accounts, and a FLAT ncome tax.. otherwise.. Let the buyer beware of Trojan horses..
Quote me to back up your accusation, Buttboy.
You do YOUR homework before making such insinuations.
There is absolutely NO need for 20 "pacts".
There should only be ONE policy regarding foreign nationals and Social Security.
OK, I'll add teh insurance industry to the list: you know nothing about that either.
Why don't you stop ranting and start telling us something that you actually know?
Oh I agree. Mexican plot! HAhaha.
It's not like Mexico has dumped thousands, millions of their poor, uneducated, unskilled, on us. It's not like Mexico routinely brings in illegal drugs at an astronomical rate. It's not like Mexico is the worlds largest distributer of illegal drugs.
The Mexican government and it's people have nothing but respect for America, our laws, borders and our sovereignty.
Mexican plot! LOL! They are our best friends! A country we can look up to.
I favor the Flat income tax, but am beginning to view IRAs and "Medical Savings Accounts" as the Trojan horses that you mention.
Might as well toss in "Education" Savings accounts as well.
Dagnabit, It's MY doggone money and I should be able to save and invest it as I see fit.
All these so-called "savings accounts" do is postpone the tax burden contingent on letting the Federal Bureacracts dictate how much you can save/invest and the terms and conditions by which you can make withdrawels/transfers.
What a pile of BS.
I don't want my savings spread out over umpteen different accounts, having to consult a tax lawyer/accountant/financial adviser every time I make an investment. My time is better spent actually researching individual investments rather than worrying about all the goddam federal strings attached to them.
Bush should just simplify the tax code and abolish all these abominations. Just give me a flat tax with a LOWER tax rate. I can keep track of my own savings/investments in just two accounts: a simple checking/savings/credit account, and a brokerage account. The rest of that stuff is just overly complex bullcrap.
But yes, it is a Mexican thing. Regardless of how many treaties, agreements, etc., with whatever country - this is another Mexican demand that PRes. Bush would like to meet. There is no way around that. His history is all we need.
Now I don't know what the existing law is, but for Mexicans to come here and work (possibly legal aliens) and return to Mexico to receive SS is nothing new. It has been going on for years.
This has to be something new and different or they would not be sending up the trial balloon. I suspect this is for illegal aliens - just judging from the attitude of our President and his friend in Mexico. I would think Fox doesn't think he is getting enough American dollars. WE doubled our foreign aid - we have taken in many, many more of his people to support, they are sending back to Mexico monies that equal 1/3 of their economy, and still it is not enough. He sees that Americans sill have something left in their pockets, and wants it.
I disagree. Because SS is merely another tax on earned income (contrary to popular belief, SS money collected is comingled with money from the general fund; there is no SS "trust fund"), those who are legally working in this country should pay SS taxes just as they pay any other taxes. If they don't like it, they can return to their own country to work. Paying SS tax is just the price to pay for the privilege of working in this country. We don't have to let them in.
If you are a citizen of one of the countries listed below, you also may receive your payments as long as you are outside the U.S., unless you are receiving your payments as a dependent or survivor. In that case, there are additional requirements you have to meet-see Part 4.
| Albania Antigua and Barbuda Argentina Bahamas Barbados Belize Bolivia Bosnia-Herzegovina Brazil Burkina Faso Colombia Costa Rica Croatia Cyprus Czech Republic Denmark Dominica Dominican Republic Ecuador |
El Salvador Gabon Grenada Guatemala Guyana Hungary Iceland Ivory Coast Jamaica Jordan Latvia Liechtenstein Macedonia, Former Yugoslav Rep. of Malta Marshall Islands Mexico Micronesia, Fed. States of Monaco |
Nicaragua Palau Panama Peru Philippines Poland St. Kitts and Nevis St. Lucia Samoa (formerly Western Samoa) San Marino Slovak Republic Slovenia Trinidad-Tobago Turkey Uruguay Venezuela Yugoslavia, Fed. Rep. of (formerly Serbia & Montenegro) |
(This list is subject to change from time to time.)
