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State GPS Tracking Your Mileage and Your Movements
CNSNews.com ^ | 01/02/2003 | Marc Morano

Posted on 01/02/2003 3:43:33 PM PST by EBUCK

State GPS Tracking Your Mileage and Your Movements

Marc Morano, CNSNews.com Thursday, Jan. 2, 2003

CNSNews.com – If a proposal by an Oregon State task force becomes law, the government would be able to use satellite equipment to keep track of each driver's mileage and tax that driver accordingly in order to pay for road repairs. Even the state administrator who proposed the plan thinks citizens "should be concerned" about the possibility of civil liberties violations. And Chris Edwards, director of fiscal policy at the free market Cato Institute told CNSNews.com , "I think it's nutty and I don't think it's ever going to happen."

"I don't think Americans are ready to be subjected to that type of civil liberties intrusion," Edwards explained, "where government tracks them around wherever they drive."

Edwards believes the Global Positioning Satellite (GPS) mileage-tracking proposal is the result of overzealous government bureaucrats.

"This is an example of economists gone wild," Edwards said. "Economists often think of these schemes that seem efficient on paper, but they don't think about the real world and the civil liberties aspect of things."

Jim Whitty, administrator of Oregon's Road User Fee Task Force, in an exclusive interview with CNSNews.com , called the GPS mileage tracking tax proposal necessary because "it costs a certain amount to drive on the road per vehicle and people ought to pay their fair share of their usage."

Democratic Gov. John Kitzhaber and the state legislature set up the Road User Fee Task Force in November 2001 to explore methods of financing transportation costs.

Noting that gas taxes are unfair because of the large differences in the fuel economy of automobiles, Whitty and the task force explored alternative taxing methods to ensure equity among drivers. Seventy-percent of Oregon's road maintenance revenues currently come from federal and state gas taxes.

Commission members rejected the idea of using automobile odometer readings to track mileage because they figured some people would accumulate out-of-state mileage. The idea of raising the existing gasoline tax was also turned down because with automobiles becoming so fuel efficient, gas tax revenues are projected to dry up.

"If everybody had high mileage cars, our road system would fall apart" from lack of revenue, Whitty said.

'Vehicle Miles Traveled Fee'

The solution seemed clear to Whitty.

"You go to technology and you look and say we can calculate mileage electronically, so it can be paid electronically ... That is where the GPS device came in," Whitty said.

Whitty envisions a system that would either send auto owners a monthly bill for their miles or set up gas stations so they could read the GPS transponders and collect the tax during fueling stops. The new tax per mile would be called a VMT fee or Vehicle Miles Traveled fee.

Whitty would also like to see other technologies besides GPS considered.

"There is an odometer sensor which can calculate mileage and then data can be transferred by radio frequencies to a fuel pump. We are going to be looking at both," Whitty explained.

Whitty believes that despite the fears of potential civil liberties violations, the new method of calculating road taxes is needed to make transportation taxes fairer.

"[The task force] wanted it to look like the gas tax used to look like back around 1960 when all cars virtually got the same miles per gallon," Whitty said. "What has happened though is that in the 70s, 80s and 90s, some cars became more fuel efficient and others didn't.

"There was no longer a correlation between miles driven and revenues raised," Whitty explained.

When asked about possible civil liberties violations, Whitty admitted that people should be cautious about the state's use of the mileage tracking technology.

"They should be concerned and they should watch this and make sure that is doesn't turn into such a thing," Whitty said.

However, "that is not the purpose of this fee," he added. "The state transportation department has no interest in knowing where people are going either currently or after the fact."

Whitty believes police may ultimately end up using the GPS data for criminal investigations.

"If there was a police necessity perhaps, but we are not looking at that. That is not our concern," he said.

Edwards remains unconvinced.

"You can say it's not the purpose, but later on it will be abused and expanded," Edwards said.

"We don't need the government to have Big Brother precise tracking systems to make sure the highways are precisely paid by precisely the right people who use them," Edwards continued. "The gas tax now is roughly efficient."

Edwards also dismissed Whitty's concerns about dwindling revenues from gas taxes.

"The private sector is doing more with less. I don't see why the government sector also cannot continue to improve its productivity," he said.

