NFL: Giants would have been flagged if they spiked it

AP Via ESPN ^ | 1-6-03 | ANON

[Pharmboy]

NEW YORK -- Giants holder Matt Allen could not have spiked the botched snap on the final play of New York's loss to the San Francisco 49ers.

It's against the rules.

Mike Pereira, the NFL supervisor of officials, confirmed Monday that Allen would not have been allowed to immediately spike the ball because it was a long snap. The only time a player can spike the ball is when he takes the snap from under the center.

With six seconds left Sunday and the Giants trailing 39-38, Matt Bryant lined up to try a potential game-winning 41-yard field goal. The snap from newly signed Trey Junkin was in the dirt. Allen fumbled the ball, then made a desperation pass downfield to what turned out to be an ineligible receiver, guard Rich Seubert.

Fox commentator Cris Collinsworth said at the time that since it was third down, Allen could have spiked the ball, giving the Giants another chance at a kick. Afterward, on the Fox postgame show, other commentators agreed.

Pereira said the only other option would have been to throw to an eligible receiver.

[Physicist]

Here's what I want to know: when the Giants intercepted that last 2-point conversion, why did the whistle blow? In college football that's a returnable ball; is it different in the NFL? Those two points could perhaps have won it for the Giants.

[LdSentinal]

What was the offsetting penalty? There's no pass interference if the pass is to an inelligible receiver. Was there a hold or an offsides?

Actually, there was no off-setting penalties. The NFL, however, has told the New York Giants organization that a pass interference penalty should have been called since Siber (sp?) was lined up as an eligible player. This would have resulted in off-setting penalties and since the game cannot end on off-setting penalties, the Giants should have gotten an un-timed down from the Niner 28-yard line.

[Alberta's Child]

Any defensive penalty would have been offset by the illegal man down field, play dead, no time left on the clock, game over.

I'd have to see a reference to a specific rule on that. Someone else here thinks that the game cannot end on offsetting penalties.

[Stingray51]

The game was good but I thought the Miller Lite commercial with the two women fighting was even better.

[hchutch]

McKinnon wasn't bad, but Waddle's a receiver I'd build a passing game around - hands, guts, clutch performances, and this seeming inability to understand the word quit. Heck, Waddle even burned Deion Sanders once - not bad for a guy who ran the 40 in 4.79 seconds.

[lepton]

I would look for a Dent-type pass rusher first.

Dent? Arthur Dent? He's a knee-biter.

[Hatteras]

According to the NFL rules, the play is dead on an extra point conversion the moment the defense takes control of the ball or it leaves the field of play.

[Poohbah]

The Giants should've activated the Infinite Improbability Drive, that would've won the game for 'em!

[discostu]

Problem is screen passes, a lot of screens aren't actually to guys across the line of scrimage, but for purposes of dropped balls they're still considered passes (so play is dead when the ball hits the ground, rather than it beinga fumble and a live ball). So any that would be considered a pass if only it had been caught, is considered a pass if it's not caught, and therefore not intential grounding. I think the refs are FAR too friendly with judging a pass "catchable" when it comes to grounding. Of course if I were king there would be no throwing it away, inside or outside the tightend box I don't care, throw it too somebody or suffer the consequences.

[walkingdead]

"The game was good but I thought the Miller Lite commercial with the two women fighting was even better."

My gosh I almost forgot about that. I remember thinking that was the GREATEST commercial I'd ever seen. Hopefully we'll be seeing that one alot more often throughout the playoffs.

[My2Cents]

You absolutely have to keep the pressure on

That's where Bill Calahan has made the difference this year. I love the way he rolled up some of the scores earlier in the season.

[Alberta's Child]

When the Houston Oilers gave up that huge lead (32 points, I think) to the Bills back in the early 1990s, they fired their defensive coordinator about an hour after the game ended.

Strahan was not really the problem. The Giants rushed four linemen almost all game, with almost no blitzes, stunts, etc. The lack of imagination on that team is unbelievable, and it has been the case with them for years.

[My2Cents]

Your graphic looks like a urinal cake!

All right, touche'! Good come back.

(Gotta love the Broncos-Raiders games!)

Especially this past season.

[Doc Savage]

Barney, I may be wrong about this but I don't believe a "snap" MUST occur through the legs in the so-called "standard-down" position. If this guy was so bad I would have had a good ball handler stand sideways and one hand a second attempt. I recall this being done in the 30's and forties, but of course no one does it that way today because of the nose tackle. Of course, it might be illegal now. They've changed the rules so much it's hard to recognize the game any more. Quarterbacks in my day FEARED intentional grounding. Now its become a laugher!

[Mrs.Liberty]

Per this link, Saubert was eligible and did report in as such. Pass interference should have been called on the 49ers, but was not. However, #65 of the Giants, Hopkins, was ineligible.

[discostu]

In the NFL extra points are not "live balls", for most purposes opposing players are considered to be part of the ground, and once that ball wasn't caught by a Niner the play was over. One of the rules I'd like to see changed.

[walkingdead]

Heck ya My2Cents, it's been a great year thus far! I think we're the only two Raider fans here though. Maybe one more, and my how people hate us. But so goes the life of a true Raider fan....

[amused]

WFAN may have gotten this story wrong. The intended receiver on that play was an offensive guard, so he was clearly ineligible unless he had lined up as an end and was announced as an eligible receiver.

NJ.com has just put up a blip from AP Here's the gist

After a videotape review of the 41-yard attempt with six seconds left, NFL Director of Officiating Mike Pereira determined:

• The Giants' Tam Hopkins, No. 65, lined up as the left guard and was illegally downfield on the pass. All three flags thrown by the officials were for that penalty.
• Rich Seubert, No. 69 and normally a guard, lined up as an eligible receiver on the play. He reported to the officiating crew before the game that he would man that position on field goals.
• 49ers defensive end Chike Okeafor interfered with Seubert when he was attempting to catch Allen's pass. No defensive pass interference penalty was called.

"If defensive pass interference had been called," an NFL statement explained, "there would have been offsetting penalties (ineligible receiver against the Giants and pass interference against the 49ers), with the down replayed at the original line of scrimmage, the San Francisco 23-yard line. Although time had expired, a game cannot end with offsetting penalties. Thus, the game would have been extended by one untimed down."

Now I think I may get sick.

[ThinkingMan]

Thanks- always a fun rivalry. (except that inept debacle on Monday night this year- man the Broncs made the Raiders look good!)

[oyez]

I hope there is an angry mob with pitch forks waiting back at the airport in New York.