The Catholic Example

The New York Sun ^ | 12/31/02

[wideawake]

A big difference is that most Catholic school teachers are either young women fresh out of college who want to work for a few years before becoming homemakers, women who have gone back to teaching now that their children are school age (often teaching in the same school that their children attend) or homemakers whose children are now grown and who want to make a supplementary income.

Usually there is a husband who is the primary breadwinner.

By contrast, many public school teachers are resolutely single men and women in their thirties who want a guaranteed job for life without putting in too many hours. They are heavily unionized and extremely overpaid.

This may not apply to public school teachers in the American heartland - but it certainly applies to NYC teachers.

[governsleastgovernsbest]

Thanks for a great post. I have forwarded the article to members of our local school board and editors of our local newspaper.

And by the way, in our little burg, per pupil costs average about $13,000 per year, compared to less than $4-6,000 in the NYC Catholic schools!

[Textide]

A big difference is that most Catholic school teachers are either young women fresh out of college who want to work for a few years before becoming homemakers, women who have gone back to teaching now that their children are school age (often teaching in the same school that their children attend) or homemakers whose children are now grown and who want to make a supplementary income.

Don't forget the nuns! My second grade teacher, a nun, was quick with a ruler on the back of one's hand. She also had the superhuman ability to twist an apple in half with her bare hands. Great woman!

[wideawake]

When I was in Catholic grammar school I had approximately thirteen or fourteen teachers over nine years. Only two of them were nuns.

One of them was pretty good.

[Piquaboy]

What a big surprise that the Catholics could do it cheaper. I'll bet that they are not even union people either. Unforgivable!

[Straight Vermonter]

My child will be attending a Catholic High School next year. The teachers there do not fit the mold you have presented. As a matter of fact the majority of teachers there have advanced degrees in the subjects they teach, the teacher retention rate is >90%, and the average teacher has been ther 13 years. According to the schools recruitment materials their teachers make about 80% of what a similar public school teacher would make. They choose to accept the difference in salary because the students are there to learn and the job is more fun and rewarding.

My local high school spends $10,500 per student. I will have to spend $6,300 of my own money so that my child can attend this school. This despite living in the town with the highest property taxes in the state.

[Blue Collar Christian]

A major factor in the effectiveness of Catholic, or other Christian schools, is that the parents of the students in these private schools by and large tend to be more involved in their children's education and upbringing than the average citizen. That leads to better disciplined students that are much less disruptive in class.

And BTW, that voucher idea thankfully failed here in California. If you allow public money to fund private schools, the government will eventually demand a say in the curriculum or the withdrawel of the funds that would then be a vital part of the schools' budgets. Bye bye, bible study, chapel, etc.

[Blue Collar Christian]

I was conviced that nuns had eyes in the back of their heads under their veils. While writing at the chalkboard, they could name the kid goofing off and correct him without even turning around! BIONIC!

[1john2 3and4]

that voucher idea thankfully failed here in California. If you allow public money to fund private schools, the government will eventually demand a say in the curriculum

respectfully, i disagree

maybe im a bit "behind the curve" on this, if so, i readily accept correction, BUT, a voucher lets me keep my money which i then choose to spend anyway i want.

[ResultsNetwork]

You need to look more closely at the numbers... 1st year Public school teachers in Orange County CA make between $35K and $42K, private school teachers around here make about $30K. When you subtract the $3K to $5K EACH public school teacher has to spend on supplies each year because "there's no money" in the public schools, the salaries are almost the same. Put another way, if there are 30 kids in a class and we're spending $8K per kid per year, we should be able to easily afford $50K per year for great teachers.

The question is, where does the other $200K per year per classroom go! ($240K - $40K salary) The only answer is that governments just don't know how to deliver services like education and the ONLY answer is get them out of the business. The only answer is vouchers for every K through 12th grade student. Could you imagine what would happen if we unleashed the private sector on this problem...!

[victim soul]

it's the bureaucra, the liberal death wish, and apathy of parents that is killing the education of our children.

Parental rights to educate their children with their value systems are removed by state mandate especially for those who cannot afford an alternate educational system.

God bless Catholic schools!

[Valin]

And by the way, in our little burg, per pupil costs average about $13,000 per year,

Here in Mpls we'er at $11,000. Now I wouldn't mind spending the money if the kids came out of school knowing something, other than PC.

[Republic If You Can Keep It]

If you allow public money to fund private schools, the government will eventually demand a say in the curriculum

Really?

Are the Feds dictating the curriculum at Notre Dame because of the GI Bill?

Hmmmmmmmm?

[Blue Collar Christian]

I'd like to think it would work that way. If your voucher innitiative goes to ballot and passes, what's to prevent those opposed to our Christian opinions against evolution, safe sex, abortion, etc. from getting to ballot a revocation of this voucher in the future after putting up a killer campaign, happily funded by rich, elite, limosine liberals? The public may be mostly comprised of people that would be simpathetic to the fact that citizens paying property taxes to support public schools are basically paying for their children's education twice, but those same people are not believers, and that will be played against us.

[Blue Collar Christian]

My G.I. bill money is my benefit for serving this country, not public funds. I can even use it for trade school to learn gunsmithing, but you can bet there are people who would like to put an end to that. Also, more impressionable students are those in elementary and high schools where current political correctness can be more solidly installed along with historical revision.

[yankeedame]

Put another way, if there are 30 kids in a class and we're spending $8K per kid per year, we should be able to easily afford $50K per year for great teachers.

Yes, but there's a point where the lure of higher pay just won't do the trick. We all know there are schools out there where no teacher in his right mind-- esp. a quality teacher-- wouldn't teach, even if offered $200K a year.

[1john2 3and4]

what's to prevent ....revocation of this voucher in the future ....?

ummm, the truth?

lol, sorry for being a bit flippant, but that's still not even close to a valid reason for NOT allowing me to keep my own money....fear of future revocation based on some liberal lie/smear campaign....hey! bring it on! just let me choose!

[xkaydet65]

Have you seen that Saint John's Univ in NYC had to drop its Div 3 Football program to keep its athletic department in line with Title IX. The alternative is to lose all fed funds including Pell Grants, student loand, and G.I. Bill.

[Blue Collar Christian]

You go ahead and choose, God bless your cause. I pray you don't have to make the adjustments I believe will come with the public that votes wanting your kids to be taught things their way. They can be just as dedicated to their cause as you are yours.

When the voucher innitiative was on the ballot here, this was the argument used by those opposed; Children will be taught by teachers that are fundamental Christians impressing their belief system on a much larger segment of the public. Maybe here in California I get a distorted impression of the desires of the public, being how liberals grow like weeds here. Believe me, I would like to at least be able to right off my son's tuition like interest on my home loan, and the voucher would be even better. Perhaps I'm tired of seeing the left prevail where we all know it is destroying our country.
I believe that the private schools would cave to the pressure to modify their curriculum rather than give up the funds provided by the vouchers. Perhaps where you live "it will never happen here." If we don't let the public funds into our private schools, the public cannot have a say in our affairs, period.