Edwards also believes the cost of the GPS proposal would be too high considering "all the bureaucracy costs of setting up and installing the system, hiring satellite time, running the computers and having all the analysts looking at data."

"Do we really need all that? Edwards asked.

Copyright CNSNews.com


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; US: Oregon
KEYWORDS: control; gps; population
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
Which state is going to get the tax revenue using this approach?

its not spelled 'state' its spelled 'satrapy'.

121 posted on 01/02/2003 5:52:16 PM PST by Dr Warmoose
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To: wcbtinman
Sooner. The commercial vehicles in this country are under attack by the DOT to install "black boxes" in order to monitor location, speed, idle time, driver hours of service, origin points etc.... Once this system is set up, then the transition to private passenger cars is inevitable.

Don't forget the radio controlled switch that allows the authorities to disable the engine.

For the children...

122 posted on 01/02/2003 5:54:13 PM PST by Dr Warmoose
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To: Myrddin
Thanks you for all of your information...and I assure you that it won't be used wrongly upon others...low power and minimal R umbrella (10metersq).

Thanks again,

EBUCK
123 posted on 01/02/2003 5:57:25 PM PST by EBUCK
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To: Gritty
The problem here in Oregon is that we won't approve another tax hike...we're bent over as it is..

They have to create a crisis, not of their doing of course, that needs to be rectified. And the crisis is...Fuel efficient cars are cheating the state.

Now alterior motives could run for miles..

EBUCK
124 posted on 01/02/2003 5:59:11 PM PST by EBUCK
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To: yooper
We get to use them (studs) from Oct to April I think.

EBUCK
125 posted on 01/02/2003 6:00:09 PM PST by EBUCK
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To: yooper
I don't think anyone really has a handle on this. It makes sense that trucks would just naturally create more wear and tear on the roads than an automobile, but consider the purpose of the truck. One truck delivers many times more passengers or freight than any automobile. Heavy trucks also pay much more fuel taxes, due to a higher percentage (in FL, its about 48 cents per gallon) of the price of diesel fuel being highway taxes, than any gasoline powered vehicle.

The correct solution is to build roads capable of handling the loads. I think that most roads are designed as such, but all of the finished roads that I see are later sampled and found to be built in a substandard manner. There are thousands of DOT vs Contractor lawsuits all over America over just such problems. I know of at least two major projects here in central FL (Interstates) where contractors are being sued by DOT after completion of the project with areas of these roads requiring significant remediation efforts within weeks of them opening the road.

126 posted on 01/02/2003 6:00:56 PM PST by wcbtinman
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To: Dr Warmoose
"Don't forget the radio controlled switch that allows the authorities to disable the engine..."

Although the authorities don't have it, yet, such a device exists on newer Class 8 trucks in the form of engine and drivetrain telemetry that can be accessed and adjusted in real time by the engine manufacturers or service centers. In some trucks, the on board computer is able to detect or recieve via satellite, evidence of a severe engine (and I assume a drivetrain) problem and with a short notification period to the driver through an audible and visual warning, shut the engine down.

127 posted on 01/02/2003 6:11:51 PM PST by wcbtinman
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To: EBUCK
Forgive my ignorance, but a GPS is a receiver, not a transmitter. I heartily oppose every aspect of this proposal, but one might imagine a GPS unit with limited software that does (so they would claim) nothing more than integrate the mileage traveled while within a given boundary, kind of like the ones that probably exist to tell you how many miles you hiked in a day.

It would seem doable, if you trusted the manufacturer no to let it record any additional data that could be downloaded later. Let's start by putting them in all the cars (personal and business) of the governor, state police, and transportation bureaucrats, and let the downloading of data be done by an independent company with a charter to publish every byte. We'd learn more about the system that way.
128 posted on 01/02/2003 6:46:59 PM PST by Atlas Sneezed
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To: Beelzebubba
As interpreted in my post above, the same result could be achieved with an inertial system, but probably at more expense.

I think that a mileage tax would make more sense if you did it with an ODO check. But then again, why not just cover it with higher gas taxes, instead of creating a whole new bureaucracy? (Which is probaly the reaction they're going for.)
129 posted on 01/02/2003 6:49:50 PM PST by Atlas Sneezed
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To: Dr Warmoose
its not spelled 'state' its spelled 'satrapy'.