If you are not a citizen of the U.S. or a citizen of one of the other countries listed in Parts 3-A or 3-B above, your payments will stop after you have been outside the U.S. for 6 full calendar months unless you meet one of the following exceptions:
you were eligible for monthly Social Security benefits for December 1956; or
you are in the active military or naval service of the U.S.; or
the worker on whose record your benefits are based had railroad work which was treated as covered employment by the Social Security program; or
the worker on whose record your benefits are based died while in the U.S. military service or as a result of a service-connected disability and was not dishonorably discharged; or
you are a resident of a country with which the U.S. has a Social Security agreement. Currently, these countries are:
|
Australia Austria |
Italy Korea (South) |
(This list is subject to change from time to time.)
However, the agreements with Austria, Belgium, Germany, Sweden and Switzerland permit you to receive benefits as a dependent or survivor of a worker while you reside in the foreign country only if the worker is a U.S. citizen or a citizen of your country of residence; or
you are a citizen of one of the countries listed below and the worker on whose record your benefits are based lived in the U.S. for at least 10 years or earned at least 40 earnings credits under the U.S. Social Security system. If you are receiving benefits as a dependent or survivor, see Part 4 for additional requirements.
| Afghanistan Australia Bangladesh Bhutan Botswana Burundi Cameroon Cape Verde Islands Central African Rep. Chad China, People's Rep. of Congo Rep. Ethiopia Fiji Gambia Ghana Haiti Honduras |
India Indonesia Kenya Laos Lebanon Lesotho Liberia Madagascar Malawi Malaysia Mali Mauritania Mauritius Morocco Myanmar Nepal Nigeria Pakistan St. Vincent & Grenadines |
Senegal Sierra Leone Singapore Solomon Islands Somali Dem. Rep. South Africa, Rep. of Sri Lanka Sudan Swaziland Taiwan Tanzania Thailand Togo Tonga Tunisia Uganda Yemen |
(This list is subject to change from time to time.)
If you are not a citizen of one of the countries listed above, you cannot use this exception.
If you are not a U.S. citizen and none of these exceptions applies to you, your payments will stop after you have been outside the U.S. for 6 full months. Once this happens, your payments cannot be started again until you come back and stay in the U.S. for a whole calendar month. This means you have to be in the U.S. on the first minute of the first day of a month and stay through the last minute of the last day of that month. In addition, you may be required to establish that you have been lawfully present in the U.S. for that full calendar month period. For more information, you may contact the nearest U.S. Embassy or consulate or Social Security office.
If you receive benefits as a dependent or survivor of the worker, special requirements may affect your right to receive Social Security payments while you are outside the U.S. If you are not a U.S. citizen, you must have lived in the U.S. for at least 5 years. During that 5 years, the family relationship on which benefits are based must have existed. For example, if you are receiving benefits as a spouse, you must have been married to the worker while living in the U.S. for at least 5 years.
Children who cannot meet the residency requirement on their own may be considered to meet it if it is met by the worker and other parent (if any). However, children adopted outside the U.S. will not be paid outside the U.S., even if the residency requirement is met.
The residency requirement will not apply to you if you meet any of the following conditions:
you were initially eligible for monthly benefits before January 1, 1985; or
you are entitled on the record of a worker who died while in the U.S. military service or as a result of a service-connected disease or injury; or
you are a citizen of one of the countries listed in Part 3-A; or
you are a resident of one of the countries with which the U.S. has a Social Security agreement (see Part 3-C).
I agree with you that they should pay. We already have the growing number of federal employees who are excepted from Social Security. Of course, the federal employees benefit from the confiscated Social Security taxes that the rest of us pay in.
Also, Americans don't have a high enough birthrate to keep this Ponzi scheme afloat. Mexican families have more children who can work and pay for aging baby boomers. I don't like Social Security, but since some of us have been paying forever and will never see the money, why not confiscate legal immigrants money as well? Maybe that will create another class of people interested in reform.
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