Beware, the "eye of the king" is watching. Genuflect when you mention his name.

130 posted on 01/02/2003 6:54:58 PM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Beelzebubba
You're not ignorant, that scent was emenating from my end...


"Let's start by putting them in all the cars (personal and business) of the governor, state police, and transportation bureaucrats, and let the downloading of data be done by an independent company with a charter to publish every byte. "

Sounds great to me but I'm betting that it would only happen after they submit to UA's!

EBUCK
131 posted on 01/02/2003 6:56:27 PM PST by EBUCK
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To: Beelzebubba
Well, we've been resisting new/greater taxes over here for a while with quite a bit of success.

As a matter of fact, there is a special ballot coming up on the 28th to raise taxes that is expected to fail.

I believe that they are attempting to create a fault in the system (not theirs of course) that requires new methods. I thinnk that's called the "end around".

EBUCK
132 posted on 01/02/2003 6:58:40 PM PST by EBUCK
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To: Squantos
Thats dumb, then they wouldn't know where you are all the time... </sarcasm>
133 posted on 01/02/2003 6:59:14 PM PST by Axenolith
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To: yooper
...semi's will cause worse damage in a much shorter time period, and they are not paying the amount of taxes necessary to account for the amount of damage they are doing.

When I lived in Florida, the Florida Turnpike (a toll road) used a card system instead of today's pay booths every few miles. The cards had different rates based on the number of axles on the car. A big-rig has 6 axles as opposed to a passenger car which has 2. A double big-rig has up to 9 (I'm thinking the cab has 1 front 2 rear, the load has 1 front 2 rear).

Certainly, a vehicle with 6 axles causes more damage than one with only 2.

-PJ

134 posted on 01/02/2003 10:19:38 PM PST by Political Junkie Too
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To: EBUCK
Robo-Cop incarnate hell...

Hypothetical situation..

You post to FR regularly, you are on the list no doubt about it.

Your GPS ID is called up 400,000 times a day to "check on your activities"

You stop in at a buddies house to BS and watch the game, he's on the list too!! (of course without the 4th, USA Patriot act, you don't have the right to know)

You guys get raided for subversive activities. Never to be heard from again, off to Siberia you go for re-education.

I actually thought about posting a similar hypothetical, but the recollection of that rental car company turned my attention towards the obvious revenue-generating possibilities. What you describe is not outside the realm of possibility, though.

As I said, this has the potential to go *way* beyond mere road-use tax calculations. In fact, the system would likely be prohibitively expensive if it was used only for that purpose. I'm sure that "RoboCop" will eventually be tasked with monitoring our activities, in addition to citing speeders, gross pollutors, you name it.

135 posted on 01/03/2003 7:30:41 AM PST by Charles Martel
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To: Squantos; EBUCK; All
"In my state we have the vehicle inspection stickers that must be renewed each year. If they are gonna tax me based on my annual mileage then just look at the gosh damn sticker with last years mileage on it and do the math versus making me also pay for a GPS-SAT WhatchmacallitPOS Socialist tewl !"

There are no vehicle inspections in Oregon except in Portland for emissions.

If they banned snow tires, road damage would go down dramatically!

136 posted on 01/03/2003 12:43:05 PM PST by blackie
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To: KneelBeforeZod
"geez, you mean that lady I work with that lives in California but registers her car in Oregon for $40/year might get caught. poor baby."

Wrong, it's $15/year for cars/suv's/pickups and $9/year for motorcycles.

137 posted on 01/03/2003 12:52:08 PM PST by blackie
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To: EBUCK
Repent, Harlequin, Said the Ticktockman
138 posted on 01/03/2003 12:55:19 PM PST by denydenydeny
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To: EBUCK
Resistance is futile....
139 posted on 01/10/2004 8:06:45 PM PST by FrontlinesofFreedom (Pax Americanus)
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To: Reaganwuzthebest

140 posted on 01/10/2004 8:16:03 PM PST by FrontlinesofFreedom (Pax Americanus)
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